Grey Imports

a1ex2001 · 12 Jan 2015 at 23:34

D.P. said:
The issue is it is very unclear what Nikon or canon will do. They almost certainly don't adhere to any warranty so at best you have to pay for the repair or send it back to HK. However,there have been a number of cases where they have refused any kind of repair even at cost unless a valid UK receipt was presented.

It is all a bit of a gamble, but at bets you end up with a camera with a similar warranty to a second hand camera, but you pay more typically.

There is also a it difference between Nikon and canon. Canon seem more lenient and are more likely to repair grey imports, Nikon are very strict. Even then there are differences between regions, e.g. EU law forces Nikon to provide some kind of warranty even to grey market goods under certain conditions, but in USA and Australia Nikon will tell you to get lost if you can't show proper receipt of origin form within the region.

Again the scaremongering all the big grey importers offer their own warranty with local repair which is much better than buying second hand from that perspective and as said a I had a repair carried out by a canon authorised centre without any issue. If you need a valid UK receipt surely that rules out second hand kit being repaired as well as I've never received any original receipts except for my flash.

D.P. · 13 Jan 2015 at 00:50

a1ex2001 said:
Again the scaremongering all the big grey importers offer their own warranty with local repair which is much better than buying second hand from that perspective and as said a I had a repair carried out by a canon authorised centre without any issue. If you need a valid UK receipt surely that rules out second hand kit being repaired as well as I've never received any original receipts except for my flash.

If you buy second hand from a reputable second hand dealer then they offer a 6-12month warranty.

If you buy a Nikon camera as a grey import then it is unlikely you can even pay Nikon to repair it.

http://www.bythom.com/warranty.htm

Ergo. I would go second hand.

Oggie · 13 Jan 2015 at 06:27

D.P. said:
If you buy second hand from a reputable second hand dealer then they offer a 6-12month warranty.

If you buy a Nikon camera as a grey import then it is unlikely you can even pay Nikon to repair it.

http://www.bythom.com/warranty.htm

Ergo. I would go second hand.

That's probably relevant if you happen to live in the US.

a1ex2001 · 13 Jan 2015 at 12:53

D.P. said:
If you buy second hand from a reputable second hand dealer then they offer a 6-12month warranty.

If you buy a Nikon camera as a grey import then it is unlikely you can even pay Nikon to repair it.

http://www.bythom.com/warranty.htm

Ergo. I would go second hand.

Oggie said:
That's probably relevant if you happen to live in the US.

as above, still not seen a scrap of evidence for Nikon UK or their authorised partners refusing to repair a grey import, AJ Johnstone make no mention of it on their site an neither do fixation even Nikon have no mention of grey imports on theirs.

dtokez · 14 Jan 2015 at 10:21

I have bought a 7d body and a sigma 10-20 from probably the most well known Chinese site, no problems what so ever, tracked all the way here and arrived within a few days. Only pain is the non English charger but they sent a UK converter plug with it

Phal · 14 Jan 2015 at 14:51

The two grey market cameras I bought in the past even came with a UK charger

D.P. · 14 Jan 2015 at 16:01

a1ex2001 said:
as above, still not seen a scrap of evidence for Nikon UK or their authorised partners refusing to repair a grey import, AJ Johnstone make no mention of it on their site an neither do fixation even Nikon have no mention of grey imports on theirs.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52976296

However Nikon said they couldn't guarantee to repair goods purchased outside the UK.

https://www.parkcameras.com/thinking-of-going-grey

Should you wish to purchase from outside of the UK, your product may well not come with a valid UK warranty or offer you the chance to benefit from a particular manufacturers extended warranty. This will lead to the potentially costly exercise of securing a third party warranty.

http://www.wexphotographic.com/?/aboutus/no-grey-imports.html

in some cases the manufacturer will not support the standard warranty
Some manufacturers promote additional years of warranty in the UK – a grey import would not qualify for this support
In many instances you will not be eligible for a cashback promotion if that is run by the UK office of that manufacturer
Sometimes manufacturers don't even want to undertake chargeable repairs on grey imports

The thing is Nikon is inconsistent in how they handle grey imports. Some people have sent in items and got repairs done for free under a pseudo international warranty agreement, others have been told they wont get their camera fixed even if they pay and the camera has to be sent to Nikon HK for repair.
You have to consider that Nikon UK is a separate business entity to Nikon HK. Nikon UK have business goal to meet, such as profitability. If they don't want to take on the cost of repairing a grey market item they dont have to. Furthermore, if they want to dissuade people form buying grey market by not repairing them even when charging then they are free to do that. They don't get a benefit by helping Nikon HK. IF Nikon UK help Nikon HK make sales but pay for Nikon HK repair costs then it isn't good business.

Personally I think Nikon's whole model is here is backwards and broken. Canon's is slightly better but in this day and age there really should be no difference beyond what manual and charger plugs you get.

Some of the other differences that aren't talked about so much is some regions offer longer warranties. Nikon Switzerland gives 3 years on top of the standard 1 year international warranty on lenses. If you buy from HK then Nikon CH wont touch your gear.

When I buy second hand form a shop then I can try before I buy so I never even have to test the warranty and returns, the shop then offers 6-12 month return period. That is better than a grey import, cheaper, legal, and helps support my high street camera shop.

a1ex2001 · 14 Jan 2015 at 16:46

D.P. said:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52976296

https://www.parkcameras.com/thinking-of-going-grey

http://www.wexphotographic.com/?/aboutus/no-grey-imports.html

The thing is Nikon is inconsistent in how they handle grey imports. Some people have sent in items and got repairs done for free under a pseudo international warranty agreement, others have been told they wont get their camera fixed even if they pay and the camera has to be sent to Nikon HK for repair.
You have to consider that Nikon UK is a separate business entity to Nikon HK. Nikon UK have business goal to meet, such as profitability. If they don't want to take on the cost of repairing a grey market item they dont have to. Furthermore, if they want to dissuade people form buying grey market by not repairing them even when charging then they are free to do that. They don't get a benefit by helping Nikon HK. IF Nikon UK help Nikon HK make sales but pay for Nikon HK repair costs then it isn't good business.

Personally I think Nikon's whole model is here is backwards and broken. Canon's is slightly better but in this day and age there really should be no difference beyond what manual and charger plugs you get.

Some of the other differences that aren't talked about so much is some regions offer longer warranties. Nikon Switzerland gives 3 years on top of the standard 1 year international warranty on lenses. If you buy from HK then Nikon CH wont touch your gear.

When I buy second hand form a shop then I can try before I buy so I never even have to test the warranty and returns, the shop then offers 6-12 month return period. That is better than a grey import, cheaper, legal, and helps support my high street camera shop.

Park and Wex lol, tak about two companies trying to protect there market share hardly independent impartial with points and still everything is caveated with maybe/possibly/might.

If Nikon and there authorised repair centres in the UK were refusing to do paid repair the internet would be alive with stories yet I've never read a single one and as I have said I've read the t&c's on Nikon UK's site and two of there authorised partners and not found any mention of reusing to work on grey imports.

Everyone knows the status of the warranties it's the risk you take to save money going grey.

There really doesn't seem to be any evidence to back up your point of view here except some scare mongering by retailers with a vested interest.

D.P. · 14 Jan 2015 at 17:02

a1ex2001 said:
Park and Wex lol, tak about two companies trying to protect there market share hardly independent impartial with points and still everything is caveated with maybe/possibly/might.

If Nikon and there authorised repair centres in the UK were refusing to do paid repair the internet would be alive with stories yet I've never read a single one and as I have said I've read the t&c's on Nikon UK's site and two of there authorised partners and not found any mention of reusing to work on grey imports.

Everyone knows the status of the warranties it's the risk you take to save money going grey.

There really doesn't seem to be any evidence to back up your point of view here except some scare mongering by retailers with a vested interest.

Straight from nikon Europea (Nikon UK is a subsidary of Nikon euroep:
https://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com.../5409/~/what-does-"grey-market"-product-mean?

What does owning a "Grey Market" Nikon product mean to you?
Nikon European offices cannot provide any technical support or warranty service for Grey Market product, additionally they may not perform any fee-based repair work on Grey Market products. Contact the reseller or importer of your Grey Market products for warranty and service information as well as software updates and downloads

Officially, they don't have to touch your grey market camera.

Admittedly, there isn't much fuss over Nikon UK refusing to repair grey market, however, there are loads of US People that have been told that Nikon USA willnot repair their camera sicne it is not an official US sourced part.

Nikon US and Nikon UK have the same official policy, not to touch grey market gear even if paid. Historically Nikon UK has unofficially accepted repairs at cost but that doesn't mean that they always have or always will do this in the future.

At the end of the day as a best case scenario you can pay Nikon UK to repair your grey market camera - that is no different to a second hand camera. A grey market camera you may be able to send the camera back to the retailer but then you are dealing with a HK based seller and most of your European rights are diminished. With a second hand camera from a good shop you can send the camera back to the shop for a warranty.

Both options give about the same amount of support, but one is cheaper, legal, try before you buy, and has a physical shop you can just walk in to.

mrgubby · 14 Jan 2015 at 22:10

Grey is NOT illegal, "Grey" is a term used to describe goods that have not been imported through the "Official" channel. I bought my 7D "Grey", it came with a VAT receipt and a 3 year UK warranty.

Nikon etc can refuse to repair any camera/lens that is outside of their warranty but you can always get it repaired elsewhere.

D.P. · 14 Jan 2015 at 22:21

mrgubby said:
Grey is NOT illegal, "Grey" is a term used to describe goods that have not been imported through the "Official" channel. I bought my 7D "Grey", it came with a VAT receipt and a 3 year UK warranty.

Nikon etc can refuse to repair any camera/lens that is outside of their warranty but you can always get it repaired elsewhere.

Grey import is not necessarily illegal, but the typical case is people buy from outside the EU and don't pay VAT, that is why it is cheaper. If your are paying UK VAT on top then the price difference is negligible and second hand really is the way to go if you want to save money.

mrgubby · 14 Jan 2015 at 22:55

My 7D & 50D before that were bought "Grey" in the UK, in each case I saved £200 (ish) compared to the "official" sales channels. When I was buying my 7D I tried my local shop, the manager told me that he could get 7Ds cheaper from a grey shop than direct from Canon UK !

You're correct that many people buy from overseas without paying tax which IS illegal and is damaging to the UK photo industry.

peige · 15 Jan 2015 at 08:13

mrgubby said:
You're correct that many people buy from overseas without paying tax which IS illegal and is damaging to the UK photo industry.

I'm stuggling to see how not paying tax on a camera damages the uk photo industry. Sure, it "damages" the amount of tax our government is taking but how does that affect canon or nikon?

mrgubby · 15 Jan 2015 at 09:46

peige said:
I'm stuggling to see how not paying tax on a camera damages the uk photo industry. Sure, it "damages" the amount of tax our government is taking but how does that affect canon or nikon?

Grey Importers & Official channels compete against each other but neither can compete against tax free "smuggled" goods. Every UK sale that is lost puts a nail in the coffin of local shops

*Bit dramatic but that's the rough idea

**But I have to say that we do seem to be ripped of in the UK

Energize · 19 Jan 2015 at 09:30

Grey importing is the moral thing to do, every less penny paid is tax is less money funding an oppressive government regime where people are prosecuted for their lifestyle choices.

a1ex2001 · 19 Jan 2015 at 13:13

Energize said:
Grey importing is the moral thing to do, every less penny paid is tax is less money funding an oppressive government regime where people are prosecuted for their lifestyle choices.

Lol, nothing like a GD style over reaction popping up in another section of the forum!

I figure HM Customs and Revenue don't care abut the lost tax on camera imports or they would crack down on them which would be ridiculously easy all digital revs stuff and I'm guessing most of the other grey importers follows the same delivery route and all they would need to do is sit on it for a month picking up everything and slapping a tax bill on it.

deshepherd · 19 Jan 2015 at 13:21

a1ex2001 said:
I figure HM Customs and Revenue don't care abut the lost tax on camera imports or they would crack down on them which would be ridiculously easy all digital revs stuff and I'm guessing most of the other grey importers follows the same delivery route and all they would need to do is sit on it for a month picking up everything and slapping a tax bill on it.

What could be more effective would be to monitor shipments for a couple of months the announce that they've done this andif people come forward and pay the retired tax and duty then they'll be given an amnesty from prosecution (remember if you receive something from overseas you are legally responsible for ensuring all tax has been paid on it so not telling HMRC that your "$30 gift" was actually worth 10x more than that is technically a criminal offence)

Energize · 20 Jan 2015 at 04:47

a1ex2001 said:
Lol, nothing like a GD style over reaction popping up in another section of the forum!

Hey, it wouldn't be OCUK without it, seriously though, I don't consider it immoral when one considers what the tax funds.

My experience of grey imports has been great, I bought my D610 from the "P" place, and even if you added 20% VAT it was still considerably cheaper than Amazon so don't know what that's about.