Guild Wars 2

[bhavv]

I didnt say they dont care about money.

I'm saying exactly what arena net have said that they make more than enough money from their current business model, and they do not need to change it any of the ways that you think they will.

How about you grow up and stop whining about things that havnt even happened yet, and never will happen?

Also by your logic, if every company only cares about money, then WoW would have become FTP a long time with a huge cash store full of ingame advantages as this method would rake in much more money than fees do.

I'm just discussing how these businesses work.

Yet you have zero understanding or knowledge on how they work. A 6 year old would probably understand 'these businesses' better than you seem to be able to.

if it was as successful as Guild Wars 1, something they want to strive beyond.

And they are striving beyond that by having created a game that caters to a lot of different interests. They are making a game that appeals to both GW players, and traditional MMO players, while sticking to their skill > time played idea, and never selling pay to win advantages.

 

[ChrisJSY]

Your opinion, which is proven completely wrong by Arenanets first game, Guild Wars 1.

Which is proved completely wrong by every game that had a prior game and caved in. Yeah it works both ways, you're such a fan boy you can't even logically argue.
Look at bioware, they used to be really good and now they're just another EA look alike.

Ban for stirring stuff again to be honest.

 

[Robbo]

I think I'll just give your posts a miss bhavv, you're embarrassingly blinkered. Feel free to ignore mine too, you don't seem to be able to read them anyway.

I'll save my efforts for discussing the game with the more mature members of the forum who don't spit bile at people over silly little things.

 

[bhavv]

Which is proved completely wrong by every game that had a prior game and caved in.

You mean every game that had a prior game and was then bought by EA.

 

[Fenris]

Bhaav we have been here before, stop whinging and let people discuss things without slinging insults around if they so much as cough in the games direction.

Robo is being realistic, the F2P model can only exist as long as people are buying the game as well as buying stuff in game, with GW1 this was not such a big deal because it was many times smaller and cheaper, GW2 is a major title, it will not survive on the same model that GW1 did.

 

[ChrisJSY]

You mean every game that had a prior game and was then bought by EA.

Not every game, that's a lie and you know it.

Also, you now agree it can happen, so are you going to change your viewpoint that arenanet can't be perfect just because their previous game was your holy grail and it's possible for them to take an alternative route, or will you be stubborn?

 

[bhavv]

it's possible for them to take an alternative route

They have stated time and time again that GW2 will remain a F2P game with a cash store that will never sell in game advantages. I doubt that they would make such a big deal out of that and use it as such a strong marketing point if they were suddenly going to go against it one or two years later.

GW2 is a major title, it will not survive on the same model that GW1 did.

Plenty of major titles like GW1, Lotro and DDO already do.

Robo is being realistic, the F2P model can only exist as long as people are buying the game as well as buying stuff in game

And either full price expansions like GW1 or smaller DLCs like DDO. Robbos points are not realistic based on every single F2P MMO that already exists and is successful and hugely profitable.

 

[ChrisJSY]

They have stated time and time again that GW2 will remain a F2P game with a cash store that will never sell in game advantages. I doubt that they would make such a big deal out of that and use it as such a strong marketing point if they were suddenly going to go against it one or two years later.

I'm not sure how this got into a cash store selling advantages, I was following the threads on the time/effort/challenge/rewards part.

 

[bhavv]

I'm not sure how this got into a cash store selling advantages, I was following the threads on the time/effort/challenge/rewards part.

Thats exactly what Robbo's belief is, he has said earlier in the thread that Arenanet will eventually have to sell in game advantages for the game to remain successful based on the cash store, exactly the same reasoning and theory crafting he is using now.

He simply hates the F2P model, and will say anything to put it down in comparison to his love of all things Blizzard, WoW, and subscription fees.

Insert X = cash store / FTP, and Y = WoW + subsrciption fees into what I described above:

Depends on how valid the negative opinion is.

'I didnt like the game for x reason'.

Ok fine, maybe dont play the game for that reason then if you dont like it so much.

'I didnt like the game for x reason and demand that it be changed / therefore it will be changed to y!'.

No. lots of people enjoyed x and wouldnt enjoy y. You should play a game that offers y instead of complaining about a game that gives you x instead.

And you get what Robbo is complaining about.

 

[Robbo]

Thats exactly what Robbo's belief is, he has said earlier in the thread that Arenanet will eventually have to sell in game advantages for the game to remain successful based on the cash store, exactly the same reasoning and theory crafting he is using now.

Nope, I've not said that.

I said once that they might do that when I didn't know anything about it, and that I hoped they wouldn't do that.

He simply hates the F2P model, and will say anything to put it down in comparison to his love of all things Blizzard, WoW, and subscription fees.

I couldn't care less what 'model' it is. I only care about the quality of the game itself.

I hope Guild Wars 2 is excellent I'm looking forward to playing it. Understand?

You, on the other hand, hate WoW purely because of it's model so there's a lot of irony in that statement.

You could present your objections in a mature fashion without being horrible and rude, is that so hard for you? You just embarrass yourself in this thread repeatedly and have been warned several times.

 

[bhavv]

I hope Guild Wars 2 is excellent I'm looking forward to playing it. Understand?

I know that you think that.

But you also fully believe, and think that you are 100% correct in believing that the cash store will have to sell in game advantages to keep people interested in buying things from it in order for the game to remain successful, and that the developers will have to dumb the game down eventually to attract more players in order to sell more copies of the game and carry on seilling things through the cash store.

I am stating that these are simply opinions, not facts, and there is no valid basis to them, and very little chance of them happening.

You simply cannot comprehend that any business different or less profitable what WoW can still remain successful without having to change in the ways that you predict. Your negative opinions would be very valid and interesting of they had actually happened, and I would agree with them in that case.

But they havnt happened yet, so as I said you are just theory crafting negatives about the game out of some deeply embeded dislike or distrust of the games business model.

 

[Robbo]

I know that you think that.

But you also fully believe, and think that you are 100% correct in believing that the cash store will have to sell in game advantages to keep people interested in buying things from it in order for the game to remain successful, and that the developers will have to dumb the game down eventually to attract more players in order to sell more copies of the game and carry on seilling things through the cash store.

Where did I say that it would have to sell in game advantages?

I may have said ages ago that I hoped it wouldn't sell things like that, but I haven't mentioned it aside from that. At least not recently.

I'm only talking about them adjusting the balance of the game in order for it to appeal to a wider audience. Only that.

I don't think that is such an outrageous opinion?

 

[Smite]

Ah c'mon chaps, I posted a legit content vid

 

[bhavv]

Its not an outrageous opinion, but going by Arenanets history of how well they listen to the community, if enough people object to such changes as dumbing the game down, they wont do it.

I cant believe they would because they know how to make a good game with challenging content beginning to end. They might add optional 'tools' to the game that make it easier to play like they did with GW1 (consumables and PVE only skills), but overall they have shown themselves not to be a company that simply dumb the content of their game down to make it attract more people.

Plus they have only recently stated that the difficulty at the start of the game is exactly where they want it to be, and have received a tremendous amount of positive feedback for that, so why exactly would they nerf the difficulty?

When prophecies first came out, just about everyone was getting getting facerolled by thunderhead keep and failing badly at it. Did Arenanet ever reduce the difficulty? Nope.

 

[Robbo]

Its not an outrageous opinion, but going by Arenanets history of how well they listen to the community, if enough people object to such changes as dumbing the game down, they wont do it.

I cant believe they would because they know how to make a good game with challenging content beginning to end. They might add 'tools' to the game that make it easier to play like they did with GW1 (consumables and PVE only skills), but overall they have shown themselves not to be a company that simply dumb their game down to make it attract more people.

Plus they have only recently stated that the difficulty at the start of the game is exactly where they want it to be, and have received a tremendous amount of positive feedback for that, so why exactly would they nerf the difficulty?

And that is exactly what I'm hoping for.

I hope they ignore people who whine and want it easier, just like you do too. I was merely saying it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't, and caved in and started adjusting the game for them.

I don't know what will happen and I'm looking forward to seeing how everything plays out.

You just need to be clear on the fact that I'm not mocking Anet, or their money making system, or the game. I'm looking forward to it and so are most MMO people that I know!

 

[bhavv]

I have always complained about GW1 being made easier by skill creep, PVE only skills and consumable. Arenanet did a terrible job of balancing the first game and thats why they needed to start over again because of the mess that GW1 became with its hundreds of skills, and balancing so bad that it looked like they had a monkey sat on a typewriter making all the changes and new skill suggestions.

I am very confident that Arenanet learned from this error of making their game easier over time and how it disillusioned the player base, and its not a mistake that they want to repeat.

Another problem is that if they make PVE too easy that the most skill less players can beat the game, these players are really going to struggle and negatively affect their world when they enter PVP due to being completely unprepared, and even when they enter the explorable dungeons in PVE because from what I've read the difficulty in those is looking to be completely off the scale.

The higher difficulty / lower survivability in PVE can kind of be seen as PVP (and PVE dungeon) preperation really. GW1 PVP was very unforgiving if you were bad at the game, or wanted to use a terrible skill bar, this isnt a game that wants to cater to easy mode players because it wont be very forgiving for them in the end.

If the game is made too easy at the start, this isnt going to help casual players because they will be unable to adapt to the sharper difficulty curve it creates.

 

[ThomBassmonkey]

I'm really looking forwards to this game and this forum is great in general but every time I look on this thread it's filled with childish bickering.

 

[olivier renault]

Dungeons and elite areas are still accessible to beginners in GW1. I've done a few Slaver's exile, Urgoz runs, UW, hard mode EotN dungeons with PUG groups, some better than others and it's still very doable. But some areas like DoA are just too hardcore for beginners.

PVE skills and consumables definitely made GW a lot easier, as well as heroes (I don't play PvP). There are still challenging areas, and I would not be surprised if they go the same route in GW2 after a while.

But yeah, PvP in GW was daunting. Although you have training areas like random arena to hone your skills, where defeat doesn't matter so much.

WvWvW will be a lot more noob friendly than competitive PvP. Don't know if I am even gonna bother with PvP at all.

 

[bhavv]

I thought that UW was harder than DoA. By beginners I would mean people who are completely new to the game, not just pugs.

I wouldnt have been able to get through any of the elite areas in my early days as a flare spammer in starter armour.

 

[w3bbo]

Please keep the thread on topic. Any further trolling/baiting and insulting behaviour will result in holidays for the offenders. Consider this a final warning - w3bbo