Hamilton to Mercedes? BBC

[dannyjo22]

Yeah that's my point, in time the Senna aura glosses over the fact he was tolerated and looked after as much as anyone these days. He had an attitude that no one had any right to be in his way, no matter who it was.

Yet if that was Vettel, ocuk goes into meltdown. Of course I'm as guilty of that too.

Had the media been as it is now back then, I'm sure Senna would have been vocal on twitter too Senna and Mansell whinged more than any of the current crop put together x10.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Something people generally forget about is Hamilton was expected to win a title his first year, and second year, from his first drive he was considered a top driver with huge expectation. Button pottled around for donkeys years doing nothing, no one expected a thing of him AT ALL. He's gone around unpressured for years, unharrassed, he wasn't a "star" as a younger man, he wasn't under the press spotlight and that ignores the fact that the last 5 years the "celebrity" press thing has gone off the scale bat**** crazy.

Hamilton from a very young man has been hounded over every little mistake with people thinking "that mistake will cost you a title", all under a spotlight. Button didn't have this when he was younger, he made a mistake and people went "well the car couldn't win anyway, at least he's trying".

The general attitude towards those guys who go around at the back who generally do very little for a long time is entirely different to that we put towards someone who comes straight into a top team and we expect to win every race. Even after winning a title all but gifted to whoever happened to be driving Brawn, people don't put the same expectation on Button. He can finish behind Hamilton in the championship but we expect more of Hamilton.

As for slimey, deals with problems better, and not publically, almost every single qualifying/practice session Alonso rarely speaks about problems, Hamilton rarely speaks about problems, almost every lap Button is slow there is an excuse on the radio.

Do you think the press or the fans would have given Hamilton such an easy time of "I can't get my tires working and I really don't have a clue why" which is seemingly fixed by using Hamiltons setup? Not a chance in hell.

Button came 17th and 18th the seasons before Brawn was born, and he took a 50% pay cut to take that drive, had he been winning races or coming top 5 often, then he likely wouldn't have ever been at Brawn to begin with. To be fair I can't remember the details surrounding it and maybe he did have other offers he turned down to go with a new team that went from 18th to 1st, some people might call it pure luck.

I don't really have a problem with either guy, I don't love either guys personality, I can't stand Button's driving and I do think he complains more than anyone else and he gets credit for things he doesn't actually do randomly, one race, causing crashes, causing a safety car, being in the perfect and ENTIRELY LUCKY place to pit and get fresh tires then winning a race and suddenly he's the rain master....... He's the tire saver because... in a fairly slow season he went longer than most people largely because he was frequently slower than everyone else and didn't try to pass anyone then this year, this made him the absolute king of tyre saving. Few months later and he's the worst guy on tires on the grid.

If you like or dislike either of them, its clear as day the press and fans treat them vastly differently, look on every mistake by Hamilton with far more scrutiny, while being incredibly forgiving of Button. More than anything else its classic underdog syndrome, Button was the best English driver, but ultimately 17/18th the season before Brawn emerged, he wasn't seen remotely as a title winning driver, then we had an underdog car and underdog driver win the title and people loved it. Hamilton is seen as the opposite, given every advantage, expected to win.

 

[freebooter]

I think that is a very slanted view tbh. Button did get a lot of coverage in the early days. What he didn't get was the huge hype declaring him to be the greatest driver ever and gifted a seat in a top competitive drive as Hamilton did. Then there was a lot of negative coverage of Button's social life and criticism that he was too busy being a playboy and not taking his driving seriously enough.

I think that if instead of being declared the greatest ever driver before he had sat in an F1 car Hamilton had simply been reported as an extremely promising young driver who may do well in the future but would have to prove himself like every other driver it would have helped. If he had started in a mid field team and had to spend a year or two putting all the hard work in and driving hard every race but with no chance of winning then he probably wouldn't have the ego and attitude problems that he has now and would be a better overall driver. Even Vettel coming from the RBR young driver programme wasn't put straight into a Red Bull.

The press coverage Hamilton gets now is due to that early hype and his positioning as a global icon to bring in the sponsorship money. Didn't he say the other day that driving was a business? As with all celebs who use the media to make lots of money he can't complain when the coverage isn't exactly what he wants or is too intrusive.

 

[Mr Men]

I think that is a very slanted view tbh. Button did get a lot of coverage in the early days. What he didn't get was the huge hype declaring him to be the greatest driver ever and gifted a seat in a top competitive drive as Hamilton did. Then there was a lot of negative coverage of Button's social life and criticism that he was too busy being a playboy and not taking his driving seriously enough.

I think that if instead of being declared the greatest ever driver before he had sat in an F1 car Hamilton had simply been reported as an extremely promising young driver who may do well in the future but would have to prove himself like every other driver it would have helped. If he had started in a mid field team and had to spend a year or two putting all the hard work in and driving hard every race but with no chance of winning then he probably wouldn't have the ego and attitude problems that he has now and would be a better overall driver. Even Vettel coming from the RBR young driver programme wasn't put straight into a Red Bull.

The press coverage Hamilton gets now is due to that early hype and his positioning as a global icon to bring in the sponsorship money. Didn't he say the other day that driving was a business? As with all celebs who use the media to make lots of money he can't complain when the coverage isn't exactly what he wants or is too intrusive.

+1

 

[englishpremier]

I think that is a very slanted view tbh. Button did get a lot of coverage in the early days. What he didn't get was the huge hype declaring him to be the greatest driver ever and gifted a seat in a top competitive drive as Hamilton did. Then there was a lot of negative coverage of Button's social life and criticism that he was too busy being a playboy and not taking his driving seriously enough.

I think that if instead of being declared the greatest ever driver before he had sat in an F1 car Hamilton had simply been reported as an extremely promising young driver who may do well in the future but would have to prove himself like every other driver it would have helped. If he had started in a mid field team and had to spend a year or two putting all the hard work in and driving hard every race but with no chance of winning then he probably wouldn't have the ego and attitude problems that he has now and would be a better overall driver. Even Vettel coming from the RBR young driver programme wasn't put straight into a Red Bull.

The press coverage Hamilton gets now is due to that early hype and his positioning as a global icon to bring in the sponsorship money. Didn't he say the other day that driving was a business? As with all celebs who use the media to make lots of money he can't complain when the coverage isn't exactly what he wants or is too intrusive.

Agree with this. Button got a shed load of coverage. Especially in his williams days. I remember thinking i'm sick of hearing about the guy, get on with the show.

Youngest ever British F1 driver, youngest ever driver to score a point blah blah. The media was relentless. Just as they were with Hamilton.

A little wiki extract

Button was heavily hyped before his first race: former driver Gerhard Berger described him as a "phenomenon"; the head of his karting team, Paul Lemmens, compared him to Ayrton Senna; and Williams' technical director Patrick Head said he was "remarkably mature and definitely a star of the future"

 

[arknor]

every british driver gets that.

if moldynado was british everyone would be bigged him up as the hero and everyone else the villian

 

[FrankJH]

Something people generally forget about is Hamilton was expected to win a title his first year, and second year, from his first drive he was considered a top driver with huge expectation. Button pottled around for donkeys years doing nothing, no one expected a thing of him AT ALL. He's gone around unpressured for years, unharrassed, he wasn't a "star" as a younger man, he wasn't under the press spotlight and that ignores the fact that the last 5 years the "celebrity" press thing has gone off the scale bat**** crazy.

Absolute BS

1) JB may have arrived at Williams as a relative unknown (in only a reasonably competitive car, certainly no comparison to the leading car LH stepped into though), but since then he always had huge press attention and pressure on him (from the playboy & legal battle aspect with Williams to actual racing with Benetton and Honda etc)

F1 has also grown expanentially in the last 5 years or so - Even MS as a multi world champ in the late 90's wouldnt have got the same level of press attention that LH gets now, its just not comparable in the slightest.

Williams was already on its slow slide down the grid when JB joined (not as competitve as now, but also not as bad as last season or the season before), Benneton were not that much better and Honda only improved when Brawn joined about a season before changing the team name (even though JB had been there several seasons already).

Its also a fact that JB now (and has done for years) keeps his head down and works hard - LH might work hard (and like majority of drivers does this) but also with the very "bling" girlfriend , not to mention his frequently stupid actions on and off the track just make a quiet life (for a F1 driver) impossible.

(ie quite often LH brings it on himself - where he should be learning , and should have done so in many respects already. He just doesnt appear to , or does very slowly).

 

[JoeF1]

every british driver gets that.

if moldynado was british everyone would be bigged him up as the hero and everyone else the villian

+1

 

[EddScott]

(ie quite often LH brings it on himself - where he should be learning , and should have done so in many respects already. He just doesnt appear to , or does very slowly).

He's becoming a Diva and its affecting his ability to race. Whistling up his own backside one might say.

 

[Irish_Tom]

I'll be willing to bet Schumacher doesn't finish monza.

What are the odds at the moment?

Considering the luck he's had this season and seeing as Merc have repaired his gearbox from Spa rather than replacing it, plus the fact they were telling him to short-shift during FP1, I wouldn't be surprised if his gearbox blew up half way through the race on Sunday.

 

[dannyjo22]

F1 has also grown expanentially in the last 5 years or so - Even MS as a multi world champ in the late 90's wouldnt have got the same level of press attention that LH gets now, its just not comparable in the slightest..

Care to show me some stats for that? Genuinely interested because every thing I have read says the figures slid and even before the global recession sponsors wanted out. Yes it's going to new places but F1 seems to be very dependent on whether you have a driver from that country racing as to whether there is much interest.

It certainly hasn't grown from the 80's 90's is this country. Media wise they have twitter and other ways to reach the fans but I certainly don't think there is more media interest, if anything magazines have dissapeared from shelves rather than an influx of interest?

I agree JB has matured very well from the person he was at Benetton when he acted like he was already part of the furniture. He had his head turned but got back on track. Luckily for him Brawn came along because he would have been out of F1 now and always remembered wrongly as a big headed playboy.

I don't think it's fair to compare the attitude of them both, they are different ages and Lewis has been in the title hunt just about every year, where Button has had to endure quite a few years of pain and just felt lucky to be on the grid in 09.

 

[Mr Men]

Autosport and F1 Racing are still on the shelves can't really think of any that have gone missing, was an official F1 mag which did not last long, and one other one that had to shut down as they could not pay their libel fees for all the rubbish they printed.

But the internet has made magazines somewhat redundant. I would say there is much more media coverage now compared to 10 years ago.

 

[dannyjo22]

Internet media coverage maybe. Even then there's not really anything new that's sprung up and most of the old ones are dead except planet f1 which is the equivalent of the sun. Amount of coverage in newspapers is the same as it's always been.

It's viewing figures that would determine if F1 is growing exponentially since the 80's/90's and I doubt they have grown that much in the last 5 years? Which is why I'm interested to see figures rather than an assumption.

 

[Mr Men]

Frank was taking about media coverage though not viewing figures, I think he is right that the internet and things like twitter has increased media coverage of the sport quite dramatically compared to 10 years ago.

 

[FrankJH]

Care to show me some stats for that? Genuinely interested because every thing I have read says the figures slid and even before the global recession sponsors wanted out. Yes it's going to new places but F1 seems to be very dependent on whether you have a driver from that country racing as to whether there is much interest..

Apologies, I was meaning in the general media sense rather than TV etc
(this is just an impression I get, maybe wrong, but there seem to be more F1 related articles these days than in the late 90's early noughties)

I should have made clear I meant this as a perception rather than anything speciific via figures etc

I also think Bernie's love of going into new territories (and local attendance figures for these new races falling compared to scrapped older races) are harming advertising - in the long run it may help, but with limited income the "glossy"/ up-market advertising campaigns are always going to struggle in these locations

It certainly hasn't grown from the 80's 90's is this country. Media wise they have twitter and other ways to reach the fans but I certainly don't think there is more media interest, if anything magazines have dissapeared from shelves rather than an influx of interest?.

I cant comment on the 80's but I only really recall Autosport from 10 years ago + (I seem to recall reading it at school over 20 years ago, although my memory could be playing up) - I certainly dont recall anything like F1 racing (am I correct in thinking this died as a publication and then came back, Im not sure).

There were minor articles in autocar but nothing major really (dredging up memoreis

I agree JB has matured very well from the person he was at Benetton when he acted like he was already part of the furniture. He had his head turned but got back on track. Luckily for him Brawn came along because he would have been out of F1 now and always remembered wrongly as a big headed playboy.

I don't think it's fair to compare the attitude of them both, they are different ages and Lewis has been in the title hunt just about every year, where Button has had to endure quite a few years of pain and just felt lucky to be on the grid in 09.

He learned his lessons from Bennotton very well imo (although given his boss at the time, its not that surprising) - but its a little unfair to say "thanks to Brawn" as JB was at Honda trying his hardest to develop that car for years before Brawn arrived (and before Brawn they got some decent results even if his first win was under Brawn as his boss)



edit - also I wonder if the BBC have been pushing F1 news (in news / other programs) in the last couple of years because of what they/the liceence payer was paying to show the races (feathering their own back to mix a few metaphores lol).

It's viewing figures that would determine if F1 is growing exponentially since the 80's/90's and I doubt they have grown that much in the last 5 years? Which is why I'm interested to see figures rather than an assumption.

I disagree with this completely . Sure , this is definitely one angle of showing interest , without doubt. It isnt the only way however. You have to consider print media as well (and to be fair, there is still a huge amount more print media attention than any tv channel will ever get with a few hours every two weeks)

 

[dannyjo22]

Fair enough apologies, I see what you mean with various other forms of media.
Most of the f1 sites and forums are dead but yes agreed the other wealth of info is far far greater for those that want to use it

I think of growth for f1 in the area they are most keen on viewer numbers for sponsorship and keeping sponsors happy and I doubt that's growing. After all they don't give a toss if tracks are dead on race day, only the numbers in front of screens

 

[Flibster]

Autosport and F1 Racing are still on the shelves can't really think of any that have gone missing, was an official F1 mag which did not last long, and one other one that had to shut down as they could not pay their libel fees for all the rubbish they printed.

But the internet has made magazines somewhat redundant. I would say there is much more media coverage now compared to 10 years ago.

Motorsport is still going too. I've got copies from the 60's and I think it started way back in the 20's.

Not bad going.

 

[FrankJH]

I think of growth for f1 in the area they are most keen on viewer numbers for sponsorship and keeping sponsors happy and I doubt that's growing. After all they don't give a toss if tracks are dead on race day, only the numbers in front of screens

totally correct - its wierd actually how footy announcers nearly always announce the actual attendance figures (on tv) for majority of matches, but I cant remember the last time (even ITV) ever announced figures for any race. (admittedy Monaco etc would be impossible, and Spa and a couple of others where there is land not owned by the track owner/etc with excellent viewing - but a lot of tracks are in the "middle" of private land where they could easily publicize local attendance - if they so wished.

Obviously some of the newer tracks with empty grandstands, FIA and whoever wouldnt want actual numbers getting out (even though I guess tv pictures would show how empty the grandstands are anyway) but for the more popular races, Im not sure why they dont release the number of tickets sold etc.

 

[DecoySA]

This whole hamiltom is becoming a diva/whiner stance is getting ridiculous, fair enough if you were talking about last season but this season he has probably been acting more mature than he has his entire career.

Lets break this season down. Here are the various things he could have had a cry about this season

2 DNFs thanks to Maldonado and Grosjean - Remained calm in all interviews after the race, no hissy fits whatsoever

Barcelona quali fiasco - Very mature response to it, no outbursts whatsoever.

Numerous pit stop blunders - Again complete lack of drama over it beyond a fairly calm message over the radio asking whats going on

5 place grid penalty for busted gearbox - No drama or negativity whatsoever

various mclaren strategy blunders - Again no drama or negative quotes surrounding these incidents


So that brings us to Spa, lets be honest his first two tweets he posted were completely harmless, he was just looking to explain why he was slower, perhaps the use of the term "wtf" was not ideal but what are you all ? a bunch of ******* fairies ? id rather a driver post stuff like that than some corporate pr nonsense (which ironically is another thing that people love to criticise him for).

Now the telemetry tweet, pretty stupid thing to do but i didn't see it as a sign of him having a hissy fit, he just clearly wasn't thinking straight and posted it in order to show his fans where he was losing time. He has been making big efforts to interact with his fans fia Twitter in recent months and this was just another example of it, all be it not the wisest example. Anyway they asked him to take it down, he took it down.

So basically i see one thing he has done wrong this season and tbh not even that is really classifiable as "diva" behaviour or whining. Consider how much stuff he has had to whine about, an absolute ton and yet he has kept it in check all season up until Spa.

Meanwhile the saint that is Jenson Button has been whining every other race about balance and his car, and yet no ones having a go at him ? you all know damn well if it had been Hamilton constantly crying about the setup/balance he would be getting untold grief over it.

Also lets not forget only 3 seasons ago Jenson was launching an F Word rant at journalists, im yet to see Hamilton do that.

As for people going on about his hip hop lifestyle etc, all that does is make me laugh at how unbelievably nerdy, white and middle class the motorsport fan demographic is. Ohh my gaaawd he's hanging out with rap stars, he's ruining his career wah wah wah. Meanwhile Sebastian Vettel is appearing in pop videos with canadian RNB stars and no one blinks an eyelid lol.

God bless overly dramatic motorsport fans, making me cringe since 1987

 

[Mr Men]

There was a article posted here the other week from a engineer that worked with Lewis, and confirmed how he changed into a diva.