Happy Festivus
- Thread starter Tunney
- Start date
All Hallow's Eve does, my friend. Once again it was stolen by the Christians who were attempting to replace Samhain to convert pagans.
Might be in some denominations, but certainly not all, as I have never celebrated it.
Christmas and Easter are the only Christian celebrations which are actually important and have relevance across all denominations.
Soldato
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One thing that's actually factual and relevant to this time of year is the Sun is climbing back up the sky, gradually giving us more light during the day 
Happy Winter Solstice
Happy Winter Solstice
Soldato
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This is a commonly held fallacy....many different religions and belief systems that evolved separately and in isolation share many of these dates simply because they have astronomical and/or seasonal significance....that they have been assimilated or incorporated into existing or competing systems as those systems became prevalent and/or began to influence each other as they spread and evolved culturally and socially is immaterial. The liturgical calendar shares some dates and brought in others of its own, many modern pagan systems used the liturgical calendar as a guide in the 19th Century and therefore it could be argued the opposite way....what is the truth however is that many of these dates and festivals are shared across a range of beliefs simply because of common factors to them all.
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Again, a fallacy. The two(and more) festivals were independent of each other for centuries, Samhain and various other Northern European equivalents were simply absorbed into Christianity as it spread throughout the region...the actual Halloween (or All Hallows' eve) is not an actual Christian observance, all saints day and All Souls' Day on the 1st and 2nd November are the liturgical dates. The reality is that instead of Christianity influencing the festival of Samhain, Beltane and so on, it was the Celtic and the Germanic people's who observed such dates culturally that influenced and encouraged the Church to switch All Saints Day to later in the liturgical year to accommodate Christian observance into their own cultural identity as their culture and beliefs evolved.
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No we are not, you are saying that Christianity effectively forced and to use your words stole the dates and observances and incorporated them in order to convert...whereas the reality is that many of the dates already existed in both belief systems independently of each other and the specific one of Halloween (or rather the changes in All Saints Day from the Spring to the Autumn) was caused by influences on the Church from the powerful Germanic and Celtic Nations of Northern Europe who wanted them moved to coincide with their own cultural activities, The Pope at the time acquiesced to them in the early medieval period rather than the Church stealing the dates, it assumed the dates because it was largely forced to.
Cultures influence each other as they assimilated and evolve over time. Things like the Solstices, astronomical and seasonal influences are a shared common factor to many different beliefs and religions, all independent of each other.
Festivus itself is an entirely secular and extremely modern observance, made popular by Garry Seinfeld, it has no cultural or religious roots at all.
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It was a very liberal use of the word 'stole' Castiel, I agree that 'absorbed' would have been much better. I have done plenty of research on all the pagan/neopagan festivals from Samhain through to Mabon and am perfectly aware of their history.
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Then you are no doubt aware that much of that history is based on linguistic references rather than actual historical references and evidence....what we know of Samhain is largely influenced on the 19th Century resurgence in folklore among the Victorians and is a combination of a wide range of Northern European tribal customs across a broad range of independent beliefs. Much of what we know comes from Christianized writings from the 9th-12th Centuries and that Samhain itself is reference to the beginning of a season (in its original language it means The Period(Calend) of Winter) rather than a specific festival date, with the actual festivities being different across various tribes and regions, there was no specific festival universal itself, it made up one of the Celtic four seasonal periods of which Beltane (Spring) and Samhain (Winter) were the most important. The traditions and particulars of Samhain are still relatively unknown, with commonly held (modern pagan and secular) rituals such 'trick or treat' and Pumpkins being originally Christian or later secular and modern pagan additions as is the association with the supernatural...there is very little evidence to suggest otherwise.
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