Hardware help - first build

Associate
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7 Apr 2012
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Hi all.

Been lurking around these forums for a fair while now and they've helped me a lot in choosing specs for my up-and-coming, years-in-the-making, mid-range gaming first build.

Still, I've kind of run out of personal knowledge with this and would really appreciate a helping hand with a couple of things, which I'll explain later. For now, the specs which I think I've properly decided on:

NOTE: Have changed several of the specs below since original OP. As such some of the rest of it might not make sense. Also, when I put GTX 580 in the orginal specs, I meant GTX 560 Ti (obviously... lol).

-

Case - Antec Three Hundred

Motherboard - Asrock Z77 Extreme 4

CPU - Intel i5-2500k (seems like the obvious choice)

Graphics - Radeon HD7850

RAM - Corsair Vengeance 8 Gb (DDR3, 1600 MHz)

Cooling - Two fans built into case, two Cooler Master 120 mm, one Zalman 120 mm, Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo on CPU

Drive - One OCZ Agility 3 60 Gb SSD (boot drive), one 500 Gb WD Caviar Blue Hard drive (7200 rpm)

PSU - Corsair GS700

Sony 24x DVD drive, couple of other bits and bobs.

-

I've been lucky enough to end up with a very nice LG 23 inch 3D monitor and a Creative 2.1 sound system essentially for free from a friend (long story), so I don't need to worry about those. The monitor is also the reason why I've gone for a fairly powerful graphics card, as I'd like to give 3D a shot sometime in the future if not right off the bat. If one GTX 560 ti can't push 3D graphics, two overclocked in SLI ought to. ;)

Now, you've probably noticed the conspicuous lack of a motherboard on that list. That's one of the many places where you guys come in.

To be totally honest, I'm kind of new to this whole building computer thing and I'm not totally sure what I'm looking for in a motherboard. I gather that P67 and Z68 chipsets are best for the i5-2500k, but I'm kind of bewildered by the choice out there and it would be great if someone could help me out. I understand that Z68 is a step up from P67 in terms of complexity, but what exactly would a Z68 board offer me that I wouldn't get with a P67 board?

One particular model that I've heard a lot about is the Asrock Z68 Extreme 4 Gen 3. However, I've also found its little brother, the Extreme 3 (not Gen 3 or Gen anything, for that matter), for as little as £60. So what exactly makes it worth all the extra cash?

Another model that caught my fancy is the Pro 3 Gen 3, mostly due to its price. It seems to offer much of the features of the Extreme 3 Gen 4 (the ones that I like: the fan control; seperate VGA, DVI and HDMI and the graphical BIOS) at only £70. However, I'm not sure if it's totally compatible with the 15-2500k.

If it's any help, features that I'd like in a motherboard would be SLI support, good overclocking support (this one's important; being able to pump lots of watts through it is vital), support for fan speed things (you know, so you can adjust the speed from the computer or set it to adapt automatically), a good onboard sound card would save me buying a discrete one, and plenty of USB 3.0 slots.

Or if I have, indeed, missed the plot entirely, please educate me on what exactly I'm looking for.

Another flaw in my plan could be that the 600 W PSU might be on the conservative side. I think it should do fine for the build specs, but I plan to overclock and I'd like to keep the door open to the possibility of SLI. Would 600 W cover two overclocked GPUs, an overclocked CPU, five fans and my USB toaster? Tips would be appreciated.

That's all I can think of, though feel free to blast shell-sized holes in my plans so far. My mantra for this build is for it to go as smoothly and cheaply as possible without cutting corners, and I hope you guys will be able to point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long OP!

:rolleyes:

:eek:


Edit:

Other considerations (as if you need any more):

Thinking about the RAM being at 1600 MHz - I understand that the faster the better, but would it be possible to just take 8 Gbs of cheaper 1333 MHz RAM and overclock it to 1600 MHz? Would this work, and if so, would I really notice the difference?

Actually, I've also just realised that you can get Kingston 1600 MHz HyperX RAM dead cheap here, so I may alter my plans accordingly.

Also, with Ivy Bridge around the corner, do you guys think it would be worth waiting for Sandy Bridge prices to fall or investing in a Z77 mobo?

Cheers very much for the help, hugely appreciated.
 
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Soldato
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That mid range?
If you do get to building something like that you should compare it to the spec in my sig =(
 
Soldato
Joined
1 Apr 2009
Posts
9,952
YOUR BASKET
1 x EVGA GeForce GTX 680 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card (02G-P4-2680-KR) £429.95
1 x Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £173.99
1 x Gigabyte Z68X-UD3H-GEN3 Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard £122.98
1 x Crucial RealSSD M4 128GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive (CT128M4SSD2) £119.99
1 x Seagate Barracuda Green 2TB SATA 6Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (ST2000DL003) £93.98
1 x Cooler Master Silent Pro Modular 600W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply £62.99
1 x Corsair Carbide 300R Mid Tower Case - Black £52.98
1 x Corsair Vengeance Low Profile 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (CML8GX3M2A1600C9) £39.95
1 x Corsair A50 High-Performance CPU Cooler (Socket AM2/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) £24.98
1 x Sony Optiarc AD-7280S 24x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black) - OEM £19.99
Total : £1,156.78 (includes shipping : £12.50).



I would push the PSU to something a bit more meaty if thinking SLI, like the XFX Core 650W, on offer.

If it's too expensive, consider a 7850 2GB, which is in the region of a 6950 / GTX 570. And dropping to a 64GB M4.

I'm also intrigued by the EVGA SLI motherboard around the same price. Can't say for sure about the motherboard unless you do a little research, but there are plenty of good candidates.

YOUR BASKET
1 x MSI HD 7850 Twin Frozr III OC 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Cards £209.99
1 x Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £173.99
1 x EVGA Intel Z68 SLI (Socket 1155) DDR3 ATX Motherboard (130-SB-E685-KR) £129.95
1 x Seagate Barracuda Green 2TB SATA 6Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (ST2000DL003) £93.98
1 x XFX Pro 750W Core Edition '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply £82.99
1 x Crucial RealSSD M4 64GB 2.5 SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive (CT064M4SSD2) £73.99
1 x Corsair Carbide 300R Mid Tower Case - Black £52.98
1 x Corsair Vengeance Low Profile 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (CML8GX3M2A1600C9) £39.95
1 x Corsair A50 High-Performance CPU Cooler (Socket AM2/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) £24.98
1 x Sony Optiarc AD-7280S 24x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black) - OEM £19.99
Total : £919.30 (includes shipping : £13.75).

 
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Associate
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31 Aug 2011
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Location
Leicester
The price difference in those motherboards is probably caused by the ammount of PCIe lanes and their bus speeds. A PCie configuration running at 16x with another at 1x is going to cost considerably less than a motherboard with a PCIE 16x/8x or 16x/16x configuration.

The reason why you'd want a high bandwidth speed is so that it does not bottleneck your GPUs capability. 1x limits the GPU to about 75%, 4x to ~88%, 8x to ~97%. For AMD's Crossfire you need at least 16x/4x, and for SLI I believe it is 16x/8x. Something like a Z68XP-UD3 - or assumingly a similar board of a similar price - will suffice for SLI.

You might as well get the 1600Mhz RAM, it's the best price/performance option when coupled with something like the 2500k. Although you wouldn't notice much loss when compared to 1333Mhz.

Speaking of which, the 2500k is a beast of a CPU, it can overclock like crazy so rest assured it won't be a bottleneck anytime soon. And anyway, as long as you go with an LGA 1155 board, you can upgrade to Ivy Bridge later if you need.

Hope I've helped. And I'd consider oliver's spec there, and I'd agree with the 7850 suggestion, people here have found that even the stock card can reach incredible near-7970 speeds (Check it out here)
 
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OP
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7 Apr 2012
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Okay I'll go first.... What is your budget and is it solely a gaming machine?
Up to £850, though the cheaper the better. While I said mid-range gaming, mid-to-high range with an eye for futureproofing would maybe be more accurate.

Before the monitor and sound system I mentioned in the OP came along, I drafted together a nice imaginary computer for myself, including monitor and speakers, that came to around £1000. I didn't like the idea of dropping a round K on it though, so I chopped and changed and wore the price down to about £750, including monitor and sound. However, shortly after that a friend of mine had a nasty accident involving his new 23 inch LG 3D monitor and Creative speakers, which left them damaged. Fortunately he had them insured, but the insurance company somewhat bizarrely diagnosed them as write-offs, when the repair guys at the local shop said that they were perfectly treatable. Even better, the company didn't take the 'faulty' equipment, instead leaving it to my friend to 'dispose' of it. The upshot of this is that my friend got brand new replacement models for his monitor and speakers and, knowing that I was building a computer (also tying in with a birthday), he kindly let me pay the local shop £30 or so to refurbish the old kit and keep it.

So, that's how I ended up with a £200 23 inch 5 ms 3D monitor and £40 2.1 sound system for £30.

:)

Anyway, sorry for the long-winded explanation. That was a few weeks ago and I've since decided to spend the money I would have saved on the monitor and speakers on hardware for the computer, and boosted up my specs accordingly. The price of the machine at the moment, including a £100 mobo for the sake of an accurate estimation, is about £770, including mouse and keyboard and excluding the sound card which I may-or-may-not get.

I plan to use it for general computing as well as gaming, a kind of all-in-one machine if you will. I also don't need to factor in Windows or Microsoft Office into the above price, because I already have a copy of each.

YOUR BASKET
1 x EVGA GeForce GTX 680 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card (02G-P4-2680-KR) £429.95
1 x Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £173.99
1 x Gigabyte Z68X-UD3H-GEN3 Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard £122.98
1 x Crucial RealSSD M4 128GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive (CT128M4SSD2) £119.99
1 x Seagate Barracuda Green 2TB SATA 6Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (ST2000DL003) £93.98
1 x Cooler Master Silent Pro Modular 600W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply £62.99
1 x Corsair Carbide 300R Mid Tower Case - Black £52.98
1 x Corsair Vengeance Low Profile 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (CML8GX3M2A1600C9) £39.95
1 x Corsair A50 High-Performance CPU Cooler (Socket AM2/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) £24.98
1 x Sony Optiarc AD-7280S 24x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black) - OEM £19.99
Total : £1,156.78 (includes shipping : £12.50).



I would push the PSU to something a bit more meaty if thinking SLI, like the XFX Core 650W, on offer.

If it's too expensive, consider a 7850 2GB, which is in the region of a 6950 / GTX 570. And dropping to a 64GB M4.

I'm also intrigued by the EVGA SLI motherboard around the same price. Can't say for sure about the motherboard unless you do a little research, but there are plenty of good candidates.

YOUR BASKET
1 x MSI HD 7850 Twin Frozr III OC 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Cards £209.99
1 x Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £173.99
1 x EVGA Intel Z68 SLI (Socket 1155) DDR3 ATX Motherboard (130-SB-E685-KR) £129.95
1 x Seagate Barracuda Green 2TB SATA 6Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (ST2000DL003) £93.98
1 x XFX Pro 750W Core Edition '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply £82.99
1 x Crucial RealSSD M4 64GB 2.5 SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive (CT064M4SSD2) £73.99
1 x Corsair Carbide 300R Mid Tower Case - Black £52.98
1 x Corsair Vengeance Low Profile 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (CML8GX3M2A1600C9) £39.95
1 x Corsair A50 High-Performance CPU Cooler (Socket AM2/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366) £24.98
1 x Sony Optiarc AD-7280S 24x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black) - OEM £19.99
Total : £919.30 (includes shipping : £13.75).

Thanks for the help.

However, I'm sourcing parts from across the internet and as such have managed to keep costs down to around £750-£800. I know where my allegiances lie though - a lot of the stuff I'm ordering is coming from here.

Hmm... while I don't think my budget can stretch to the 580, the 7850 is really interesting. Statistically (source: http://www.hwcompare.com/12054/geforce-gtx-560-ti-vs-radeon-hd-7850/#texelrateExplain), it beats the 560 Ti at every corner for not a lot more money. Also seems to need a lot less juice to power, which will be handy. How does it overclock?

Still, there are a couple of Nvidia-specific things that atract my attention. Not in the least of which the fact that SLI seems to trump Crossfire by most measurements. I'm not really clued up on the whole Nvidia vs AMD argument though. I know it's probably asking for a flame war, but what would I be sacrificing/gaining by going AMD?

I definitely think that the 5780 is a great suggestion though.

I'm going to take the PSU a step up too, thanks for the advice.

The price difference in those motherboards is probably caused by the ammount of PCIe lanes and their bus speeds. A PCie configuration running at 16x with another at 1x is going to cost considerably less than a motherboard with a PCIE 16x/8x or 16x/16x configuration.

The reason why you'd want a high bandwidth speed is so that it does not bottleneck your GPUs capability. 1x limits the GPU to about 75%, 4x to ~88%, 8x to ~97%. For AMD's Crossfire you need at least 16x/4x, and for SLI I believe it is 16x/8x. Something like a Z68XP-UD3 - or assumingly a similar board of a similar price - will suffice for SLI.

You might as well get the 1600Mhz RAM, it's the best price/performance option when coupled with something like the 2500k. Although you wouldn't notice much loss when compared to 1333Mhz.

Speaking of which, the 2500k is a beast of a CPU, it can overclock like crazy so rest assured it won't be a bottleneck anytime soon. And anyway, as long as you go with an LGA 1155 board, you can upgrade to Ivy Bridge later if you need.

Hope I've helped. And I'd consider oliver's spec there, and I'd agree with the 7850 suggestion, people here have found that even the stock card can reach incredible near-7970 speeds (Check it out here)

Thanks; that's really helpful.

Checked out the Asrock Pro3 I mentioned above - great reviews, 4.5 stars on Techradar, no SLI or Crossfire. Kind of annoying, it ticked every other box.

:(

However, taking the following advice -
I would look at getting a Z77 board, considering the extra benefits and price.
... I investigated further and Google Shopping came up with the Asrock Z77 Pro3. £80, and essentially carries all the good things about Asrock's Z68 Pro3, and apparently adds Crossfire X capability, though the stats seem to say that it would happily run SLI too. Kind of unsure though, on the overview it says it has only one PCIe (x16) slot, but also advertises Crossfire compatibility. On the specs sheet it says it has two x16 PCI express (that's what the 'e' in PCIe stands for, right?) 3.0 slots, one x16 PCI express 2.0, and two plain old 'PCI' slots. Plus it's Z77, so if I get it then I'm officially future-proofed.

:cool:

That seems like the bargain of the century to me at £80 (considering it carries over all the cool stuff I liked on the Z68 board), but strangely enough it's only listed on one well-known computer website (not this one), and I can't find any other information on it other than that on the Asrock website.

Here's the link to the Asrock site:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=Z77%20Pro3

Thoughts?

+1 on z77 and maybe would push the ssd to 128gb

I'm only going to use the SSD to store Windows and maybe a few particularly labour-intensive games on a temporary basis, which is why I opted for a smaller drive. Times have moved on but SSD is still bloody expensive...

Anyway, thanks for the replies so far. You lot've already helped me a great deal.
 
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Soldato
Joined
1 Apr 2009
Posts
9,952
However, I'm sourcing parts from across the internet and as such have managed to keep costs down to around £750-£800. I know where my allegiances lie though - a lot of the stuff I'm ordering is coming from here.

Builds are just examples of hardware I would select. If you shop around, you can save money, of course.

Hmm... while I don't think my budget can stretch to the 580, the 7850 is really interesting. Statistically (source: http://www.hwcompare.com/12054/geforce-gtx-560-ti-vs-radeon-hd-7850/#texelrateExplain), it beats the 560 Ti at every corner for not a lot more money. Also seems to need a lot less juice to power, which will be handy. How does it overclock?

From reading around, it's a very good overclocker. If you are looking at the £200 price range, that is the card to get atm.

Still, there are a couple of Nvidia-specific things that atract my attention. Not in the least of which the fact that SLI seems to trump Crossfire by most measurements. I'm not really clued up on the whole Nvidia vs AMD argument though. I know it's probably asking for a flame war, but what would I be sacrificing/gaining by going AMD?

Meh. I run 6950 Xfire quite happily. The downside is game support for crossfire. However if you go 560ti, I would pick up a 2GB version, such as the Twin Frozr II 2048GB.

I'm going to take the PSU a step up too, thanks for the advice.

The new gpus are extremely efficient. As a rule of thumb, with the latest generation, 550W for a single card, 650W (which is generous) for a dual card. The XFX 650W has 4 PCI power connectors, so it means it is designed to power two powerful graphics cards. Personally, I don't like messing around with power adapters. the 7850, IIRC, only takes one PCIE power connector? Although don't quote me on that.


Checked out the Asrock Pro3 I mentioned above - great reviews, 4.5 stars on Techradar, no SLI or Crossfire. Kind of annoying, it ticked every other box.

... I investigated further and Google Shopping came up with the Asrock Z77 Pro3. £80, and essentially carries all the good things about Asrock's Z68 Pro3, and apparently adds Crossfire X capability, though the stats seem to say that it would happily run SLI too. Kind of unsure though, on the overview it says it has only one PCIe (x16) slot, but also advertises Crossfire compatibility. On the specs sheet it says it has two x16 PCI express (that's what the 'e' in PCIe stands for, right?) 3.0 slots, one x16 PCI express 2.0, and two plain old 'PCI' slots. Plus it's Z77, so if I get it then I'm officially future-proofed.

:cool:

That seems like the bargain of the century to me at £80 (considering it carries over all the cool stuff I liked on the Z68 board), but strangely enough it's only listed on one well-known computer website (not this one), and I can't find any other information on it other than that on the Asrock website.

Here's the link to the Asrock site:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=Z77%20Pro3

Thoughts?

This is the budget AsRock. It has weak VRMs as well. I would spend a little more if possible towards a decent board. In general, you get what you pay for.

I'm only going to use the SSD to store Windows and maybe a few particularly labour-intensive games on a temporary basis, which is why I opted for a smaller drive. Times have moved on but SSD is still bloody expensive...

Anyway, thanks for the replies so far. You lot've already helped me a great deal.

You can optimise space on a SSD. Disable hibernation (takes 6GB with 8GB RAM), and move the page file on a hard drive (saves around 4-8GB). And of course, move your user folders (My documents, temporary caches, ... ) on the hard drive as well. Also making sure backup and restore is set to a hard drive (I use a separate HDD partition to keep things clean).
 
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Associate
OP
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7 Apr 2012
Posts
8
Builds are just examples of hardware I would select. If you shop around, you can save money, of course.



From reading around, it's a very good overclocker. If you are looking at the £200 price range, that is the card to get atm.

Yeah, I think I'm going to opt for it. I've looked around (this website is very handy - http://www.hwcompare.com/), but I can't find anything offering a better price-performance ratio. Was wondering about the various manufacturer versions though: I can pick up a VTX3D model for £180, or a dual fan Sapphire version for another £10. I've heard that Sapphire cards tend to be cooler and quieter, but as my case setup will have a 120 mm fan blowing pretty much straight at the GPU I don't really know if it's worth the extra money. Thoughts?

Meh. I run 6950 Xfire quite happily. The downside is game support for crossfire.
Having researched the SLI vs Crossfire thing a bit more, I think the ability to run different card models with Crossfire would be handy in the future. Does SLI have vastly more support or is it just a small thing?

However if you go 560ti, I would pick up a 2GB version, such as the Twin Frozr II 2048GB.


The new gpus are extremely efficient. As a rule of thumb, with the latest generation, 550W for a single card, 650W (which is generous) for a dual card. The XFX 650W has 4 PCI power connectors, so it means it is designed to power two powerful graphics cards. Personally, I don't like messing around with power adapters. the 7850, IIRC, only takes one PCIE power connector? Although don't quote me on that.
I've found a nice 700 W Corsair for £60, which should generously cover all I have, even if I OC everything and run Crossfire. Apparently the Sapphire 7850 needs about 250 W when overclocked to 1050 MHz and put through its paces as much as possible (couldn't find stats for the VTX3D). I'll never be overclocking it that much anyway, but it would be nice to have the headroom. Plus, it's from Corsair's Gaming series and comes with a colour-changing LED on the fan (blue, white or red), which is pointless but cool.

This is the budget AsRock. It has weak VRMs as well. I would spend a little more if possible towards a decent board. In general, you get what you pay for.
Okay. VRMs are the things that regulate the voltage for the CPU, right? What kind of effect would rubbish ones have?

As far as alternatives go, I've found the Asrock Z77 Extreme 4 going for around £90. Good choice?

Of course there are heaps of suitable mobos out there, but I've heard particularly good things about Asrock boards and they seem to tick all the boxes I need without making me pay for things I don't.

You can optimise space on a SSD. Disable hibernation (takes 6GB with 8GB RAM), and move the page file on a hard drive (saves around 4-8GB). And of course, move your user folders (My documents, temporary caches, ... ) on the hard drive as well. Also making sure backup and restore is set to a hard drive (I use a separate HDD partition to keep things clean).
Thanks for the tips, will prove handy.

:)

On the subject of memory, I've been thinking of dropping down to a 500 Gb WD Caviar Blue drive. That would save me £30, which I could spend on a better motherboard and help keep prices below £800. The Z77 Extreme 4 also supports RAID, so if I were to get another drive then I could take advantage of that. I've never felt particularly restrained by the 100 Gb drive on the computer I'm typing this on, but then I've never really used this computer for much other than web use and word processing.

Thoughts?

EDIT:

NOTE: I've updated the OP with my specs as they stand.

Also been wondering - is there any point in buying a fan controller?

I gather that the main purpose of them is to provide a handy way to adjust molex-equipped fans, as well as looking kind of cool. But the fans I plan on buying have three pin power cable things, which means that so long as I get a compatible motherboard I can plug them into it and adjust them through the software, right?

In other words, am I right in thinking that the only advantage I would get from them would be the ability to adjust them right on the case by pressing buttons... which would be pointless anyway because the software auto-adjusts them?

EDIT 2:

Actually, I've just discovered that the motherboard I'm looking at has one four-pin slot and two three-pin slots for fans. Does this mean that I would only be able to adjust three fans? If so, would I be able to get some sort of splitter or adaptor to help control more fans?

Sorry for all the noob questions, lol.
 
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Associate
OP
Joined
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Posts
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Still haven't figured out how to delete the above double post, but, well...




bump

Also, I've been thinking of changing the case to the BitFenix Shinobi. It has more space for fans than the Antec Three Hundred and more space inside, as well as more drive bays, a nice black interior, more exterior USB ports and IMO better looks. The only drawback I can think of is that it doesn't share the mesh front of the Three Hundred, which I guess would help with cooling. Still, I can pick it pick for more-or-less the same price as the Three Hundred so I think I might just pull the trigger.

Thoughts?
 
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