Has anyone else given up on AIO's

[xaldub]

Have been using AIO's for approx 10 years now and never had any issues. No plans to change ; aesthetically I think it looks cleaner ( in a case with tempered glass ) but I can understand the concerns from some people regard potential pump failures / leaks. Until that happens ( hopefully never ! ) I'll carry on with AIO's.

 

[Golf1.6]

I've had 4 AIO's over the years, 2 from Corsair and 2 from another mfr which was basically a rebranded Asetek. Initially I thought they were a fantastic idea, better performance, reduced stress on the motherboard, liquid cooling, what's not to like.

While the performance is nice at the start they all failed within the useful life of the computer. Anecdotal I know but they just don't seem to last more than 3-4 years at best, most were less than 3 years. Yes Corsair did honor the warranties but it was a load of faf.

I switched back to air cooling about 4 years ago and have not looked back, just carried that same cooler onto my new build with zero issues, I just don't see the appeal of AIO's anymore when the performance of a decent air cooler is so close.

my second AIO failed, I can see the beenfits on a 3 fan model with lots of water - more reliable than conventional water cooling. But I dont overclock and just used single fan cooler.

I found it no much cooler than an air cooler. Mind you I have bought the most expensive air cooler (second hand) I can buy. a noctua nh-u12s for £30. I bought into the AIO hype and originally bought corsair h40 - which lost a critical mass of water. Then I bought an akasa a10 venom which also lost a critical mass of water, both around the year 5 mark. So they had no water to pump and computer just really badly overheated. Not unexpectly though - I could hear the quiet creep of noisy pump at boot. I ignored it for months and then one day there was no water for the pump to draw from.

AIO will give you better cooling with massive rads and higher peak temps to cool. But if you're not overclocking then they are very expensive and pointless. A single fan AIO is worse than a good air cooler. I can't believe some people use AIO in NAS and home servers - you're just asking for trouble.

 

[TrojanWhore]

I've given up on AIOs since around 2015... when I moved to custom watercooling

Seriously though, I wouldn't bother unless you are running a high end Intel chip and for whatever reason REALLY can't bring yourself to go custom - I've been using a TT single tower cooler on my 5950x for 2 years and it's all good, if a bit noisy. The peerless assassin/phantom spirit (or any dual tower cooler) is more than enough for anything AMD and probably most Intel.. and is only £35 or so. Even at £100+, I'd still go Noctua (DH15 etc) over a similarly priced AIO.
I'd love to go back to watercooling GPU too for the near silence, but blocks have got crazy expensive now - The last block I bought was a b-grade 780ti block for £30!

 

[Grim5]

I have been using AIO since 2016 never had a single problem with them.

Same here since 2016 and same, no issues at all

I've become so used to quiet PC's that there is no way I can go back to noisy air coolers. I've been using AIO on my CPU and GPU for 4 years and being able to run fans at low rpm all the time is amazing, it's just not possible with air coolers - I dare someone to find an air cooler setup that can keep a 450w GPU and 250w cpu both under 60c with 800rpm fans

 

[Rroff]

Same here since 2016 and same, no issues at all

I've become so used to quiet PC's that there is no way I can go back to noisy air coolers. I've been using AIO on my CPU and GPU for 4 years and being able to run fans at low rpm all the time is amazing, it's just not possible with air coolers - I dare someone to find an air cooler setup that can keep a 450w GPU and 250w cpu both under 60c with 800rpm fans

Not all fans are equal RPM/noise level mind - quite a few fans are actually less intrusive at ~1000RPM than lower speeds.

If you have a Corsair Air 540 case (sadly a bit outdated and unavailable now) properly setup you'll get a lot of the way there - it'll definitely keep a 250 watt CPU to around 60C with gaming type workloads (though you might have to remove the dust filters to get there), though not a chance if running something like Cinebench R23 MT.

 

[Vimes]

I might have mentioned this previously, but I enjoy the 420mm AIO as it does not need to be as reactive to changes on the CPU temperature that could be more of a blip than a trend of rising temps.
With that in mind, and quiet as become more important it seems as I age, I have the fans on the AF III 420mm set to increase with a gentle curve on a 10 second average of the CPU temp.
When I had a Noctua air cooler, humongous size, I felt that it needed to be much more responsive to changes in the temperature as it had, comparatively, less capacity to cope with those types of fluctuations noted.

 

[Game]

Which "Assassin" are you using? I ask because Thermalright has a bunch of different 'Assassin' cooler models.
Assassin Spirit 120 in many versions
Burst Assassin 120 single tower in 7 versions
Peerless Assassin 90 SE twin tower
Peerless Assassin 120 twin tower in 8 models
Peerless Assassin 140 twin tower, black & white models
Peerless Assassin 90 twin tower

went for the below in the end I thought £17 its not such a gamble I was a touch doubtful at first but set the fan on a nice slow curve and fans are silent

30 minute cinebench r23 run ( Ryzen 7 7700 nzxt h510 case so not the best airflow ) max temp 65c average 54c it was the same last night

desktop idle is 48c as I type this , temp in the room is 23c ish

Burst Assassin 120 ARGB – Thermalright

www.thermalright.com

might still change it out for a 240 aio at a later date but atm have no complaints at all

 

[PieEater]

I prefer AIOs as they're better at soaking up heat over time, so for bursty CPU loads they take longer to get to their max operating temperature if they ever do meaning your CPU has less chance of thermal throttling. Gamers Nexus did a video a while back demonstrating how a decent air cooler got to max temps at around 90 seconds whereas a decent AIO took 300 seconds under the same workload. Having said that, I have an air cooler on standby if the worst should happen.

 

[doyll]

went for the below in the end I thought £17 its not such a gamble I was a touch doubtful at first but set the fan on a nice slow curve and fans are silent

30 minute cinebench r23 run ( Ryzen 7 7700 nzxt h510 case so not the best airflow ) max temp 65c average 54c it was the same last night

desktop idle is 48c as I type this , temp in the room is 23c ish

Burst Assassin 120 ARGB – Thermalright

www.thermalright.com

might still change it out for a 240 aio at a later date but atm have no complaints at all

Pretty amazing how low priced a top tier cooler can be. . 6x 6mm heatpipes even in a small 120x52x102mm fin pack can cool a lot of wattage very well.

I prefer AIOs as they're better at soaking up heat over time, so for bursty CPU loads they take longer to get to their max operating temperature if they ever do meaning your CPU has less chance of thermal throttling. Gamers Nexus did a video a while back demonstrating how a decent air cooler got to max temps at around 90 seconds whereas a decent AIO took 300 seconds under the same workload. Having said that, I have an air cooler on standby if the worst should happen.

I think your key word is "decent air cooler".

Actually "soaking up heat" is only good as long as it cooler is able to release all the heat component generates.
The faster a cooler can dissipate the heat it soaks up from CPU / GPU. the cooler CPU / GPU will be.
That's why it's more important how many watts a cooler can cool than how long it takes to heat soak it.

I didn't see that GN video so don't know what all he said.
What is even more important is how many watts / how much heat an air cooler / AIO can dissipate into air!
That's what keeps things cool.

Short few second to minute duration peak loads can run on AIO many times before fans have to speed up to cool coolant. In some applications even longer. Air cooler fans need to start ramping up after a minute or less.
You said Gamer Nexus video shows both air and AIO peaked at 90c. That's below throttle point so no throttling so both cool as needed.
I'm sure air cooler fan/s spin up sooner than AIO fans, so likely becomes audible sooner than AIO. Much depends on case fan setup.

Reason air cooler peaks in about 90 seconds (often less) is because it's transferring heat from very small amount of coolant into fins, than to air as fast as it comes into cooler! That's how heat pipes work. They boil coolant in heat pipe in base, expanding vapor pushed vapor toward ends of heat pipe, where it cools enough to condense into heat pipe wick radiating heat into fins and away in fan airflow thru fins.

Reason AIO takes so much longer to saturate is because it's much longer for coolant to flow from waterblock to radiator and back, cycling around and around as coolant temp and radiator heats up transferring heat from radiator (fins) into air fan is moving air thru. The very low coolant flowrate of AIOs also increases time it takes to heat up. A typical AIO holds 100-200ml of coolant. The exact amount can vary depending on the radiator size & thickness and AIO model. Slim 360mm AIO rad holds about 150ml, so 360mm rad AIO might hold 300ml. Just 360mm custom loop rads hold 300ml, and complete loop are like 1 liter (1000ml). Pumps in AIOs max flow rate is 0.2-0.3 gallons per minute /45-68L/h. Most commonly used custom loop pump (D5) flows about 396 gallons per hour (1500L/h).

Reason I as "AIO pumps flow similar to healthy adult male" is because the average urine output for average 70kg healthy adult is 35-70 ml/hour.

Healthy adult ****** at a rate of 36 - 75.6 l/hour​

AIO pumps have a flow rate of 24 - 70 l/h with a very few reaching 100 l/h.​

So, I say AIO pumps flow like you do after drinking a few pints. I say 'you are' because I'm old and slow.​

So air cooler fans spin up in 1 1/2 minutes and AIO fans spin up in 6 minutes.
Best case is both will keep things cool for long sessions.
Worst case is CPU throttles sooner under air cooler than under AIO.

There are many air cooler out there that can cool 200-300w. Obviously more wattage means more noise
Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power, Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme & Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme are rated 360w
While some AIOs can cool more, most AIOs can't.
240mm rads are good up to about 240w .. with lots of noise
360mm up to about 350w .. but noisy
420mm top out at about 400w.

​

​

Gamer Nexus also said:

"AIOs generally excel at cooling the VRMs (Voltage Regulator Modules) on the motherboard, which are responsible for providing power to the CPU. However, some AIOs may struggle with VRM cooling, especially when noise levels are reduced, as seen in Gamers Nexus's testing of the EVGA CLC 360."​

​

In my 20-30+ years of computer use and cooling experience, VRM cooling is mostly dependent on good case airflow .. and most stock cases don't come with enough case fans .. and or they are installed in wrong locations so don't give good case airflow. Exception was 1366 VRM Mosfet heat issue. Even with good case airflow they got hot!

​

Most of the time running AIOs simply means user ends up using way more fans(more case fans) .. simply because most AIOs have fans mounted on radiator which is mounted on case vents, and user uses stock case fans to other vents, so like twice as many case fans moving air thru case.

Adding 2 or 3 more case fans at least doubles case fans! Seems like simple common sense cases using AIOs will generally have more case airflow than a stock case.

But the key to good, quiet cooling requires setting up case airflow! That way all components needing cooling have cool air (air @ or very near room ambient) cooling them.

I'll say it again, more often than not case fan placement out of the box is does not give case good airflow!!

 

[w3bbo]

Used to be mad for custom watercooling. These days I just slap a decent AIO in a case and call it a day. Unless you really need the extra 1 or 2c drop an AIO will do. Miss the aesthetics of a custom loop but not the hassle or the price!

 

[jigger]

90% of AIO’s are completely pointless cheap tat now well at least as modern desktop CPUs go. An AIO makes sense for dealing with 350 watt plus video card.

 

[doyll]

Used to be mad for custom watercooling. These days I just slap a decent AIO in a case and call it a day. Unless you really need the extra 1 or 2c drop an AIO will do. Miss the aesthetics of a custom loop but not the hassle or the price!

Sorry, but while AiOs and custom loops have some similarities their component quality and performance are near polar opposites. AIOs use the absolute cheapest parts with lowest flowrates and poorest quality while custom loops use absolute best components.

Custom Loop pumps move up to 1500L/h, that's 10 time or more than AiO pumps do.
AIO rads, pumps, waterblocks, hoses, etc are only marginally better than junk while custom loop components are extremely good quality. Even worst custom loop components are way, way better quality and performance than AiOs.

It's like comparing a miniature horse to a real horses. Miniature horse look almost like real horses (can kinda walk and run & maybe pull miniature cart/wagon) but can't really do what real horses can (like be ridden, pull carriages, wagons, etc) .. just like a AiO cools compared to custom loop cooling.

Custom loops last extremely long time, especially when maintained properly.
Custom loops can cool 3-500 watts of heat and remain almost silent.

AiOs don't last near as long, especially when trying to cool hi-heat CPUs .. and make lots of noise cooling high wattages.

AiO = in-breed house cat or stray alley cat
Custom loop = Bengal Tiger or snow leopard

I don't care if you use AiOs, but please don't think they are anything but what they are; cheap imitations of quality water cooling systems.

 

[w3bbo]

Calm down sweetheart.

Where exactly did I say AIOs were in any way better than a custom setup? Your tone seems to suggest I haven't a scooby doo about WC. I'm well aware of the positives of a custom loop. I've been watercooling way back to the Danger Den days. Todays 'custom loops' are anything but 'custom' as all the components these days are hardly customised, they are all off the shelf products that can be bundled together without very much research or effort, at least not how it was when watercooling a PC was niche. Gone are the radical days when a radiator pulled from a car and a pond pump with some air hose was used to build a 'custom loop'.

I'm merely stating that unless you are chasing those extra few centigrade, an AIO will suffice. It may not look as good, perform as well or last as long but this is offset by ease of use and cost. I have 3 AIOs now of which my sons PC (now a media box) still has an original corsair 120 AIO that is over 10 years old and is still running fine. Is it performing as well as it was from day 1? Doubtful. Does it do the job still? Yup. I've got a phanteks 420 AIO cooling a 9800x3d@5445mhz. Does the job perfectly fine. Would a 'custom loop' do it better? Yeah sure but an AIO will do perfectly fine too.

I notice you have a GB X58 in your sig, very nice. Might wanna check out a 'custom loop' I made for this board over 16 years ago!

Project Angel

In future you may want to check out someones profile before assuming they don't know what they are talking about or attempt to educate on the subject matter through assumed lack of understanding .

 

[doyll]

Calm down sweetheart.

Where exactly did I say AIOs were in any way better than a custom setup? Your tone seems to suggest I haven't a scooby doo about WC. I'm well aware of the positives of a custom loop. I've been watercooling way back to the Danger Den days. Todays 'custom loops' are anything but 'custom' as all the components these days are hardly customised, they are all off the shelf products that can be bundled together without very much research or effort, at least not how it was when watercooling a PC was niche. Gone are the radical days when a radiator pulled from a car and a pond pump with some air hose was used to build a 'custom loop'.

I'm merely stating that unless you are chasing those extra few centigrade, an AIO will suffice. It may not look as good, perform as well or last as long but this is offset by ease of use and cost. I have 3 AIOs now of which my sons PC (now a media box) still has an original corsair 120 AIO that is over 10 years old and is still running fine. Is it performing as well as it was from day 1? Doubtful. Does it do the job still? Yup. I've got a phanteks 420 AIO cooling a 9800x3d@5445mhz. Does the job perfectly fine. Would a 'custom loop' do it better? Yeah sure but an AIO will do perfectly fine too.

I notice you have a GB X58 in your sig, very nice. Might wanna check out a 'custom loop' I made for this board over 16 years ago!

Project Angel

In future you may want to check out someones profile before assuming they don't know what they are talking about or attempt to educate on the subject matter through assumed lack of understanding .

Come on honeybuch, you didn't say AiOs were better, but you did said "Unless you really need the extra 1 or 2c drop an AIO will do." As if AiOs only had marginally lower performance than custom loops. That's like saying "Unless you really need the extra 1 or 2c drop a good air cooler will do." The difference between AiOs (good air coolers) and custom loops is way more than "extra 1 or 2c." Hence the miniature horse to real horse analogy. With a 80-130w CPU maybe, but if you are cooling 200-250w probably 5-7c, and 300w is pushing limits of even a 360mm AiO. Compound this with many custom loops cooling both CPU and GPU making total wattages even higher.

Comparing AiOs to custom loops is like comparing little 2 person sub-compact cars to over-the road tractor trailers / lorries. (you know, mini-horse vs real horse)

Even comparing a 4 person compact to big truck / lorry while not as extreme is still a good example of the differences between most AiOs and custom loops.

Misinformation and lack of knowledge is how AiO market got so many users. Many buyer thought like your post said, that AiOs were basically low end, pre-built custom loops .. compact vs lorry.

Phanteks 420 AiO .. do you mean Glacier One 420D30? I don't know much about it. Think they are around $200 / £200? They don't publish any pump flowrate or lift specs, so probably quite low flowrate.

Years ago I used Swiftech H240 with pump rated 660 L/h. Used one of be quiet's first Pure Loop 280 with fill port and threaded fittings, not sure what flow rate was but mine calculated to be about 160-200 L/h running it into container about 30-32cm above it (about 1 foot of lift). I added a used Pure Loop 360mm rad to that loop. Also used Alpacool Eisbaer with pump rated 72 - 480 L/h. When I was using them I played a bit with a couple of Asetek AiOs. At same noise levels on that old x58 it was 7c hotter. To be fair, it only had a 240mm rad, same as Swiftech had. Didn't have water temp so don't know what temp coolant ran on any of them.

Yeah, that old x58 was a beast. Still have it, but not using it. Using 3600 now and it's way faster with more cores and less heat. Under Thermalright Silver Soul 135 it runs well. It's just barely audible at peak load rendering graphics in high 70s but is a bit on the warm side at idle with lots of backgrounds apps running (34-38c).

I did a quick scan thru Project Angel. You did a great job on it. Lots of work and skill in that build. I need to watch it more closely.

I did a few really nice builds back then; Best was a Phanteks Enthoo Pro water cooled on 6x 25mm double wheel castors.

https://www.overclock.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.overclock.net/attachments/1655665051352-png.2564416/

I don't need to check out someone's profile when a statement like "Unless you really need the extra 1 or 2c drop an AIO will do" is made.
Peeps read "Unless you really need the extra 1 or 2c drop an AIO will do." and take it at face value thinking it's a fact, when that's not really true.
I fired at what I quoted you saying, not your knowledge and skill level.

 

[w3bbo]

P

Come on honeybuch, you didn't say AiOs were better, but you did said "Unless you really need the extra 1 or 2c drop an AIO will do." As if AiOs only had marginally lower performance than custom loops. That's like saying "Unless you really need the extra 1 or 2c drop a good air cooler will do." The difference between AiOs (good air coolers) and custom loops is way more than "extra 1 or 2c." Hence the miniature horse to real horse analogy. With a 80-130w CPU maybe, but if you are cooling 200-250w probably 5-7c, and 300w is pushing limits of even a 360mm AiO. Compound this with many custom loops cooling both CPU and GPU making total wattages even higher.

Comparing AiOs to custom loops is like comparing little 2 person sub-compact cars to over-the road tractor trailers / lorries. (you know, mini-horse vs real horse)

Even comparing a 4 person compact to big truck / lorry while not as extreme is still a good example of the differences between most AiOs and custom loops.

Misinformation and lack of knowledge is how AiO market got so many users. Many buyer thought like your post said, that AiOs were basically low end, pre-built custom loops .. compact vs lorry.

Phanteks 420 AiO .. do you mean Glacier One 420D30? I don't know much about it. Think they are around $200 / £200? They don't publish any pump flowrate or lift specs, so probably quite low flowrate.

Years ago I used Swiftech H240 with pump rated 660 L/h. Used one of be quiet's first Pure Loop 280 with fill port and threaded fittings, not sure what flow rate was but mine calculated to be about 160-200 L/h running it into container about 30-32cm above it (about 1 foot of lift). I added a used Pure Loop 360mm rad to that loop. Also used Alpacool Eisbaer with pump rated 72 - 480 L/h. When I was using them I played a bit with a couple of Asetek AiOs. At same noise levels on that old x58 it was 7c hotter. To be fair, it only had a 240mm rad, same as Swiftech had. Didn't have water temp so don't know what temp coolant ran on any of them.

Yeah, that old x58 was a beast. Still have it, but not using it. Using 3600 now and it's way faster with more cores and less heat. Under Thermalright Silver Soul 135 it runs well. It's just barely audible at peak load rendering graphics in high 70s but is a bit on the warm side at idle with lots of backgrounds apps running (34-38c).

I did a quick scan thru Project Angel. You did a great job on it. Lots of work and skill in that build. I need to watch it more closely.

I did a few really nice builds back then; Best was a Phanteks Enthoo Pro water cooled on 6x 25mm double wheel castors.

https://www.overclock.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.overclock.net/attachments/1655665051352-png.2564416/

I don't need to check out someone's profile when a statement like "Unless you really need the extra 1 or 2c drop an AIO will do" is made.
Peeps read "Unless you really need the extra 1 or 2c drop an AIO will do." and take it at face value thinking it's a fact, when that's not really true.
I fired at what I quoted you saying, not your knowledge and skill level.

So you admit you were wrong. I never said AIOs were better, I said they will do the job. As you appear to like analogies, a custom loop is akin to a sports car while an AIO is akin to a fast car while aircooling is your every day run about. Each has its uses, each performs at different levels but they will all get you from A-B.

Flow rate doesn't have a massive effect on temps. So long as there's good enough head pressure to force water through rad(s) and other restrictions at a suitable rate temps equalise. I tested this on a 4x360 mountain mods build with 2x ultra 18w ddcs vs a single 10w. Temp differences were negligible. Its the rad surface area, cpu block, ambient temp and fan speed/cfm that will lower temps more in my experience. Most aios have a simple block and a rad so restriction is low ergo no need for high pressure/large pump. Its been proven many times on many forums that high flow vs sufficient flow makes negligible temp difference.

I maintain, obviously dependent on setups used and other variables, that a good AIO will do the job fine. A 1c to 2c difference between a good aio vs custom loop is also perfectly achieable dependent on use case and components used. I wouldn't expect a 'custom' 240rad setup to perform better than a 420 AIO. Would you? Unless custom loops have evolved so much they can break physics that is.

Much the same as a top end air cooler is comparable to a entry/mid range AIO. A much bigger gap however is also foreseeable, particularly if we're talking about high watts as you say. Horses for courses. Each requirement demands different approaches. My AIO has temps (within 1-2c) comparable to a custom loop using the same cpu at the same clockspeed from what ive seen. Hard to exactly compare like for like due to the many variances (ambient temps, mounting etc etc). All things equal of course a custom loop will perform better but again, I maintain a good AIO gets the job done.

When you start pumping CPU with high voltages and high clocks, adding in gpu block, chipset blocks etc is where a custom loops will seriously outperform AIOs for sure. Like everything, it would depend on use case, components used, even ambient temps and mounting strategy can have huge effects on temps. That doesn't mean every AIO is trash nor does it mean go custom loop or go home. An AIO is perfectly suitable for 'most' use cases imo.

Your last sentence is a contradiction. You tried educating me on custom loops - unnecessary if you checked a profile rather than just wading in. My statement was based on my knowledge which you wrongly asumed was minimal given your attempt at an educative statement. Your experiences may lead you to a different conclusion and that's fine. They're just opinions based on experiences. There are no 'facts'.

 

[doyll]

P

So you admit you were wrong. I never said AIOs were better, I said they will do the job. As you appear to like analogies, a custom loop is akin to a sports car while an AIO is akin to a fast car while aircooling is your every day run about. Each has its uses, each performs at different levels but they will all get you from A-B.

Flow rate doesn't have a massive effect on temps. So long as there's good enough head pressure to force water through rad(s) and other restrictions at a suitable rate temps equalise. I tested this on a 4x360 mountain mods build with 2x ultra 18w ddcs vs a single 10w. Temp differences were negligible. Its the rad surface area, cpu block, ambient temp and fan speed/cfm that will lower temps more in my experience. Most aios have a simple block and a rad so restriction is low ergo no need for high pressure/large pump. Its been proven many times on many forums that high flow vs sufficient flow makes negligible temp difference.

I maintain, obviously dependent on setups used and other variables, that a good AIO will do the job fine. A 1c to 2c difference between a good aio vs custom loop is also perfectly achieable dependent on use case and components used. I wouldn't expect a 'custom' 240rad setup to perform better than a 420 AIO. Would you? Unless custom loops have evolved so much they can break physics that is.

Much the same as a top end air cooler is comparable to a entry/mid range AIO. A much bigger gap however is also foreseeable, particularly if we're talking about high watts as you say. Horses for courses. Each requirement demands different approaches. My AIO has temps (within 1-2c) comparable to a custom loop using the same cpu at the same clockspeed from what ive seen. Hard to exactly compare like for like due to the many variances (ambient temps, mounting etc etc). All things equal of course a custom loop will perform better but again, I maintain a good AIO gets the job done.

When you start pumping CPU with high voltages and high clocks, adding in gpu block, chipset blocks etc is where a custom loops will seriously outperform AIOs for sure. Like everything, it would depend on use case, components used, even ambient temps and mounting strategy can have huge effects on temps. That doesn't mean every AIO is trash nor does it mean go custom loop or go home. An AIO is perfectly suitable for 'most' use cases imo.

Your last sentence is a contradiction. You tried educating me on custom loops - unnecessary if you checked a profile rather than just wading in. My statement was based on my knowledge which you wrongly asumed was minimal given your attempt at an educative statement. Your experiences may lead you to a different conclusion and that's fine. They're just opinions based on experiences. There are no 'facts'.

Your comparison of AiO to custom loop gives reader who don't know any better the impression AiOs are only a few degrees less less capable than custom loop.

That is what I addressed in both of my replies to you.

The consensus of people informed about water cooling agree temps go up as flowrates drop below about 70L/h. Pumps in many if not most AiOs flow considerably less than 70L/h.

Higher flowrates mean better heat transfer from component to coolant.

My last sentence was:
I fired at what I quoted you saying, not your knowledge and skill level.

I fired at your statement "Unless you really need the extra 1 or 2c drop an AIO will do"

The difference between AiOs and custom loops is way more involved than you simple statement.

That is why I keep posting messages.

Again, comparing AiOs to custom loops involves all kinds of things besides "1 or 2c drop". Things like quality and lifespan of waterblock, pump and radiator plus hose and other components. Almost no AiOs have a realistic way of topping up coolant or servicing. This limits life, especially when cooling a hot component.