Has car manufacturing quality gone downhill or is it just me?

[TechMinerUK]

I'll preface this by saying I haven't owned many cars but recently I've felt as though a lot of the new cars on the market have really sub-standard quality/finishing.

I remember when my mum and dad bought cars in the past and you could walk down the side of them with your coat on, stand on the sills, drive them without worry and they'd get a few marks here or there but they could always be polished out without anyone being able to see them

Now though it seems that you so much as look at the paint work or the wheels funny and it gets a mark deep enough into the clear coat to warrant a respray.

Even when it's not damage related the quality of the paint work that's turfed out just feels sub-par from the paintwork being contaminated to in some cases just flat out not having enough on and being able to see through to the basecoat.

The past two cars I've owned have been relatively new and have either had really soft and delicate paintwork or the wheels on them have barely been able to cope with standard usage without suffering damage.

Part of the reason for this post is that this morning I just found a scratch/chip on my wheel on a car which is less than 2 years old and that has done less than 3000 miles on the left side (So it's not even facing oncoming traffic at the best of times)

/rant

Is it just me or does anyone else think the same or have similar stories of newer cars having suboptimal quality?

 

[TechMinerUK]

Definitely has with the push for "green" and recyclable materials. Some plastics aren't far from cheese, paint is thin and soft. Anything gloss plastic especially is going to scratch immediately. If you look at interiors from 15-20 years ago the plastics are much thicker and harder even on cheap cars.

I've managed to put scratches in some modern interior plastics while using trim tools, which are soft plastic designed NOT to scratch things If you need to remove any clipped on trim parts, they are likely going to break now as they are so fragile.

Urgh, removing trim is a nightmare now with the cheap plastic clips and latches. Even when they aren't directly exposed to the heat of the engine just being in the interior and heating/cooling overtime makes them brittle and certain to snap!

I’m in slight disagreement, I think manufacturing standards have got better over the years, general fit and finish is probably better. The issue is how advanced materials and tech have become that everything's so easy to break.. you could say the same about phones for example, how easy is it to scratch or break an iphone compared to an old Nokia..

Cars are also very disposable, people don’t look after or service them right.

I think you are right on manufacturing tolerance being better e.g. panel gap and the overall fitting together of parts but the parts themselves are definitely worse. That being said the newer iPhones I have used seem to be more durable than the older moddles such as the 3G/3GS which would shatter into smitherines when dropped onto a hard floor.

 

[TechMinerUK]

Materials have got worse. Cost cutting is evident everywhere.

In other ways they have got better. Overall fit and finish is largely better. Technology has become a problem, a hindrance. I blame both the manufacturers and legislators.

Although I personally think cars peaked in the mid 2000’s.

Agreed loud and clear on that one, just enough technology in them to make them useful without having a daft tablet at the front of the car where everything is controlled from and nice enough looks without having everything be a pain to replace when it goes wrong.

Cars now look nice but when something goes wrong it's extortionate to fix (If its possible at all)

 

[TechMinerUK]

I’ve always thought that the plastic in my 2017 Honda CR-V was softer and more easily marked than it was in my 2014 CR-V as well as the entire cabin being a bit more creak prone.

Plastic in my 2017 Duster is as hard as 2014 Honda, with the creaminess of the 2017 model. Not a problem in a vehicle built in post Warsaw Pact Romania using 60+% old Renault parts as everything creaks or rattles or both all the time anyway.

Of course, the 2017 Duster was half the price of the 2017 CR-V.

Completely agree on this, the 2013 Citroen I used to have had a basic but robust interior, on the occasion the plastics got marked they could be easily polished out whereas now the scratches on that horrible glossy plastic seem to cut deep into it.

Likewise interiors on previous cars whilst less "flashy" seemed to put up with a lot more stick, I'd much rather take a matte dashboard with a bit of texture over fingerprint mania of glossy plastics (I had the similar pet peeve when Microsoft changed the material between the Xbox 360 and Xbox One)

And if you do get a black screen of death, you don't just lose the radio now. You'll lose AC, heating, and all sort of car options and settings. It may be a digital dash cluster as well which is all part of the same system. It will basically make the car un-usable.

My Mrs had an issue with this a while back on her Citroen when she went over a speed bump and it knocked out the entertainment system but that also meant she lost access to the front and rear window heaters which isn't ideal when its the middle of winter

I don't get why there has been a recent push to stick everything on one system, not only that but the computers behind them are more often than not poorly optimised and laggy messes meaning if you want to change the radio and turn on the heater it takes ages to do that which is more distracting than just having a dial

 

[TechMinerUK]

VW MEB have the speedo and HUD separate to the infotainment. Are you not just thinking of Telsa model 3 when you say no speedo with no infotainment

I get what @Nasher means though in that having everything on one or two displays is a problem waiting to happen, as an example on my old 308 I had a glitch where the dash and infotainment unit went kaput on one journey and I had no idea what speed I was doing so I had to pull over to the hard shoulder and wait for it to fix itself.

At least if just the infotainment unit is on a screen you can still see what speed you are doing and control the heat etc

Old cars are rubbish too as if the engine breaks the car is equally useless ??

Weirdly my born drives fine even with the screen turned off. I have a Speedo too. Let’s not listen to nasher about EV. Seems the closest he has to experience is by sitting in a passenger seat of a Tesla

True but it's been a while since I have seen a car with an engine go pop whereas with newer cars I find that the components around the engine seem to be more susceptible to problems.

I wouldn't say it's just EV's but rather any car thats decided to lump all its controls into a few screens, stuff like the new Volkswagen/Audi/Seat/Skoda and Stelantis range seem to be the biggest culprits but even Fords and Hondas seem to have gone the same way.

I've known a few friends who have had issues with units on Hondas and Nissans where they have been quoted exuberant amounts to replace the unit on cars that aren't super old to the point where I'd expect issues with digital components (2017/2018 models)

 

[TechMinerUK]

Name anything in life that has gone up in quality. Cost is the focus. To be honest though it’s a bit of an assumption to link that scratch to quality. That could have been anything you hit that would have marked any wheel regardless of age.

Fair however I didn't actually hit anything (Well technically something I guess but its not like I kerbed it) however I would expect a car to cope with "wear and tear" without damaging something like the wheels. I'd expect them to be robust enough to put up with the odd bits of grit and dirt without permanent damage

Likewise I've owned previous cars where the paintwork has stood up to the odd flick of dirt better than the newer cars. As one of the other posters mentioned it's likely down to the paintwork being spread thiner with a finer/shallower layer of clear coat

If I drove the car into a tree then I'd happily take it as a me issue but this car barely gets used so I think it being a quality/manufacturing/fit for purpose issue is fair

Sounds like it's a problem that already can happen then, whether you've got screens or not

Valid point however it's not something I have experienced in cars that had standard spedometers etc before

 

[TechMinerUK]

Indeed. Let’s not mention Ford S max clusters.

Let’s be honest too. The one thing that has got massively better is electronics reliability

Good point as whilst the bodywork and overall interior seems to have gone down whilst there are the odd problems with slow infotainment systems its a far cry compared to what used to happen with the older Freelanders where you'd get a bit of water on it and all of a sudden the car wouldn't start

Swings and roundabouts I guess and if it comes down to the car not starting or worse paintwork then the starting makes sense as the priority

One. Or two? The issue was one display only in a car. Most have two.

You're right, in the case for me both the digital displays went off however I guess if whatever went weird affected the actual spedometer system (I'll preface this by I have no idea if that would be the case as I never got an answer as to what actually went wrong on my car) then it wouldn't have mattered if it was a traditional spedo or a screen

For me I don't mind having the digital stuff for radio stations, Android Auto, reverse cameras etc as they are "nice to haves" but things such as heating, speed, revs etc I prefer on dials. If they are duplicated on a digital display thats fine but it's personal preference I like to have them as dials and seperate buttons

Before the thread becomes a "Hate digital" thread I'd disagree that its the biggest issue in the deterioration in quality. Don't get me wrong some infotainment units are laggy messes (The Citroen/Peugeot ones are naff) but the ones in Seats, Audi, BMW etc are actually pretty decent from what I've used. On the whole anyway (I'd expect the odd glitch when connecting devices in the same way I'd expect a glitch everynow and then on older cars with the stereo flicking between stations)

 

[TechMinerUK]

But the paint content is much more limited by regulations now than it used to be. It just cannot be made as tough or long lasting as it used to be.

Also some manufacturers just cut costs in that area. I've seen old and quite high mileage Kias with barely any stone chips, yet some new and very expensive cars are peppered with them after only a few years.

This is my thought as well, I know that paint regulations are a lot of more stringent over the products used to make them (Most are water based now if I remember correctly) and whilst the paint uniformity and application may be better I would say the wear and tear is debateable.

That's not to say all old paints were great, as someone else put I also remember seeing lots of old Zafiras, Cors and Micras with faded red paint and stripped bonets where the clear coat has failed however I've also seen that on "Newer-older" cars as well and would certainly put the clear coat failure down to elements of poor maintenance etc.

The difference I've found is that if you are someone who looks after your cars and the paintwork/bodywork the newer ones seem to still be problematic whereas if you had an older car which may have had a worse paint application such as an MGF, MR2, MX5, Corsa etc providing you looked after them by washing them properly and storing them etc they seem to be more resilient against general day to day wear and tear.

I'm sure there are exceptions but newer paint seems more fragile against chips whilst it probably is more resistent to UV exposure etc

 

[TechMinerUK]

If you compare the 106 GTi i bought my ex wife back in the day from new to the 208 GT i bought my current partners lad this year new it’s no comparison. On any level bar driving, the 208 kills the 106. It’s a far far better car.

The old pocket rocket GTi still the most fun mind, but the quality of everything and the safety is vastly better on the new car.

Safety is definitely improved on newer cars and with Peugeots the paintwork has probably gotten better granted the 208 me and my partner went to view back in 2021 was a shocker. Looked like someone had poured paint stripper over it there were that many reactions on the roof (Hadn't been resprayed either)

Granted I guess sometimes there is bound to be a "lemon" although with Peugeot/Citroen theres a heck of a lot more lemons

 

[TechMinerUK]

I recently had a look at a friends new car, a 2018 Volvo S90 D5, he's the second owner it's done 53k miles, the first thing I noticed which surprised me greatly is how sagging and worn the seats looked especially compared to my 18 year old V70's seats with 208k miles of use, whilst they are a little marked in places there's no obvious wear or sagging whatsoever.

Thats an interesting one as I would have said the seats are one of the bits that has improved as when I compare the old MR2 and MGF that my dad had to the V40 he had with leather seats they had faired much better considering they had been around for the same amount of time at the time he bought the cars.

However that could be more due to the better leather protection products that are around nowadays (Or that the other cars were convertibles and got battered by the weather)

 

[TechMinerUK]

Agree with the number of sensors etc causing problems, "my" 2023 Scania - the one you sat in at the motors meet - whilst mechanically has been great so far over ~ 130k miles, the electronics have been a real pain especially compared to the 2018 model it replaced.

Numerous sensor faults, engine temperature sensor fault (twice, both time making the ECU think it was overheating which it it into an effectively undriveable limp mode as it drastically reduced the engine power) the radar collision avoidance system whilst great when it works keeps activating needlessly as the sensors lose calibration, not great for following traffic as the damn thing performs an emergency stop for no reason!

The infotainment system freezes every couple of weeks, you can hard reset it which loses any stored data, it's not just my truck that does this from what my colleagues tell me they all do.

Every time it goes to Scania for it's mandatory inspection or service I mention the numerous issues and am met with a shrug of the shoulders and an "they all do it" attitude, although they do acknowledge it's a common problem across the industry as a whole not just Scania.

Whilst mechanical reliability has improved greatly over the years on vehicles in general, I think in the future it'll be the electronics that sends them to the breakers long before the drivetrain does.

I agree, mechanical reliability has improved but I think whilst the increase in sensors has given us a better ability to identify when something is going to go wrong (Or when it has gone wrong to compensate until its fixed) half the battle now is that diagnosing issues on the sensors has become a near impossible task.

Take my old 308, when all the electrics in the car went off it then started coming up with a P20E08 warning which covers a multitude of things from emissions to the Adblue tank however despite using various readers I could get no further to actually fixing the problem without going to Peugeot and dropping £200 on a diagnostics test which would likely tell me the same thing.

All these sensors but the actual ability to advise customers of what the issue is is still locked behind high cost paywalls and even then guarantees no fix.

On a similar note my old Skoda had a known fault where the sensors on the timing belt had a habbit of "misalligning" which put the car into limp mode despite nothing being wrong, I never had that with the 107 I had before which whilst a "completely basic" car just seemed to work regardless of the circumstances with no issues of sensors going awol, and that car was 10 years old when I bought it

Mine is an ex Police car (so I'm told) and has cloth seats so you'd expect them to be completely wrecked especially given its former life but not at all, my mates S90 has leather seats which hadn't cracked but they still looked so sagged and generally tired...

That is interesting unless they gave it a deep restoration before they sold it however it seems unlikely. Your friends Volvo with sagged seats is surprising as well as I would have put Volvo as one of the better manufacturers for interior quality

 

[TechMinerUK]

Have a look on auto trader, the interiors are full of scratches and the seat fabric showing signs of use on fairly new cars, especially Volvos. I guess their (Volvo) new owners have cut down the costs.

Can you actually blame them though? Perhaps the original Volvo ethos was unviable because people don't want to pay for premium, just perceived premium, aka shiny plastics and sport badges etc.

You are likely right about the premium aspect as that is why SAAB bit the dust

 

[TechMinerUK]

I think the "everything you own must be grey" fad is finally over.

I remember when my mum got a KA back in 06 and the stock list of colours was essentially "Anything not metalic you can have with your car without cost"

Meanwhile last year when my brother in law and Grandma went to get there cars they had a choice of white or grey or get hit with a £600 - £1000 extra cost for requesting a different colour. Granted those were Cupras and on my Audi I had that choice of red, yellow, black, grey, grey (Other) and white (I picked grey, don't judge)

 

[TechMinerUK]

Strange because Seat will give you any colour you like including metallic/pearl for nothing.

Could be the third party they bought/leased them through potentially then? I'll be honest I've never dealt with leases so not sure if they have more restrictions on etc. Would make sense if they did because I'm guessing a hot-pink car is a lot harder to resell then a grey one

 

[TechMinerUK]

My near 20 year old French car has been massively more reliable than the Fords and Vauxhalls I used to own. The Ford was especially a heap of junk that rusted into oblivion by age 12. Total rubbish that Ford was.

Vauxhall are attrocious for quality now, my sister has a Adam and the paintwork on that is appalling to the point where you can see through to the undercoat where the bumper meets the the bonet.

My step-dad had a Insignia and that was no better as well considering it's meant to be an answer to the Mondeo, the engine decided to see gods garage 6 years in with mainly motorway miles

 

[TechMinerUK]

A friend had a brand new Corsa last year (new company car every year) and it had electrical issues right from the start. Things like auto wipers not working etc. Vauxhall never figured it out and it was still knacked when it was handed back a few weeks ago.

One of my mates at work had a relative with a Corsa where the car came what can only be described as "miss-alligned" where the doors were completely out of wack and wouldn't shut properly.

I've never heard of that before or since and I have no idea how they managed it but I would but Vauxhall as one of the worst brands out there

 

[TechMinerUK]

EU term too

Right to repair: the EU’s actions to make repairs more attractive | Topics | European Parliament

After pushing for it for years, MEPs have adopted legislation that guarantees the right to repair products that can be fixed.

www.europarl.europa.eu

I mean, right to repair is a descriptive term isn't it, it's hardly tied to one country although it may be more prominent in some due to a lack of regulations
We've been pushing it as well:

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9302/CBP-9302.pdf

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9302/