Has car manufacturing quality gone downhill or is it just me?

[Deleted User 298457]

Cars last far longer these days. Some people are deluded. "In my day cars would all last 30 years".

Cars on the road by year:

how dare you invalidate my boomer feelings with fact!!!

 

[muon]

This website is also cool. Especially if you can find cars that were only sold in a single year.

BMW 320I EDITION M SPORT - How Many Left?

Statistics for BMW 320I EDITION M SPORT.. See how many cars of any make and model are left on Britain's roads.

www.howmanyleft.co.uk

This car was only sold in 2008. 16 to 17 years later, half are still licensed and taxed to be on the road. Some of the SORN ones are also probably fine.

 

[sigma]

Cars last far longer these days. Some people are deluded. "In my day cars would all last 30 years".

Cars on the road by year:

Is that saying that there are more 13yr old cars about?

That doesn't mean the same will be true in 13 years time. They could also be longer lasting but lower quality cars.

Quality isn't also purely reliability either. It's many things. Look at how used the seats on fairly new Volvos look, for example.

 

[muon]

Is that saying that there are more 13yr old cars about?

That doesn't mean the same will be true in 14 years time.

Quality isn't also purely reliability. It's many things. Look at how used the seats on fairly new Volvos look, for example.

Well mechanical quality is probably the most important thing in a car.

And yes, maybe cars literally being built now, might be less reliable and we will find out in a few years as they throw major faults. But the general trend suggests otherwise. Its the benefit of improving technology, materials and engineering.

 

[sigma]

Well mechanical quality is probably the most important thing in a car.

And yes, maybe cars literally being built now, might be less reliable and we will find out in a few years. But the general trend suggests otherwise.

The context of the OP wasn't about reliability

Paint quality is shocking on a lot of new cars

 

[muon]

The context of the OP wasn't about reliability

Paint quality is shocking on a lot of new cars

Paint is something that is significantly better these days.

Lacquer peel is very common on older cars after 10 years outside.

 

[sigma]

Paint is something that is significantly better these days.

I was at a car show once where a 20 year old Nissan had better paint quality than a McLaren, they were parked next to each other. Anecdotal I know but still... The McLaren was flaking, and body trim was loose also.

Orange peel is so common also.

 

[muon]

I was at a car show once where a 20 year old Nissan has better quality than a McLaren. Anecdotal I know but still...

Orange peel is so common also.

I mean, neither of those cars are representative of the average car.

The average Toyota will have much better paint than an average Toyota 20 years ago. Paint technology is just better.

 

[Calpol]

The construct of a car has completely changed in the last 5-10 years. Software content by cost will be close to 30%. This requires cost saving in other areas hence the pressure on supply chain to value engineer some of the components. The other factor is that legislation has forced a lot of safety measures to be engineered. There is a lot of cost pressure as they push towards electrification and more autonomous capability. It's only now that battery packs are reaching a $/KWH point where ICE and EV have parity. The problem is that we don't really need a lot of the tech and therefore its hard to get customers to pay for it. Mechanically I think quality is better than ever - software, meh - its not so good - the Chinese and Tesla have a 3/4 year lead in that respect.

Personally I don't like all the LED screen real estate and warning system but it's the way things are going. Progress isn't always better imo.

 

[Werewolf]

Think you're forgetting the fact most things would have visible rust on them after 5 or so years in the 90s, anything red would oxidise etc. Cars on the whole are much more reliable when you consider all the extra regulation hoisted upon manufacturers.

My dad always points out that when people talk of the "classic cars of the 60's and 70's" they're forgetting that most of the ones they're thinking of either rusted out or were scrapped due to major issues quite early compared to the average car from say the 90's.

He remembers the days when a 5-7 year old car routinely needed major welding work on important structural parts, whilst even the cheapest modern cars tend to have a 5-7 year warranty on the frame these days as they're all made out of more rust resistant materials, or have a much better coating applied at the factory compared to back then (if any was applied at all).

Your comment on the red reminds me of how popular pink Corsa's and Astras were about 4 years after they were released.
I'm also reminded of how at various points paintwork needed a lot more active care to maintain it.

 

[Rroff]

I was at a car show once where a 20 year old Nissan had better paint quality than a McLaren, they were parked next to each other. Anecdotal I know but still... The McLaren was flaking, and body trim was loose also.

Orange peel is so common also.

A lot of early 2010s Nissans have a paint issue where the colour will fade or go sickly after 5-7 years, in other countries they have a paint peeling issue around the same generation(s) but I don't believe it is a problem in the UK though.

Not a major issue but if you compare photos or have an example which hasn't had that problem alongside one which has it can be very noticeable (or get touch up paint made by colour code, etc.).

 

[adam cool dude]

Cars last far longer these days. Some people are deluded. "In my day cars would all last 30 years".

Cars on the road by year:

Needs to be some context here. Consumerism has also dipped and we are fast becoming a second world country. Car sales are nowhere near the dizzy heights of pre 2008 by some magnitude. This will also result in cars being used longer rather than them being able to last longer. A lot of perfectly good cars were also chopped in the scrappage scheme putting people into new wheels to keep the auto industry going.

Use those figures to blanket prove that cars last longer isn't strictly true.

A Honda Civic Type R in 2001 cost 16k. Average wage was 21k. Honda Civic Type R in 2025 is 50k+. Average wage 37k.

People cannot afford to buy a new model every 3 years like in the 90's.

 

[JonRGV250]

To be fair to the French, the quality of their cars has always been consistent throughout the years.

 

[sigma]

A lot of early 2010s Nissans have a paint issue where the colour will fade or go sickly after 5-7 years, in other countries they have a paint peeling issue around the same generation(s) but I don't believe it is a problem in the UK though.

Not a major issue but if you compare photos or have an example which hasn't had that problem alongside one which has it can be very noticeable (or get touch up paint made by colour code, etc.).

Yeah Nissans aren't known for their paint (or general high quality, although they are reasonably reliable) however the memory stuck with me because you'd expect the McLaren to be better, especially given how much it cost and how much newer it was than the Nissan. I do appreciate they have apparently improved in recent years but it still makes me chuckle that they pushed out such poor quality in the first place.

 

[sigma]

To be fair to the French, the quality of their cars has always been consistent throughout the years.

Haven't they improved recently?

 

[Rroff]

Yeah Nissans aren't known for their paint (or general high quality, although they are reasonably reliable) however the memory stuck with me because you'd expect the McLaren to be better, especially given how much it cost and how much newer it was than the Nissan. I do appreciate they have apparently improved in recent years but it still makes me chuckle that they pushed out such poor quality in the first place.

Makes me laugh with high end cars sometimes - I'm a bit fuzzy on details but someone like Chris Harris broke a volume control knob while reviewing a very expensive car and if you bought the part from the brand it was over £500, but exact same part as Ford used that could be sourced from them for like a tenner.

EDIT: Though had a similar kind of thing with Nissan recently - needed a centre cap for a wheel - through dealer they wanted £60 each, direct from Nissan they wanted over £100 (not sure if that was each or a set), ended up sourcing the OE part at a quantity of 4 for £13 as apparently through the trade they can be purchased from Nissan for less than £10 for a set. Though since that they now list them on the Nissan website, fulfilled by Glyn Hopkins, at £13.68 each.

 

[Nasher]

I mean, neither of those cars are representative of the average car.

The average Toyota will have much better paint than an average Toyota 20 years ago. Paint technology is just better.

But the paint content is much more limited by regulations now than it used to be. It just cannot be made as tough or long lasting as it used to be.

Also some manufacturers just cut costs in that area. I've seen old and quite high mileage Kias with barely any stone chips, yet some new and very expensive cars are peppered with them after only a few years.

 

[JonRGV250]

Haven't they improved recently?

Not from what I see, they’re as god awful as they’ve always been.

 

[TechMinerUK]

But the paint content is much more limited by regulations now than it used to be. It just cannot be made as tough or long lasting as it used to be.

Also some manufacturers just cut costs in that area. I've seen old and quite high mileage Kias with barely any stone chips, yet some new and very expensive cars are peppered with them after only a few years.

This is my thought as well, I know that paint regulations are a lot of more stringent over the products used to make them (Most are water based now if I remember correctly) and whilst the paint uniformity and application may be better I would say the wear and tear is debateable.

That's not to say all old paints were great, as someone else put I also remember seeing lots of old Zafiras, Cors and Micras with faded red paint and stripped bonets where the clear coat has failed however I've also seen that on "Newer-older" cars as well and would certainly put the clear coat failure down to elements of poor maintenance etc.

The difference I've found is that if you are someone who looks after your cars and the paintwork/bodywork the newer ones seem to still be problematic whereas if you had an older car which may have had a worse paint application such as an MGF, MR2, MX5, Corsa etc providing you looked after them by washing them properly and storing them etc they seem to be more resilient against general day to day wear and tear.

I'm sure there are exceptions but newer paint seems more fragile against chips whilst it probably is more resistent to UV exposure etc

 

[Housey]

If you compare the 106 GTi i bought my ex wife back in the day from new to the 208 GT i bought my current partners lad this year new it’s no comparison. On any level bar driving, the 208 kills the 106. It’s a far far better car.

The old pocket rocket GTi still the most fun mind, but the quality of everything and the safety is vastly better on the new car.