Has Ocuk still got serious members - TOPIC = How Will Sony Do It
- Thread starter Mr Latte
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Wont do it all in quotes but to cover some of your points Frankjh ....
Yes i was relating to 2x 4x DVDs for a game.
One disc would be best but the point was to show that Blu Ray has no major advantage using one disc. People have been used to (more than one disc) games with just about every console.
Sony hype about how just by Blu Ray games can be beyond what they would be on DVD, offering vastly larger worlds etc, this is my point, its misleading.
I strongly disagree with anyone that says the next gen isn't about the games, the online features and exclusive titles or DL content.
People buying a PS3 solely for Blu Ray are not putting $ into games or making game developers happy. Sony are also in a position that their partners are trying to ship much more expensive standalone players and finding it difficult to sell them because of Sonys own PS3.
As such prices of standalone players will drop a lot probably to similar prices to HD-DVD players and well they will need to. Then you have to ask if an AV fans who are quality conscious will want a dedicated player or a PS3? Currently PS3 benifit is being able to handle the JAVA well but this will be sorted with standalones too.
We could argue all day about one box solutions, their importance and networking or multimedia, I still think people will buy a PS3 or X360 based on games not really make their decisive decision based on a single box solution or not.
For the record the wireless adapter for the X360 is not another box its an affordable addon for anyone already using a wireless hub on their PC.
Regarding your comparison to the X360 HD-DVD drive and using Blu Ray Movies over a network to be played back on a PC. Well i wont comment on that as i dont think its going to happen nor be a widely used or required feature. Besides how do you control it if the disc is say in the PS3 in another room?
FACT
Lack of quality games doesnt help the PS3 chances, X360 has some major hard hitting titles coming and the "wii" will have also. Sony seem to be the ones with less happening, is this a fair comment?
USA-UK dates its nothing to do with 60Hz its all to do with distribution, marketing and all the extra stuff required for a UK/Euro community. Language barriers are a problem in their own. Its here Microsoft have been fantastic, truly excelled with allot of titles only having about a weeks difference in release dates, to the USA launch with Sony this can be 6 months.
I ask is this going to change with PS3? If not then its another advantage to X360 isnt it?
You agree nothing too inspiring on the PS3 launch software. The thing is can Sony afford for their not to be anything to inspire when you consider Halo 3, Forza 2 and many other big games will be set to release in or around the PS launch. Some may be longer but it wouldnt take much to beat that PS3 line up...
Trust me i really wanted some KICKASS games that i wouldnt be able to get on the X360...
Yes i was relating to 2x 4x DVDs for a game.
One disc would be best but the point was to show that Blu Ray has no major advantage using one disc. People have been used to (more than one disc) games with just about every console.
Sony hype about how just by Blu Ray games can be beyond what they would be on DVD, offering vastly larger worlds etc, this is my point, its misleading.
I strongly disagree with anyone that says the next gen isn't about the games, the online features and exclusive titles or DL content.
People buying a PS3 solely for Blu Ray are not putting $ into games or making game developers happy. Sony are also in a position that their partners are trying to ship much more expensive standalone players and finding it difficult to sell them because of Sonys own PS3.
As such prices of standalone players will drop a lot probably to similar prices to HD-DVD players and well they will need to. Then you have to ask if an AV fans who are quality conscious will want a dedicated player or a PS3? Currently PS3 benifit is being able to handle the JAVA well but this will be sorted with standalones too.
We could argue all day about one box solutions, their importance and networking or multimedia, I still think people will buy a PS3 or X360 based on games not really make their decisive decision based on a single box solution or not.
For the record the wireless adapter for the X360 is not another box its an affordable addon for anyone already using a wireless hub on their PC.
Regarding your comparison to the X360 HD-DVD drive and using Blu Ray Movies over a network to be played back on a PC. Well i wont comment on that as i dont think its going to happen nor be a widely used or required feature. Besides how do you control it if the disc is say in the PS3 in another room?
FACT
Lack of quality games doesnt help the PS3 chances, X360 has some major hard hitting titles coming and the "wii" will have also. Sony seem to be the ones with less happening, is this a fair comment?
USA-UK dates its nothing to do with 60Hz its all to do with distribution, marketing and all the extra stuff required for a UK/Euro community. Language barriers are a problem in their own. Its here Microsoft have been fantastic, truly excelled with allot of titles only having about a weeks difference in release dates, to the USA launch with Sony this can be 6 months.
I ask is this going to change with PS3? If not then its another advantage to X360 isnt it?
You agree nothing too inspiring on the PS3 launch software. The thing is can Sony afford for their not to be anything to inspire when you consider Halo 3, Forza 2 and many other big games will be set to release in or around the PS launch. Some may be longer but it wouldnt take much to beat that PS3 line up...
Trust me i really wanted some KICKASS games that i wouldnt be able to get on the X360...
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BoomAM said:Not entirely true there. The 360 does have a better GPU, but the processors are a little more evenly matched than Sony/Toshiba would have people belive.
A good write up on it all is here: http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?cpage=1
I read that and it didn't really tell me anything different. Sony has a more powerful CPU (granted not as powerful as the hype) and MS has a better GPU.
Dont take it the wrong way, but prehaps that article, although not vastly complex in detail, is a little 'too' complex to get a simple answer out of reading it.Joebob said:
The way i understand it, is that although the PS3 has 7 SPEs, they are basically sub standard processors that arnt really as powerful as Sony markets them as. The Cell is powerful, but only at streaming in-order commands. Where as the 360 is better at 'general purpose' in-order commands.
Evenly matched basically.
, ones strength is anothers weakness.BoomAM said:Dont take it the wrong way, but prehaps that article, although not vastly complex in detail, is a little 'too' complex to get a simple answer out of reading it.
The way i understand it, is that although the PS3 has 7 SPEs, they are basically sub standard processors that arnt really as powerful as Sony markets them as. The Cell is powerful, but only at streaming in-order commands. Where as the 360 is better at 'general purpose' in-order commands.
Evenly matched basically.
Ok, I see what you're saying. But I suppose it's what you want out of a game then which determines which console to go for.
The 360 can produce better graphical textures and may be able to also have better AI if programmers utilise it and can tap into the GPU as well. The PS3 has a concurrency advantage which will enable dedicated SPE's for certain functions like crash detection, cloth physics etc. so there can be more going on at once. We will have to wait and see how developers take full advantage of each system. I think the 360 will lend it'self a lot better than the PS3 for FPS style games, wheras the PS3 will probably have the advantage on free roaming 3rd person titles like GTA.
Just thought I should mention that the article actually says both consoles have sub standard processors when compared to PC's.
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Joebob said:
Yes and the PC never gets close to using 100% of its power.
You still fail to see the problem, so far the PS3 isnt what Sony have told us.
Personally idont want to pay for another system thats AS GOOD AS and unfortunately it looks like the PS3 will need time to perhaps 2008 before the spectacular games on it appear.
At E3 in 2005 Mr J Allard stood on stage and said they know they got the best posible spec at the pricepoint for the X360. Particular attention was put into the design and the software tools with developers needs in mind.
Im replaying GOW in Hardcore at the moment and the graphics truly are astounding with the amount of detail in the textures, the massive buildings, lighting and then the small graphical effects like heat haze, smoke and lots of blood n guts really lets you see how far the X360 has come in a years development, cant wait for other highly anticipated games. This may be a problem in its own as will gamers expect new titles like the new GRAW to show similar improvements over their originals.
One other thing i find very dissapointing regards PS3 is that the online service does not support at this time voice chat. That is truly shocking as the interaction with teammates or indeed foes can not be part of the online game.
Is their any other downsides to the PS3 online service yet?
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Mr Latte said:
I thought all the manufacturers over hyped their own consoles, maybe Sony do it more than the others but they are all guilty of it.
Mr Latte said:
Everyone seems to be comparing 2nd gen 360 titles against PS3 launch titles.
As for the online service, I'm sure that there will be firmware updates in the future which will sort the problem out - didn't 360 have similar shortcomings which were fixed by firmware updates?
This article sums up my feelings: http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3155257
Soldato
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Joebob said:
as far as I can see, MS made some calims about the 360 performance, and thus far they have delivered. Sony in the past have always made wildly exagerated claims, I'm sure the PS4 will be able to fly to the moon or something.
In terms of online services the 360 has had very little patching. It certianly always has had voice chat in all games I have played.
Some games themselves needed patching for bad netcode or bad lobby systems, but that is the developers fault not the console or the console manufacturers fault.
In terms of game comparisons. We are generally comparing second gen 360 to first gen PS3 beacuse
a) It is the 360s second gen games that are the PS3 first gen games
b) Sony's console was supposed to be out about 6 months after the 360 so it should be starting on its second gen now.
c) Is it Microsofts fault that Sony are a year behind on their launch?
d) The games have been in development for similar time frames
e)if I was to go into the shop today and buy a 360 a wii or a PS3 I would be comparing it on what is available now, and what is in the pipeline, Currently the PS3 has nothing to offer now, and does not have much in the pipeline.
Joebob said:
To be fair Microsoft have not sold us on fantasy or fed the public lies after lies. Do you want to rewatch the Sony E3 2005 Renders again. Sony blantantly lied regarding the release of the console on several occassions even right upto September of this year were they announced Euro production had began and was going well. What about Gran Turismo HD, thats another major tall story.
I can see why some would hate Sony for their marketing ploys.
JoeBob said:
Why wouldnt people compare the 360 titles to the PS3, excuse me but thats whats available. Xbox had the exact same problem against the PS2. Titles like Fight Night and COD3 being actualy worse on the PS3 (slowdown) doesnt fair well either for the system and by the time they appear in the UK for PS3 launch the newest 07 batch will be making appearances at the next trade shows. This is part of the problem with the PS3 launch that a lot of the games will be 6 months old. This doesnt give the UK owner much incentive to buy a EA title come launch knowing that its probably not as good or certainly no better then the X360 version and by October/November the newest edition will be arriving.
Firmware problems is one thing but having online gameplay with no voice and no announcement of when its coming is a MAJOR concern. Dont get me wrong i think their is a lot of improvement possible over LIVE but gees no voice, ahhhh thats daft.
Remember "Next Gen Doesnt Start Until Sony Say So"
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Mr Latte said:
Maybe you should ask the question "what can Sony offer to intise me to buy a PS3" again upon launch in March or even Setpember, if rumours are correct, as then there will be a stack of titles and maybe even a few firmware updates as well as more film titles - you never know, if they release it in Sept then the cost may be dropped considerably.
The whole discussion is purely academic at the moment anyway as it isn't even released yet in the uk.
Joebob said:
Tell us why come March or Sept you think their is going to be a large price cut? How long was it before the PSP got a discount?
Please tell us what this "stack of titles" will be, September isnt a good time to launch so if its going to be delayed they would be better with a November release. At least then it would have the Christmas 07 line up from all the developers and new titles not a list full of stuff thats been available on Xbox 360 for months.
The discussion isnt about the price as such, yes thats a factor but its about the lack of reasons to make one worthwhile.
This thread may be coming to an end but we still havnt covered really good reasons to rush out and buy one and i find this doesnt reflect well on anyone considering a machine at approx £400+ with the problems discussed unless of course they just have to own one and perhaps indeed want to use it for Blu Ray purposes.
Losing GT HD and with their online using no voice at the moment means i for one wont be purchasing till games that show it off properly appear. Truly dissapointed.
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I said there may be a discount if it's launched in September. There were two price drops for the Playstation 2 within the first 10 months of launch.Mr Latte said:
Surly March isn't a good time for launch either. I count about 40 titles which will be out before Q3 2007 so I would consider that a stack. I didn't say it would have more games out than the 360 by then or that even any of them would be AAA titles, I just said there would be a stack of games available.Mr Latte said:
But as I said, it's all a bit of a theoretical argument as you can't rush out and buy one until at least March possibly even September.Mr Latte said:
I know I said in an earlier post that watching Blu-ray films doesn't bother me, but now that I have downloaded a few HD trailers I have changed my mind... imay have to buy a few old classics again when and if they are released on BD.
Yeah, it's a shame GT HD has been delayed - that's one title I was really looking forward to.Mr Latte said:
I can't really comment about voice chat as I hate it anyway and always turn it off when playing online PC games etc.
Just in relation to the few posts above.
A price drop doesn't seem to unrealistic tbh. If the launch is delayed till September in Europe, Sony will need to go a long way to win back some consumers. This coupled with the fact that there was a price drop in Japan, before launch and the fact that the EU market is not likely to see the 20GB model (according to many places), it seems likely a price drop will come.
As for games coming to the PS3 before september
Virtual Fighter 5
Motorstorm
Forumula One
Heavenly Sword
Metal Gear Solid 4
Warhawk
The Getaway (Possible)
Killzone 2 (Possible, but unlikely)
A decent version of Pro Evo 6 wouldn't be too unlikely also.
And thats not including any cross platform games.
As for GT-HD, everybody moaned when it was announced
'Its just GT4 made pretty, we want GT5'
'You gotta pay per track, thats duff, we want a full game'
So what are they doing? They are making GT5 and everybody is moaning.
Also GT-HD has not been canned totally, it is still going to be up as a demo, think it is within the next couple of weeks it is going to the PS Store.
September isn't a bad time for a launch, it is actually a very clever time for launch. You get the initial nutters who must have it out the way over the first 2 months of launch then bam its november and the christmas buyers are out, so you get a solid 4 - 5 months of sales.
November is a bad launch time look at the 360, and to some extent the Wii. you get early adopters and the must have chrimbo buyers all out at once so chronic shortages.
I don't know why people in Europe are getting so hung about about some of the lack of features. It's not even out here yet. Wait until it is released in Europe and see what features (if any) they have added. The list for the March firmware update reads like a list of things that should have been in from that start, and it seems like it will be for people in Europe.
A price drop doesn't seem to unrealistic tbh. If the launch is delayed till September in Europe, Sony will need to go a long way to win back some consumers. This coupled with the fact that there was a price drop in Japan, before launch and the fact that the EU market is not likely to see the 20GB model (according to many places), it seems likely a price drop will come.
As for games coming to the PS3 before september
Virtual Fighter 5
Motorstorm
Forumula One
Heavenly Sword
Metal Gear Solid 4
Warhawk
The Getaway (Possible)
Killzone 2 (Possible, but unlikely)
A decent version of Pro Evo 6 wouldn't be too unlikely also.
And thats not including any cross platform games.
As for GT-HD, everybody moaned when it was announced
'Its just GT4 made pretty, we want GT5'
'You gotta pay per track, thats duff, we want a full game'
So what are they doing? They are making GT5 and everybody is moaning.
Also GT-HD has not been canned totally, it is still going to be up as a demo, think it is within the next couple of weeks it is going to the PS Store.
September isn't a bad time for a launch, it is actually a very clever time for launch. You get the initial nutters who must have it out the way over the first 2 months of launch then bam its november and the christmas buyers are out, so you get a solid 4 - 5 months of sales.
November is a bad launch time look at the 360, and to some extent the Wii. you get early adopters and the must have chrimbo buyers all out at once so chronic shortages.
I don't know why people in Europe are getting so hung about about some of the lack of features. It's not even out here yet. Wait until it is released in Europe and see what features (if any) they have added. The list for the March firmware update reads like a list of things that should have been in from that start, and it seems like it will be for people in Europe.
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JUMPURS said:
As far as I'm aware we wont see PES on the PS3 until PES7 - I may be wrong, but I'm sure I read it somewhere.
JUMPURS said:
Damn right, I didn't really like GT4 the manage your driver mode made it too easy to progress.
JUMPURS said:
Lol, or the nutters who import like me and you
Ooooh, any more news on what this update will include?JUMPURS said:
Well i am sure there is a PES in the pipeline, just dont know what number it will be.
Yeah nutters import
Yeap, see this posted in a few places, someone on here posted it too
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8369336&postcount=38
Yeah nutters import
Yeap, see this posted in a few places, someone on here posted it too
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8369336&postcount=38
Both of you may feel to defend your import purchases but once the "Oh my gawd i got a PS3" wears off your in exactly the position i want to avoid and thats having a great system with very little on it in software terms to really make you smile. Its going to be a very frustrating wait for some of you guys although Motorstorm looks decent but with limited amounts of gameplay their isnt much bar the F1 title that would appeal to me (which probably still uses crap AI and if you go off track you can catch them up again within 10 secs)
So far it hasnt produced a X360 killer title or one that let people see that indeed the X360 cant compete. Its a shame GOW wasnt on PS3 first as everyone would have been saying damn look at this.....
Regards GT4 HD and "everybody is moaing"
This is the same tactic they used for the PSP. We are still waiting now for the GT PSP title but give them time only 2 years has past I would not want to even guess when GT5 will appear, but you guys keep your fingers crossed, the wait wont be long sure?
GT HD was announced around E3 in 2005 so theyve had all that time only to then announce within the past month the "now its cancelled and its just a going to be a demo"
Made even worse by not explaining why or showing images of a completely new engined GT5? So was everything scrapped that they had been working on since 2005 or when did the development team decide to switch to GT5. This is the same development team that cant do a PSP and PS3 version at the same time. Are you confident they will n ow meet the new date, im not...
Sorry if this seems unkind but wtf is going on Sony should have been throwing everything at this title appearing and kicking ass....
As for launching in November the X360 iirc sold out so it was hardly a bad launch. Honestly Mirosoft must be laughing their asses off if Sony face yet another delay. By this time they could have Halo3 Forza 2 and several other big name titles released and titles that will sell systems stealing sales from Sony.
I wonder how this fits into Sonys 6 million by March plans?
So far it hasnt produced a X360 killer title or one that let people see that indeed the X360 cant compete. Its a shame GOW wasnt on PS3 first as everyone would have been saying damn look at this.....
Regards GT4 HD and "everybody is moaing"
This is the same tactic they used for the PSP. We are still waiting now for the GT PSP title but give them time only 2 years has past I would not want to even guess when GT5 will appear, but you guys keep your fingers crossed, the wait wont be long sure?
GT HD was announced around E3 in 2005 so theyve had all that time only to then announce within the past month the "now its cancelled and its just a going to be a demo"
Made even worse by not explaining why or showing images of a completely new engined GT5? So was everything scrapped that they had been working on since 2005 or when did the development team decide to switch to GT5. This is the same development team that cant do a PSP and PS3 version at the same time. Are you confident they will n ow meet the new date, im not...
Sorry if this seems unkind but wtf is going on Sony should have been throwing everything at this title appearing and kicking ass....
As for launching in November the X360 iirc sold out so it was hardly a bad launch. Honestly Mirosoft must be laughing their asses off if Sony face yet another delay. By this time they could have Halo3 Forza 2 and several other big name titles released and titles that will sell systems stealing sales from Sony.
I wonder how this fits into Sonys 6 million by March plans?
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TIVO on a PS3
Sony who gives a f...
Why not try offering some games, this makes me mad trying to create more ways to somehow make it look like a value system.
Gamers must really be excited knowing TIVO is coming to make up for the lack of games, ohh hold on they might, its not even confimred (great press release..) kinda,maybe,were not sure yet but were announcing it anyways.
Good to see the system getting voice/video and multitasking, something it should have had from day 1 though.
Sony who gives a f...
Why not try offering some games, this makes me mad trying to create more ways to somehow make it look like a value system.
Gamers must really be excited knowing TIVO is coming to make up for the lack of games, ohh hold on they might, its not even confimred (great press release..) kinda,maybe,were not sure yet but were announcing it anyways.
Good to see the system getting voice/video and multitasking, something it should have had from day 1 though.
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Soldato
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JUMPURS said:Well i am sure there is a PES in the pipeline, just dont know what number it will be.
Yeah nutters import
Yeap, see this posted in a few places, someone on here posted it too
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8369336&postcount=38
No 20gb model in Europe, intriguing....
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