Haswell vs Skylake

inflames · 1 Dec 2016 at 12:24

Iv giving up on the idea of a AMD build, even with my brother in law offering me his OC FX8350 for £75.

Iv found an 2nd hand I5 4690 going fairly cheapish, same sort of price as an I3 6100. I wanted a I5 6500, but that seem to be just out of reach at the moment. what are the pros and cons to Skylake over Haskell. Both of these choices will have a sensible upgrade path as far as i can tell.

pastymuncher · 1 Dec 2016 at 13:12

What do you call fairly cheapish? With Haswell there is only really one cpu above the 4690 that is worth upgrading to and thats the i7 4790k so your upgrade path is limited. If you went with the i3 6100 then you have a much bigger upgrade path topping out at the current i5 6600k and i7 6700k. In January Intel launches it's new Kabylake cpu's which will be backwards compatible with the current 100 series Skylake boards giving you an even greater choice of cpu's to upgrade to.

Depending on what use the pc will have I would be leaning towards the i3 6100 just to get on a up to date platform with plenty of upgrade choice. Don't forget you will need DDR4 for this route (DDR3 for Haswell).

Another thing to consider is if you are bothered about overclocking. If you are then you want a unlocked k series cpu and a Z series motherboard (Z87/Z97 for Haswell, Z170 for Skylake). There is another way to overclock Skylakes locked cpu's but for me there are too many downsides to even consider it.

inflames · 1 Dec 2016 at 13:35

The rig is mostly for gaming. When i say cheapish its around £120 includeing postage. I think i would rather buy a brand new CPU, unless i know where its coming from. Plus i wasn't aware the Kabylake CPU will be backwards compatible with the current skylake CPU's, thats very good and swings my decision towards an I3. Cheers.

So i guess i should pair a I3 6100/6300 with H170 mother board, for now. Or with Z170 mother board and plan to by a K series CPU later in the year to Overclock. Or should i buy K series CPU and Z series board together later down the line?

pastymuncher · 1 Dec 2016 at 18:53

If you buy the i3 6100 go for a Z170 board to go with it. If you chose a lesser board and then buy a k series cpu as a upgrade down the line then you will only regret it. It's worth keeping in mind that when Kabylake launches in January you will be able to pick up a Z270 board as well.

los · 2 Dec 2016 at 12:57

Dont forget if you get a z170 board which has a non official overclocking bios for it, then you can overclock the 6100!
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18709076

jigger · 2 Dec 2016 at 16:52

Don't go with the i3. You would be better off with the FX8 core and spending the money saved on the graphics card.

If you shop around you can find some really good deal on the older i7's and Xeon E3 1200's.

Brazo · 3 Dec 2016 at 08:06

jigger said:
Don't go with the i3. You would be better off with the FX8 core and spending the money saved on the graphics card.

If you shop around you can find some really good deal on the older i7's and Xeon E3 1200's.

Going to have to disagree with you there. Whilst the 8 core AMD cpu can compete with a 2 core intel cpu in some circumstances it can't in many others and the i3 offers upgrade options whereas the fx cpu offers a dead end.

There can be no justification in recommending any of AMD's current cpu's as they are simply too far behind the curve.

Older i7's may be cheaper but you may struggle to pick up a motherboard.

Personally I'd go for a haswell i5 as it's possible to get a mobo, cpu and 16gb ram for £200 which will last you for a very long time.

inflames · 3 Dec 2016 at 13:10

jigger said:
Don't go with the i3. You would be better off with the FX8 core and spending the money saved on the graphics card.

If you shop around you can find some really good deal on the older i7's and Xeon E3 1200's.

You are the first person who has said use an AMD FX series as a good idea, apart from my friends who use them already.

jigger · 3 Dec 2016 at 13:33

Brazo said:
Going to have to disagree with you there. Whilst the 8 core AMD cpu can compete with a 2 core intel cpu in some circumstances it can't in many others and the i3 offers upgrade options whereas the fx cpu offers a dead end.

There can be no justification in recommending any of AMD's current cpu's as they are simply too far behind the curve.

Older i7's may be cheaper but you may struggle to pick up a motherboard.

Personally I'd go for a haswell i5 as it's possible to get a mobo, cpu and 16gb ram for £200 which will last you for a very long time.

You would have to be mental to buy an i3 over an FX 8 especially for £75. The ideal setup would be picking up one of the bargain i7's that are around, or hold off for Zen.

David Bisset · 3 Dec 2016 at 13:37

It's a good idea to use an FX in many scenarios (especially when comparing with dual-core offerings from Intel or for a variety of different workloads/price points). If you're looking at gaming specifically across a range of different titles and are able to reach i5 levels or above then I'd not advise it though.

As for upgradability - the standard set of actions is to overpay for future upgrade options that never get used, as next time round you'll not want to invest in a "dead end" thing so swap out to something new, overpaying for "upgradability" which you'll never use as next time...

(This isn't always true, some people actually do take advantage of the ability to change their CPU, especially in a place like this. Still worth considering how likely you are to actually change though. Only you know yourself!)

For me the 4690 or other second hand ~Haswellish gen i5/i7 wins hands down over the i3 or the 8350.

Brazo · 3 Dec 2016 at 21:52

jigger said:
You would have to be mental to buy an i3 over an FX 8 especially for £75. The ideal setup would be picking up one of the bargain i7's that are around, or hold off for Zen.

You'd have to be off your trolley to recommend anything from AMD at the moment when they are possibly on the edge of releasing something half decent.

jigger · 3 Dec 2016 at 22:31

Brazo said:
You'd have to be off your trolley to recommend anything from AMD at the moment when they are possibly on the edge of releasing something half decent.

It's £75. What are you going to get for £75 to beat that?

Martini1991 · 3 Dec 2016 at 22:40

There's plenty of secondhand i5's you can get for 75 quid.

inflames · 4 Dec 2016 at 15:16

Martini1991 said:
There's plenty of secondhand i5's you can get for 75 quid.

I current don’t have access to the members market at the moment on here, so i can’t comment for this forum. But the cheapest I5 i have seen recently has been around the £125.00 mark. I haven’t seen any going for £75.

jigger · 4 Dec 2016 at 15:19

inflames said:
I current don’t have access to the members market at the moment on here, so i can’t comment for this forum. But the cheapest I5 i have seen recently has been around the £125.00 mark. I haven’t seen any going for £75.

Well I'd take any i5 over any i3 even for £125. What CPU is it?

Brazo · 4 Dec 2016 at 15:37

inflames said:
I current don’t have access to the members market at the moment on here, so i can’t comment for this forum. But the cheapest I5 i have seen recently has been around the £125.00 mark. I haven’t seen any going for £75.

I've had an i5 4570 off an auction site for £95. Also kicking myself for turning down a 4670k for £100 on another forum.

Davedree · 4 Dec 2016 at 15:38

jigger said:
It's £75. What are you going to get for £75 to beat that?

I bought 2x 3570k's on here in last couple of months, for 60 and 65 quid.
Paired with a h61n usb3 itx for 40 quid it all fits in my small elite 110. Whilst it only runs all cores at 3.6ghz @ 55w undervolted(no clocking), it's feeding my gtx1060 all ok.
The money i saved went towards a gpu that actually gets utilised, an fm2/am3 setup would not at 1080p and would be more expensive. I've been offered my friends 3770k for 75.

Now try getting an fx8 to run in an itx case, nope smallest is an matx board and try getting it to clock in such a small case for use as htpc.
Looking around 4670/4690k go for a slight premium, and itx boards hold their money.
But Am3 or fm2 should not be invested into when 2nd hand intels are out there or am4 is on it's way.

inflames · 4 Dec 2016 at 15:44

David Bisset said:
It's a good idea to use an FX in many scenarios (especially when comparing with dual-core offerings from Intel or for a variety of different workloads/price points). If you're looking at gaming specifically across a range of different titles and are able to reach i5 levels or above then I'd not advise it though.

As for upgradability - the standard set of actions is to overpay for future upgrade options that never get used, as next time round you'll not want to invest in a "dead end" thing so swap out to something new, overpaying for "upgradability" which you'll never use as next time...

(This isn't always true, some people actually do take advantage of the ability to change their CPU, especially in a place like this. Still worth considering how likely you are to actually change though. Only you know yourself!)

For me the 4690 or other second hand ~Haswellish gen i5/i7 wins hands down over the i3 or the 8350.

To honest at the moment I am not sure, but i would like to think i would upgrade a CPU a year down the line, if i went for a I3. At least if i do that i could sell the I3 to off the cost of a I5 or I7 later down the line.
The only reason i was considering a ADM CPU was i had used them in the past and my friends use the. Saying that i haven’t built a pc in about 10 years now so have been out of the loop a lot, thanks to moving over to Mac and console gaming.
After joining this forum and doing some of my own research i came to the conclusion that i would go Intel, there CPU’s just seem to been that much more, guess this is due to them having a bit of a monopoly on CPU for the last few years.
Hence why i started to look at 2nd I5’s Haswell CPU's but they still seem to demand a seemly high value for a 2nd hand CPU. Iv also been looking at 2nd hand GPU’s. I am not trying to be tight, i just like value for my money.
My brother in law has giving me 1st refusal his, but he wants to test his 2nd hand purchase of a FX 9590 before hand. So i have a little time to make up mind. I would like to wait for Zen, but can’t see them being in ball pack financially at the moment.

inflames · 4 Dec 2016 at 15:46

jigger said:
Well I'd take any i5 over any i3 even for £125. What CPU is it?

It was a I5 4690, missed out on it i the last few seconds on well known auction site.

jigger · 4 Dec 2016 at 15:51

Davedree said:
I bought 2x 3570k's on here in last couple of months, for 60 and 65 quid.
Paired with a h61n usb3 itx for 40 quid it all fits in my small elite 110. Whilst it only runs all cores at 3.6ghz @ 55w undervolted(no clocking), it's feeding my gtx1060 all ok.
The money i saved went towards a gpu that actually gets utilised, an fm2/am3 setup would not at 1080p and would be more expensive. I've been offered my friends 3770k for 75.

Now try getting an fx8 to run in an itx case, nope smallest is an matx board and try getting it to clock in such a small case for use as htpc.
Looking around 4670/4690k go for a slight premium, and itx boards hold their money.
But Am3 or fm2 should not be invested into when 2nd hand intels are out there or am4 is on it's way.

Introduce the OP to your pal with the 3770K. Thats about a £100 less than they fetch on the popular action site and you can still get hold of new motherboards for socket 1155.