Have i been too harsh

[teulk]

well there you go thats all that matters end of the day. As long as that kind of family structure is happy with the result then there you go.

Another question would be how will you react if he doesnt ever come back ?

Well ive sent him a txt late last night when i got in from work that i would be calling him to day to discuss what has happened and if he wants to discuss it the he simply has to answer his phone. If he chooses not to come home then so be it he has then made that choice - the offer to come home will be there. I left home at 17 and joined the army so as for him leaving home at 17 the age issue is not a problem. What i would hope is if he decicdes he doesnt want to come home is that he is truely adult enough to do it and not because he is being stubborn, after all the whole point of this was to prove or not prove to him that he is or isnt an adult and that there is more to being and adult than just doing what you want when you want. Also no matter where you are rules and trivial chores may still have to be done.

 

[nst68]

....
What i would hope is if he decicdes he doesnt want to come home is that is truely adult enough to do it and not because he is being stubborn, after all the whole point of this was to prove or not prove to him that he or isnt an adult and that there is more to being and adult than just doing what you want when you want. Also no matter where you are rules and trivial chores may still have to be done.

I think this is the crux of the whole thing, he if he wants to be treated like an adult he should act like one.
He can't go on with the rest of his life swanning around doing what he wants when he wants.

Would he walk into a shop and deceide that he doesn't want to pay for a DVD?
No, (I'm sure we'd all like to) cos he realises that there are rules/laws to stop that.
The same applies to everything else in life, you might not like the rules but you need to follow them.

At the end of the day there's nothing to stop him moving out and finding somewhere else to live, but give him a month of trying to survive on his part-time wages and he'll realise how lucky he had it at home.

A parents responsibility isn't to give a kid everything they want, it's to raise the kid to develop into the best they can be, but you can only do so much, ultimately it's the child that deceides their path.

 

[JBuk]

it was completely unreasonable given the fact the kid was alreayd out. by saying what he did he was only ever going to get one response, that was the kid not being there by 9.30.
all teulk did was throw petrol onto the fire with that move.

I see it the other way round, its unreasonable of his kid not to come home at the time he was told to for just one night, instead he decided to show a more comtempt for his fathers wishes

when I was that age I was allowed out to anytime, if I was asked or told to be home by a certain time I would respect my parents enough to do as they asked

to me it sounds as though the lad is in between being a kid & a bit immature to becoming an adult with responsibilities
he wants the adult part but still acts like a child

 

[teulk]

I will just go back to the buying of the moped, He was told he had to pay for the insurance, now at the time we didnt realise he wouldnt be able (or at least we thought initially) to pay by monthy installments. When he looked into it he found that as he was 17 he couldnt pay by direct debit. I said to him, ok we've bought you the bike so it looks like you will have to just save hard for a few months and pay the full premium - this prompted a hissy fit of "well how can i do that, its a waste of time having a bike that i cant ride cos i cant insure it". Now heres a person that has a part time job, pays no board money and has no expenses..............so i have a go at him telling him how ungrateful can one person be, we buy the bike you pay the insurance - there comes a time when you have to take responsability for something and you can not have eveything handed to you on a plate, somethings you have to work for !

 

[Adsta]

I will just go back to the buying of the moped, He was told he had to pay for the insurance, now at the time we didnt realise he wouldnt be able (or at least we thought initially) to pay by monthy installments. When he looked into it he found that as he was 17 he couldnt pay by direct debit. I said to him, ok we've bought you the bike so it looks like you will have to just save hard for a few months and pay the full premium - this prompted a hissy fit of "well how can i do that, its a waste of time having a bike that i cant ride cos i cant insure it". Now heres a person that has a part time job, pays no board money and has no expenses..............so i have a go at him telling him how ungrateful can one person be, we buy the bike you pay the insurance - there comes a time when you have to take responsability for something and you can not have eveything handed to you on a plate, somethings you have to work for !

yea i agree with you there, that is well acting like a spoilt child imo.

Well I hope all works out ok for you regardless of the outcome.

 

[Phate]

I see it the other way round, its unreasonable of his kid not to come home at the time he was told to for just one night, instead he decided to show a more comtempt for his fathers wishes

Yes, but if your Dad has just had a go at you, and if normally your allowed out at any time and then suddenly he says "In at 9.30" purely to be the 'man of the house' and for no real other reason, then he is going to rebel?

 

[teulk]

One day i had to go and get him from park as his friend called to he was totally legless - the next day i tried to explain that he shouldnt have got that drunk (i have never stopped him from having a drink) but he couldnt see that it was wrong. Why ? because i did the same thing when i was his age and perhaps younger so that made it ok and therefor no big deal. Your right it wasnt a big deal that he got so drunk i had to go and get him (after all i did it and at some stage it was bound to happen) the big deal was his whole attitude towards it. That is the problem, his whole attidude towards things !

 

[JBuk]

Yes, but if your Dad has just had a go at you, and if normally your allowed out at any time and then suddenly he says "In at 9.30" purely to be the 'man of the house' and for no real other reason, then he is going to rebel?

If my dad had told me to be in early for any reason and if we were having issues about something I would have respected his wishes and went home at the stated time

I think to rebel over such trivial stuff is just showing the immaturity of the lad tbh

 

[D13]

Kids should be told to move out at 16 unless they are in full time education so you've done nothing wrong imo.

When my son get to 16 his rooms is being converted to house a model railway.

LMFAO, dude u are hilarious.

To the OP, it's tricky because your son is being disrespectful and is willfully disregarding what you say.
Like others have said, I think you need to have an honest chat, sounds like he is quite resentful but about what? Just talk to him, if he doesn't respond to that then what can you do but punish him.

 

[Banzai_Joe]

Glad you posted back teulk. To me anyway, that has just solidified even more that your son is acting like an insolent puppy. And maybe he doesn't deserve all that he if given even now.
For your part though be prepared to offer the pipe of peace if he does respond in some way to your texts/phone calls.
He has a lot of growing up still to do, and will make plenty more mistakes in the process.

I pray for a bolt of lightning to strike the next fool who chimes in without reading your OP or at least your past 4-5 posts. As they truly explain what the situation with your son is really like.

 

[Skidder]

You seem to say "had a go at him" quite a lot. At least I bet that's how it feels to him.

You will probably think this is a stupid idea but why don't you and your son (and may be your wife as well) make an appointment at Relate and speak to someone about the way you communicate with each other and how you interact. You may find that a few simple tools from an objective expert could allow you to transform how you relate to each other and allow you all to meet each other's expectations in terms of behaviour, commuication etc. It may also be a good way of getting through to your son what you expect in his behaviour and why it is important to you, while he may illuminate you as to how you may better understand him.

If you (like a lot of British people) would be uncomfortable with this, although there is no reason you shoud be, you could try reading a book like cognitive behaviour for dummies, this might again give you some tools for dealing with your son constructively rather than this cycle of tell him to do something / he fails to do it / you're angry and react....rinse and repeat.

Sorry if you think people who don't wholeheartedly agree with you are taking a pop at you or calling you a bad father, I don't think this is the case for the vast majority posting here. If a question has black and white answer it wouldn't be worth asking would it? Grey it is then - we're all from different walks of life and have different atitudes and what one person may find as shocking another thinks is soft, southern paffiness. I think someone earlier made an interesting point about how different social groups relate to their children and I think we're seeing this in the replies in this thread.

 

[Morba]

I see it the other way round, its unreasonable of his kid not to come home at the time he was told to for just one night, instead he decided to show a more comtempt for his fathers wishes

when I was that age I was allowed out to anytime, if I was asked or told to be home by a certain time I would respect my parents enough to do as they asked

to me it sounds as though the lad is in between being a kid & a bit immature to becoming an adult with responsibilities
he wants the adult part but still acts like a child

The kid was already out and already had a mouthful from his dad. He will rebel. Its to be expected. Only one thing was going to come from him being told to be in by 9.30... it happened.

 

[Morba]

I left home at 17 and joined the army so as for him leaving home at 17 the age issue is not a problem.

So because you chose to leave home and go straight into a job that would provide accomodation, food, drink and a wage, you think its the same as this situation with your son, where he is being forced out to a place with no set accomodation, food, drink or a full time wage.

open your eyes will you.

 

[Phate]

If my dad had told me to be in early for any reason and if we were having issues about something I would have respected his wishes and went home at the stated time

As would I, but we aren't all cherubs you know! It was only expected for him to rebel.

I think to rebel over such trivial stuff is just showing the immaturity of the lad tbh

He's 17, what do you expect?

 

[Morba]

I will just go back to the buying of the moped, He was told he had to pay for the insurance, now at the time we didnt realise he wouldnt be able (or at least we thought initially) to pay by monthy installments. When he looked into it he found that as he was 17 he couldnt pay by direct debit. I said to him, ok we've bought you the bike so it looks like you will have to just save hard for a few months and pay the full premium - this prompted a hissy fit of "well how can i do that, its a waste of time having a bike that i cant ride cos i cant insure it". Now heres a person that has a part time job, pays no board money and has no expenses..............so i have a go at him telling him how ungrateful can one person be, we buy the bike you pay the insurance - there comes a time when you have to take responsability for something and you can not have eveything handed to you on a plate, somethings you have to work for !

you should have checked if he could insure it from the moment he could get it, if not, encouraged him to start saving early enough to atleast contribute to the policy with some help from yourself.

kids this age generally do not think that much about the future, just that you said you would get a moped, to him that meant a moped that he could readily use.

 

[Morba]

If my dad had told me to be in early for any reason and if we were having issues about something I would have respected his wishes and went home at the stated time

I think to rebel over such trivial stuff is just showing the immaturity of the lad tbh

You clearly had a better relationship with your dad, this clearly is not the case here with the OP and his son, so just because you wouldnt have done it doesnt mean others wouldnt..

 

[Morba]

Glad you posted back teulk. To me anyway, that has just solidified even more that your son is acting like an insolent puppy. And maybe he doesn't deserve all that he if given even now.
For your part though be prepared to offer the pipe of peace if he does respond in some way to your texts/phone calls.
He has a lot of growing up still to do, and will make plenty more mistakes in the process.

I pray for a bolt of lightning to strike the next fool who chimes in without reading your OP or at least your past 4-5 posts. As they truly explain what the situation with your son is really like.

K.jacko - you seem to think that you are posting for trulk or something, how about you let him post a bit more instead of you posting constantly trying to back him up and work out things that you dont know about?

he might be acting like an insolent puppy, but thats due to his upbringing, part due to failings in parenting in his younger years and part because he is of that age.

 

[gt_junkie]

As would I, but we aren't all cherubs you know! It was only expected for him to rebel.

Surely you mean it was possible he might rebel? Hardly think something like that is 100% expected.

After all - like you say 'we aren't all cherubs' but nor are we all rebels.

Morba - your posts are depressing me man! Also, you talk about not posting when you don't know so why get on your high horse about it? Chillax.

Difficulty is that besides teulk and his own son nobody truly understands the situation. Think it should just be left there.

gt

 

[Banzai_Joe]

you should have checked if he could insure it from the moment he could get it, if not, encouraged him to start saving early enough to atleast contribute to the policy with some help from yourself.

kids this age generally do not think that much about the future, just that you said you would get a moped, to him that meant a moped that he could readily use.

Then this kid is CLEARLY far more immature than the level that he seems to resent being treated at!

If he were mentally retarded, i'm sure teulk would have mentioned as such by now. So we'll take it he isn't! Lets not get back to the "he's 17, what do you expect?" rubbish. A motor vehicle needs insuring, it also needs fuel, a 17 year should know this, but his son didn't seem to provision for either! He probably didn't say anything in the hope that his dad would also do that for him as well.

 

[Phate]

Surely you mean it was possible he might rebel? Hardly think something like that is 100% expected.

After all - like you say 'we aren't all cherubs' but nor are we all rebels.

gt

Well, going from the OP, and the way the lad is acting then I would have expected him to rebel...which he did. If he didn't then I would have been pleasantly surprised