HD-DVD vs Blu-ray - 3 films, 1 winner (so far..)

Radiation said:
I would hope for that much they're planning to make blu-ray a proper quality part of the ps3 and not a some cheap addon like dvd was in the ps2, i wouldn't want to get one then later find its not as good as a standalone player, will it likely the case?
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considering that's their main justification of the cost i'd imagine it will be a decent standalone player
 
Wotever the out come, im sure the logical solution at first is to bang one or the other in yer media pc, problem solved. Well for now any way.
 
If the cheapest Blu-Ray player atm is $1000, do you really think that the player in the PS3 will be any good? It will be reasonable i'm sure, but I think a $500 HD-DVD player will blow a $500 PS3 Blu-Ray player out of the water
 
FrankJH said:
Its exactly the same as comparing a conroe (brand new design of cpu) to A64 / X2 / Opty (about 5 years old design wise), in one sense its worth it but in another complete polar opposites

doesnt stop people trying though
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there is nothing wrong with comparing a Conroe to a K8 X2. They are both the fastest prcoessors available from their res[ective manufacturers. It matters not if one design is newer than the other design, only which is the best.
How is it polar opposites?
It's giving people that want a High Def player, a comparison between what they will get NOW if they go one way or the other.


On another note, wanting Blu-ray to succeed because it offers more storage is pointless imo. Wether it becomes mainstream or not, it will still be available for use on the PC because there is a market for such high capacities. Although why bother with 200gb (possibly, will probably be waiting a while) Blu-Ray when you will be getting 1.2TB holographic storage within 2 years.
 
Kamakazie! said:
there is nothing wrong with comparing a Conroe to a K8 X2. They are both the fastest prcoessors available from their res[ective manufacturers. It matters not if one design is newer than the other design, only which is the best.
How is it polar opposites?
It's giving people that want a High Def player, a comparison between what they will get NOW if they go one way or the other.


On another note, wanting Blu-ray to succeed because it offers more storage is pointless imo. Wether it becomes mainstream or not, it will still be available for use on the PC because there is a market for such high capacities. Although why bother with 200gb (possibly, will probably be waiting a while) Blu-Ray when you will be getting 1.2TB holographic storage within 2 years.
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Because we know that the hvd disks have about 0.0001% chance of being released in 2 years. 200GiB ones were supposed to be released earlier this year and currently holographical players cost $15,000 and $120 per disk.
 
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My gut reaction is that Blu-ray may be the format that fails.

If memory serves it costs significantly more to make the disks, not least because it requires all new machinery at the replication facilities (unlike HD-DVD where I beleive existing equipment can be converted).

HD-DVD also has the advantage that they can with relative ease put out duel format releases, a HD-DVD version of the film on one side, and a normal DVD version on the other without adding significantly to the cost of the disk.
The result is that if you release your films like that you build up the users library of HD films before they even have the player (unlikely to happen with newer films, but I suspect it may happen with older ones).
Which is a very handy marketting tool, not to mention will appeal to many retailers who don't have the room to stock significant quantities of 3 versions of the same film.
 
I wouldn't be suprised if you could do the same with blu-ray disks. Though I don't think many average people will buy dual format ones over the dvd release when the dvd version costs less.
 
I don't know if they could do it with Blu-ray, I think the manufacturing equipment is different enough it would make it harder, not to mention possible licencing problems with doing it (I've only heard it mentioned in relation to HD-DVD).

With regards to "normal" versions of the disks, it depends if they did a normal DVD version of the disk ;)
If (and i'll admit it's a big if), a HD-DVD doesn't cost much if any more than a normal DVD to make then the cost of a dual format version would probably end up at about the same as a current duel layer double sided DVD, which would be workable.

The idea is that the retailers, manufacturers and distributers would only be dealing with a single stock item when they might otherwise be dealing with two (DVD and HD-DVD), which simplifies things significantly for the companies involved and greatly reduces the problems of under or over stocking a title.

One of the biggest DVD production/distribution companies in the U.S. has already stated that most retail outlets (as opposed to online) have serious problems keeping the current range of titles in stock without either running out, or ending up with masses of excess stock that they cannot sell, this can only get worse if there are 2 or 3 versions of films.
 
In a year or two when HD-DVD and Blu ray will actually be widely available in choice of hardware and software, more and more people wont be interested in SD films anyway

THe way we are using capacity though in storage terms, not just as films but on pc's as well - blu-ray is well ahead and whatever happens blu ray players will be in a lot of homes world wide before Xmas and by then better priced recorders should be on the market from different manufacturers

To be honest I think there is a market for both and its technically possible to do combi players so everyone wins but thats farrrrrrrr too sensible lol
 
FrankJH said:
Its exactly the same as comparing a conroe (brand new design of cpu) to A64 / X2 / Opty (about 5 years old design wise), in one sense its worth it but in another complete polar opposites

doesnt stop people trying though
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Of course but the conroe is based on a design that goes back far longer than the K8 does.

It is a valid comparison as its what you can buy now, you can walk in to a shop and buy either a BD or HD-DVD player sit them down side by side and compare them.

BD not using vc1/h.264 yet is its own problem and when it finally does use it expect there to be very little between the systems. Extra space on BD is going to have no effect at all on the image quality as even the longest films ever made easily fit on a hd-dvd disc.
 
Shimmyhill said:
BD not using vc1/h.264 yet is its own problem and when it finally does use it expect there to be very little between the systems. Extra space on BD is going to have no effect at all on the image quality as even the longest films ever made easily fit on a hd-dvd disc.
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It allows for a higher bitrate. ;)
 
There is no limit on bitrate so of course they can.

At blu-ray 2x speed (72Mbps) video works out at 8.58MB/s which is almost 31GB an hour. That easily fills a disk.
 
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Energize said:
There is no limit on bitrate so of course they can.

At blu-ray 2x speed (72Mbps) video works out at 8.58MB/s which is almost 31GB an hour. That easily fills a disk.
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Of course, what i mean is the standards set for vc1 fit within a hd-dvd disk.

To get full lossless HD on vc1/h.264 you need a disk far bigger than BD so the point being bd over hd-dvd will offer no realworld IQ difference.

The space will be filled with tat - i mean extra content ;)
 
In my opinion HD-DVD is going to be the modern day Betamax. :( Shame cause I use to work for a Toshiba division for many years. Its doomed because all the major CE companies are backing Bluray. By the end of the year you will have Players from Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic etc. LG and Samsung have both shelved their plans for a Hybrid Player.

PC based Blue-Ray Drives are already out this guy has got one already: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=706739&page=1&pp=30

Apple is going to announce Blu-Ray Drives next week. Millions of PS3s starting from November. Disney will be releasing Titles soon as well.

Once DL Bluray Discs get released and they start using a better codec like VC1 or MP4 its going to get very tough for HD-DVD.
 
The irony of Betamax was that it was the superior format, on paper Blu Ray is the better format and right now is far more likely to fail.

Why will new Blu Ray disc make it tough for HD DVD? You're not going to get a noticably better picture just because it's got a bit more space. Even if it is a bit better it's still far more expensive.

Studio and manufacturer support is fickle, they'll go wherever there is money to be made.

I don't think PS3 will count as much as people reckon, the majority of people want to play games and are more than happy with the quality of divx/dvd.

Whilst BD is on a promise HD DVD is delivering right now by all accounts.
 
If anything Blu-Ray is the Betamax of the two, although it's not that clear cut this time. In technical terms the only thing Blu-Ray has over HD-DVD is capacity, but considering a dual layer HD-DVD is 30Gb (compared to 50Gb of Blu-Ray), I think very few films will need that much space, even at a higher bitrate. Only a 3hour+ film will fill a 30Gb HD-DVD, and that will include a hefty video and audio bitrate.

HD-DVD is the format that's cheaper to produce and will be easier for studios to start using. I think people need to look past the pure technical specs. As seen at the start of this thread, despite Blu-ray being technically better, we've seen HD-DVDs win out over Blu-Ray in real world terms. Although admittedly that's more the fault of the codec more than anything. But who says that all films will be in VC-1 in future? VC-1 is a Microsoft codec, and they're firmly in the HD-DVD camp, so i'm sure Sony would prefer to stick with MPEG2 for as long as possible!

I can't put my finger on it, but HD-DVD just seems like the well-rounded format at the moment. Blu-ray seems overpriced and difficult to implement. And going from the past the format that's easiest to mass-produce for market will probably win out.
 
Please guys remember that the best format doesn't win, just like VHS / Betamax.

My money is on HD-DVD as the discs and players are much cheaper to produce, however Bluray has a big advantage to start with the PS3.
 
Hamish said:
Please guys remember that the best format doesn't win, just like VHS / Betamax.

My money is on HD-DVD as the discs and players are much cheaper to produce, however Bluray has a big advantage to start with the PS3.
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but only if the DR player is any good. If their shoddy attempt with a DVD player in the PS2 is anything to go by, it won't be.
Unrecognised discs, poor quality, films stopping half way through, slow layer changes... etc. Even i managed to notice these things and i am certainly no AV junky.
 
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