HDMI 2.1 AV Receiver needed

[dink]

After purchasing a Sony Bravia KD43X89JU, and then realising when it arrived one of the two HDMI 2.1 ports is also shared with eARC (currently now using digital out to an old Yamaha RXV477) I now need to look for a 4K 120hz capable AV Receiver, happy to spend up to £500 and I've been looking at the Yamaha RXV4, just wondered if anyone had any opinions on this model, or could suggest alternatives please ?

Looking at purchasing late feb early March and connected will be a gaming PC, PS5 and Series X.

Thanks,

 

[lucid]

There's only really two choices in new; the Yamaha or the Denon.

Denon - more channels but Denons have a reputation for running hot enough to kill themselves without adequate ventilation. (look up Denon cooling fans USB)

Yamaha - have been far more reliable in the past. Not as powerful, but that's not an open and shut case. Sounds better for music.

 

[dink]

Thanks ill go with the Yamaha then, was looking at a Denon earlier although was a bit more expensive with less 2.1 HDMI ports. Just need to find one now as everywhere ive found its out of stock! Thanks.

 

[dink]

There's only really two choices in new; the Yamaha or the Denon.

Denon - more channels but Denons have a reputation for running hot enough to kill themselves without adequate ventilation. (look up Denon cooling fans USB)

Yamaha - have been far more reliable in the past. Not as powerful, but that's not an open and shut case. Sounds better for music.

Mind if I ask which one you'd go for please, the Yamaha is out of stock everywhere and Richersounds say there's a queue of about 50 people with no ETA, the Denon is in stock for order.

https://www.richersounds.com/denon-avr-s660h-black.html

https://www.richersounds.com/yamaha-rxv4a-black.html

 

[lucid]

It's not an easy question to answer because my priorities could be different to yours, and then there's the question of stock availability.

There are a lot of Denon fan boys, and I know that the appeal of the additional power - even if it's only a few Watts - gives a sense of superiority. Also, Denon has offered more in the way of features at various price points than its competitors in recent years and that's a big attraction too. The AVR-X1600H from 2019 was £350 and gave 7.2 channel surround with the ability to run 5.2.2 ATMOS. That was a lot of amp for the money, so you could see why Denon was popular.

One area where I think Denon does have an edge right now is with the S660 is in the room EQ. The Audyssey MultEQ in the S660 isn't as advanced as the MultEQ XT32 in the higher-end Denons, but it's still a step ahead of the single point YPAO in the Yamaha RXV4A. (The RXV6A has multipoint YPAO)

Room EQ aside, I'd still go with the Yamaha personally. I listen to music quite a bit through my surround system. Sometimes it's in multichannel stereo, but other times it's in 2.1 or even 2.0 Pure Direct as my front stereo speakers will decent bass. As mass market AV receivers go, Yamahas sound better IMO than Denons for music, and as a general rule if something is good for music then it digs out more detail and does subtlety better in movie surround mode too. If you're looking to be grabbed by the lapels and shaken during movies then the bombast of the Denon might suit you better.

You've got a little time before you need to order. We've just gone through Christmas and it can take a little while for the supply chains to get back up to speed. If you feel like it's getting a bit tight on time then go for the Denon, it's still a decent amp for the money.

 

[dink]

Thanks for the response, really appreciate the insight I’ll be mostly gaming and watching movies so if it gets close to March and cannot get the Yamaha I’ll just go with the Denon.

Thanks again.

 

[Schizophonic]

I'm in the same position as you but my requirements are 4k/120hz and 5.2 and the entry level Yamaha's do not do 5.2 for dolby atmos which is nice to have.

I think when funds allowed I'll end up getting the Denon AVR-S760H and it seems Richer sounds has some kind of exclusive stock. If you google it, you'll find details mainly from the state site.

 

[lucid]

I'm in the same position as you but my requirements are 4k/120hz and 5.2 and the entry level Yamaha's do not do 5.2 for dolby atmos which is nice to have.

I think when funds allowed I'll end up getting the Denon AVR-S760H and it seems Richer sounds has some kind of exclusive stock. If you google it, you'll find details mainly from the state site.

5.2 isn't Atmos. It's 5 main channels plus two subs. For Atmos it would be 5.2.2 You're right though, the Yamaha RXV4A doesn't do Atmos. Then again, neither does the price-comparable Denon S560. To get Atmos in the Denon range requires stepping up to S760 at £600 from Richers, or the £650 Yam RXV6A. It appears that te days of the sub £400 Atmos receiver are over for now.

 

[Schizophonic]

5.2 isn't Atmos. It's 5 main channels plus two subs. For Atmos it would be 5.2.2 You're right though, the Yamaha RXV4A doesn't do Atmos. Then again, neither does the price-comparable Denon S560. To get Atmos in the Denon range requires stepping up to S760 at £600 from Richers, or the £650 Yam RXV6A. It appears that te days of the sub £400 Atmos receiver are over for now.

My current amp is the Denon 1910 and its coming up to 10 years old for me so I've been researching whats out there but to get what I want, entry model is going to be £600 and even looking for 2nd hand market there isn't that tick those boxes.

 

[lucid]

My current amp is the Denon 1910 and its coming up to 10 years old for me so I've been researching whats out there but to get what I want, entry model is going to be £600 and even looking for 2nd hand market there isn't that tick those boxes.

Ten plus years ago things had been pretty stable for a long time. 1080p with 3D support was pretty-much the video standard. For sound, we had HD-audio in the forms of Dolby True-HD and DTS HD MA. HDMI control was pretty-much established but in 2009 when your 1910 was released HDMI ARC was a brand new feature and not yet on many TVs or AV receivers. A quick look at the back panels of your 1910 (£450 at launch) versus today's £450-£500 Denon shows you just how much video and audio has changed.

Of course the back panel doesn't tell the whole story. A lot of the major changes have been in standards and software. We have ARC and eARC, Audyssey room EQ, Internet and streaming, multiroom music, app control not to mention a whole host of audio and video standards changes that are still going on: UHD, HDR, WCG, 120Hz, VRR, Atmos etc.

Outside of the confines of the AV market there have been wider changes in consumer preferences that have made a big splash. Those ripples are now rocking the AV receiver boat.

Ten years ago the sound bar was mostly polarised as either a budget TV speaker or something expensive but ultimately very much more limited in features and performance compared to an AV receiver and speakers. That's changed in that sound bars have pretty much replaced a lot of the AV receiver market, hence why Pioneer and Onkyo joined forces but too late to save the businesses. Sony as retreated too with no replacement for the popular STR-DN1080. Denon's and Yamaha's ranges have both shrunk considerably in the budget sphere.

All in all then, yes, you're going to have to spend a chunk of cash. That's where the market is now.

 

[theone8181]

Ten plus years ago things had been pretty stable for a long time. 1080p with 3D support was pretty-much the video standard. For sound, we had HD-audio in the forms of Dolby True-HD and DTS HD MA. HDMI control was pretty-much established but in 2009 when your 1910 was released HDMI ARC was a brand new feature and not yet on many TVs or AV receivers. A quick look at the back panels of your 1910 (£450 at launch) versus today's £450-£500 Denon shows you just how much video and audio has changed.

Of course the back panel doesn't tell the whole story. A lot of the major changes have been in standards and software. We have ARC and eARC, Audyssey room EQ, Internet and streaming, multiroom music, app control not to mention a whole host of audio and video standards changes that are still going on: UHD, HDR, WCG, 120Hz, VRR, Atmos etc.

Outside of the confines of the AV market there have been wider changes in consumer preferences that have made a big splash. Those ripples are now rocking the AV receiver boat.

Ten years ago the sound bar was mostly polarised as either a budget TV speaker or something expensive but ultimately very much more limited in features and performance compared to an AV receiver and speakers. That's changed in that sound bars have pretty much replaced a lot of the AV receiver market, hence why Pioneer and Onkyo joined forces but too late to save the businesses. Sony as retreated too with no replacement for the popular STR-DN1080. Denon's and Yamaha's ranges have both shrunk considerably in the budget sphere.

All in all then, yes, you're going to have to spend a chunk of cash. That's where the market is now.

Surely the 1910 was reasonably high end for its time. I used to have a 1610 and the lack of HDR passthru and arc annoyed me so I upgraded.

 

[Schizophonic]

Ten plus years ...

All in all then, yes, you're going to have to spend a chunk of cash. That's where the market is now.

Ten years ago I was still proud of my 40" Panasonic Plasma rocking the 2 inch bezels. It wasn't till Jan 2021 I jumped onto the LG OLED BX tvs and what a difference it made haha.
Its just a shame how most of my content we consume is now streaming service and won't be broadcasting sound such as DTX and etc. I heard Disney IMAX versions of some movies have DTX sound format. Is that true?

Once I eventually get the S560H I will need to get some upward facing speakers to at least use the Dolby Atmos as well.

 

[lucid]

Surely the 1910 was reasonably high end for its time.

Not really, no. It was the start of the mid-range.

The 1910 launched in the £400-£500 price category, and that was an important position for AV receiver manufacturers. It marked the point where all the 'must have / nice to have' feature list got ticked.

Whatever it was for that season, whether it was 3D compatibility, or video cross-conversion, or a network connection or room EQ, this was the step-up point where you got everything.

Receivers above this price point added 'more' or 'better'. More channels, more power, better scaling, better stereo performance.

Denon model numbers have hopped about bit. At various points but not necessarily at the same time I think there have been 13xx, 15xx, 16xx and 17xx series below the 19xx range.

In 2009, the entry-level model was the 1610. Mid-range was covered by your 1910 and the step-up 2310 models. In the £1000+ range there were a couple of 33xx series and then the range topping 43××.

 

[lucid]

Once I eventually get the S560H I will need to get some upward facing speakers to at least use the Dolby Atmos as well.

If you're still thinking of either the £400 Denon or Yamaha then Atmos speakers of any type would be a waste of time. Neither does Atmos. There are no speaker sockets for the extra Atmos speaker on top of the 5 channels surround. You need to spend more and go a model up in both ranges to get Atmos.

 

[lucid]

Its just a shame how most of my content we consume is now streaming service and won't be broadcasting sound such as DTX and etc. I heard Disney IMAX versions of some movies have DTX sound format. Is that true?

Part of the IMAX Enhanced package does include an IMAX version of DTS:X audio, but it hasn't yet made it through to the Disney+ releases as of yet. I think it's down as a feature for the future, but when I have no idea.

I've just put on 'Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings' from my Disney+ subscription via a Fire Stick. There's a selection for the standard widescreen or IMAX Enhanced version. IMAX has an aspect ratio that almost fills the 16:9 (1.77:1) TV screen. It's a 1.90:1 aspect ratio. The sound though is listed as DD / Dolby Atmos.

I guess it's a case of watch this space.

 

[Schizophonic]

If you're still thinking of either the £400 Denon or Yamaha then Atmos speakers of any type would be a waste of time. Neither does Atmos. There are no speaker sockets for the extra Atmos speaker on top of the 5 channels surround. You need to spend more and go a model up in both ranges to get Atmos.

Sorry yes, I listed the wrong model number and its the S760H which has the options I need and its the cheaper one...

 

[dink]

Here’s a question if anyone can answer, I’ve ordered the Yamaha RXV4A from a shop who had one in and it’s arriving in the week, I’ve been reading up on board issues with hdmi 2.1 and have been assured it’s latest stock from Yamaha so should be unaffected.

I’ve also been reading complaints about the hdmi ports being lower speed 2.1 (23gbps or something) rather than higher speed (like 40gbps from what I remember), will this cause me issues running my series x / PS5 at 120hz 4K with HDR10? I run my PC at 1080p 120hz so that shouldn’t be an issue just concerned about the consoles, I’m not fussed about future proofing I just want the devices to work as well as they do directly connected to my TV.

My knowledge about av is limited so need to get as much facts as possible before it arrives and decide whether to open it or send it back. Thanks.

 

[Schizophonic]

Here’s a question if anyone can answer, I’ve ordered the Yamaha RXV4A from a shop who had one in and it’s arriving in the week, I’ve been reading up on board issues with hdmi 2.1 and have been assured it’s latest stock from Yamaha so should be unaffected.

I’ve also been reading complaints about the hdmi ports being lower speed 2.1 (23gbps or something) rather than higher speed (like 40gbps from what I remember), will this cause me issues running my series x / PS5 at 120hz 4K with HDR10? I run my PC at 1080p 120hz so that shouldn’t be an issue just concerned about the consoles, I’m not fussed about future proofing I just want the devices to work as well as they do directly connected to my TV.

My knowledge about av is limited so need to get as much facts as possible before it arrives and decide whether to open it or send it back. Thanks.

If the port is not HDMI 2.1 ready and the firmware has been applied and confirmed working by the shop I would cancel it. Reading on the AV forums (https://www.avforums.com/threads/yamaha-rx-v4a-v6a-owners-thread.2316719/page-120) some users have reported fail firmware upgrades and now Yamaha are doing board replacements, when will that happen no one knows. If you are looking to get a AV with HDMI 2.1 ready then it should be ready out of the box.
I had a similar conversation with a sales rep from PeterTyson and he sounded convincing but still be cautious. He told me with the Yamahas that was built and purchased after Q2 of 2021 have the 2.1 ready. The machine was released back in 2020 of Q1 from what I've read. Also when you say you've been reading the complaints about the HDMI ports, are those people using the right cables to allow the full bandwidth through?

 

[dink]

If the port is not HDMI 2.1 ready and the firmware has been applied and confirmed working by the shop I would cancel it. Reading on the AV forums (https://www.avforums.com/threads/yamaha-rx-v4a-v6a-owners-thread.2316719/page-120) some users have reported fail firmware upgrades and now Yamaha are doing board replacements, when will that happen no one knows. If you are looking to get a AV with HDMI 2.1 ready then it should be ready out of the box.
I had a similar conversation with a sales rep from PeterTyson and he sounded convincing but still be cautious. He told me with the Yamahas that was built and purchased after Q2 of 2021 have the 2.1 ready. The machine was released back in 2020 of Q1 from what I've read. Also when you say you've been reading the complaints about the HDMI ports, are those people using the right cables to allow the full bandwidth through?

Thanks for the response, yeah I was reading that thread the weekend and it was the reason I started getting concerned about my order. From what I found out they have been doing board replacements since Q4 last year, and new ones have a yellow round little sticker on the box next to the serial number. The one I received today had the yellow sticker so was pretty happy about that, updated firmware and it shows a * near the firmware version which is another indicator apparently that the board is a fixed one.

Set it all up and plugged in PC, Series X and PS5 and it all works great and all devices are working with 120hz, gave Doom Eternal a bash on the series x, looks and plays just as good as connected direct to TV have absolutely no idea what those complaining were on about, maybe its future proofing and will cause issues with 8k with slower ports, dunno.

 

[Schizophonic]

Good to hear, i was looking at the same model but I think with a bit more extra money I can end up getting one with Dolby Atmos. Enjoy your setup!