HDR Monitors

FrankJH said:
These dont have any baring on the refresh abilities of the panel itself:confused:


This is actually wrong, the recent LG 55B6 as tested by AVF recently is 38ms refresh rate , I dont believe a tv has EVER come out as fast as you are stating - most OLED's are in the same 30-40ms range if not more (HDR settings appear to have a adverse affect currently on refresh times)
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Actually those figures are input lag your quoting, measured with the leo bodnar device at 1080p. The response times are 0.1ms and offer the best and least blurry motion of any 60hz sample and hold display.
Refresh rates are for example 60hz, 120hz etc.
 
FrankJH said:
These dont have any baring on the refresh abilities of the panel itself:confused:


This is actually wrong, the recent LG 55B6 as tested by AVF recently is 38ms refresh rate , I dont believe a tv has EVER come out as fast as you are stating - most OLED's are in the same 30-40ms range if not more (HDR settings appear to have a adverse affect currently on refresh times)
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Most LCD and other tvs have a high input lag... simply because most companies see zero need to put any effort into making them low input lag. It's got nothing to do with the refresh rate.

You can get lets say 1ms response monitor, which has a 10ms input lag, and the same screen used with another controller has 1ms response and 40ms input lag.

TVs are just not great for input lag, or more specifically, their setups and settings are usually a maze of stupidity. Some tvs will have a gaming mode with better settings for input lag, why other modes have higher input lag... who knows. TVs are mostly used for watching, you know, tv, and with a predictable source of information and no need for input it's just not a priority.

Using OLED TV input lag to compare against monitors and claim the technology is bad is simply flawed as you can see the same increase in input lag between other types of tv panel.

OLED is monumentally ahead of LCD in terms of refresh rate, brightness and many other things. Input lag is almost entirely up to how quickly the controller processes incoming signals, it's controller/electronics/circuitry dependent, not particularly panel dependent. There is literally no reason to ever set up a tv to have higher input lag, there isn't a huge cost or anything else involved, it's just the usual lazy company/designer issue where even though it's stupid and does effect gamers.... they just don't care about optimising it on TVs.
 
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From starcraft 2 released in 2010, told you HDR isnt new guys.

OwUUj0e.jpg
 
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chrcoluk said:
From starcraft 2 released in 2010, told you HDR isnt new guys.
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'HDR' has existed in photography for many years as well. But there is a fundamental difference between HDR on a monitor and HDR as a rendering technique in a game. Nothing that is done on a software level (i.e. a game) can change the colour gamut or contrast performance of a monitor. Being able to simultaneously display very deep and dark shades and extremely bright shades, for example, can't be achieved by any neat trickery in software. It's physically impossible. What consumers are being offered here, other than an exciting buzzword, are products with capabilities far beyond that of current monitors. And far beyond what can be experienced from the HDR rendering technique.
 
It can have a massive effect as most games are designed for 6 bit colour panels, HDR on the PC typically expands the range used to 8bit which is quite noticeable.

The difference in this new variant of HDR is that it goes further to 10bit.

I have been using gedosato and sweetfx mods to improve games that have no native HDR support.
 
chrcoluk said:
It can have a massive effect as most games are designed for 6 bit colour panels, HDR on the PC typically expands the range used to 8bit which is quite noticeable.

The difference in this new variant of HDR is that it goes further to 10bit.

I have been using gedosato and sweetfx mods to improve games that have no native HDR support.
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Bit depth is a small part (one requirement) of what makes a screen 'HDR capable'. Bit depth has no bearing on either colour gamut or contrast ratio, which are very important and not something that can be simulated by software.
 
chrcoluk said:
It can have a massive effect as most games are designed for 6 bit colour panels, HDR on the PC typically expands the range used to 8bit which is quite noticeable.

The difference in this new variant of HDR is that it goes further to 10bit.

I have been using gedosato and sweetfx mods to improve games that have no native HDR support.
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You just cant physically turn a monitor with a 500:1 contrast ratio into one with 10,000:1 and equally you cant get it to display more colours either.
 
Daniel

Can you please make me:
38" curved + 3840x1600 + HDR + OLED + 240Hz + 178/178 + G-SYNC & FREESYNC options + Sub 1ms and other cool features.

Bring me this at sub £3000 please! :D
 
Gibbo said:
Daniel

Can you please make me:
38" curved + 3840x1600 + HDR + OLED + 240Hz + 178/178 + G-SYNC & FREESYNC options + Sub 1ms and other cool features.

Bring me this at sub £3000 please! :D
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If you had added, connecting on single DP port, I would have said, possibly when DP1.6 is out :D
 
Umm, HDR in a game doesn't mean anything unless it sends an HDR signal out to the display. Two totally different things.
 
PCM2 said:
Bit depth is a small part (one requirement) of what makes a screen 'HDR capable'. Bit depth has no bearing on either colour gamut or contrast ratio, which are very important and not something that can be simulated by software.
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Of course it does the higher the bit depth, the darker blacks and brighter whites are in the colour range.

e.g. in media player classic there is an option to adjust the RGB depth in content been played back and there is a dark scene in a prison cell I was watching and when I adjusted the setting wow at the difference, with it off the wall was all black, with it on you could see more detail and not all the wall was black but instead almost black if that makes sense.

The only hardware requirement is the ability to display the more extreme blacks and brighter whites, the rest is software algorithm. Of course the people wanting you to buy the products will make it sound otherwise.

The colour depth is a critical element, try doing HDR on a 6bit panel, you wont have much luck.
 
Greebo said:
You just cant physically turn a monitor with a 500:1 contrast ratio into one with 10,000:1 and equally you cant get it to display more colours either.
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you still misunderstanding.

Games are made to only output 6 bit colours.

Meaning a normal game is already not utilising the full colour depth of a screen.

Understand so far?

So all one is doing is unlocking the underutilised colours a screen is already capable off.
 
chrcoluk said:
Of course it does the higher the bit depth, the darker blacks and brighter whites are in the colour range.
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The depth of pure black and brightness of pure white is a hardware limitation dictated by contrast ratio. The depth of relatively deep and brightness of relatively bright shades is, likewise, limited by this. The level of colour saturation that can be achieved is a hardware limitation dictated by colour gamut. They both set boundaries which are absolutely critical for the experience - they either make the 'Range' 'High' and 'Dynamic', or not! Bit-depth is important as it dictates the precision at which shades can be displayed and that's why it's part of the bigger 'HDR picture', but it most certainly doesn't nullify the importance of contrast ratio and colour gamut nor does it influence either of those things. It merely complements them.
 
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chrcoluk said:
you still misunderstanding.

Games are made to only output 6 bit colours.

Meaning a normal game is already not utilising the full colour depth of a screen.

Understand so far?

So all one is doing is unlocking the underutilised colours a screen is already capable off.
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Since when? Was pretty sure 99% of games have been outputting 8 bit for years and a lot even calculate in 10 bit and "downsize" to 8 bit output anyway.

Some games like ALien Isolation even let you output in 10 bit of your have a compatible 10 bit gfx card and monitor which dramatically reduced banding in the game.

8 bit


10 bit
 
Daniel - LG said:
I think that the main issue is that the pricing WILL be lower when we come to bring them to market - when you can buy a 55" ish OLED tv cheaper than an 30" OLED monitor it makes no sense

Also - I believe (read) there was an issue with screen burn on the aforementioned one that we obviously want to iron out before mass producing any sort of range
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yep it makes no sense but gamers have deep pockets, and the current monitors we have are just not good enough! badly made with pointy bits stuck on them to tell us they for gamers >.<

for this reason i prefer tv's but you need to get the input lag down more, the new lg's are getting better at it but when paying 2k+ just ok isnt really good enough, and if a cheap sony tv from 4years ago can get input under 10ms so can you guys!

i dont care if its big i can just sit further away, give me an E6 i can play overwatch and rocket league on! :p
 
If it wasn't for Gsync I would seriously be looking at the new wave of TVs coming out for my PC gaming experience. But, I regard Gsync as right up there essential now, so I'm more than happy with my x34 (21:9 aspect ratio is a must also for me now when sitting close like for PC gaming).

Really liking the sound of HDR though I must admit. Unfortunately, like Gsync it's one of those things you have to see and experience yourself I suspect, but I reckon it's the next big thing, for me anyway in screen tech for gaming, films etc.
 
Mr Fujisawa said:
OLED and HDR please! Not upgrading my monitor until I can have these
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Yeah, same here. Happy to stick with what I got for another year or two if that is what it takes. But my guess is we will be getting something in 2017.

Would love a 30-32" OLED 4K HDR Monitor. Does not even have to be more than 60Hz, but ideally 100Hz or more would be nice :)
 
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