He must have like my car

Kol · 30 Mar 2006 at 18:26

Replicant said:
huh

edit, oh you mean like kids getting knocked down, is it mainly kids that die though, plenty of adults too.

How did you not get that joke? :confused:

OT, why is that those that always have the attitude problem are the ones that choose not to fill out their profile bio? Afraid that people will realise something? /cyclopopcicle...

Replicant · 30 Mar 2006 at 18:30

Mikol said:
OT, why is that those that always have the attitude problem are the ones that choose not to fill out their profile bio? Afraid that people will realise something? /cyclopopcicle...

most people are too lazy, dont read into it too much.

Kol · 30 Mar 2006 at 18:46

Replicant said:
most people are too lazy, dont read into it too much.

Aye, I think I am

kefkef · 30 Mar 2006 at 19:12

Very lucky mate, i got 3 points and £60 for 36 in a 30, about 200 metres from a national speed limit dual carriageway!

cyclopopcicle · 31 Mar 2006 at 00:28

Mikol said:
How did you not get that joke?

OT, why is that those that always have the attitude problem are the ones that choose not to fill out their profile bio? Afraid that people will realise something? /cyclopopcicle...

not to sure what you are getting at here?
attitude i think not, just casue i think speeding is bad because its againts the law, whether the conditions allow or not it doesnt make it right does it?
ok some people CAN handle the speed but what about those that cant BUT DO?
there has to be a medium and that medium is what the law sets wether we like it or not.

btw why do i need to fill in my bio to not have an attitude? are you saying that people that fill it in dont have an attitude?

[TW]Fox · 31 Mar 2006 at 00:37

cyclopopcicle said:
not to sure what you are getting at here?
attitude i think not, just casue i think speeding is bad because its againts the law, whether the conditions allow or not it doesnt make it right does it?
ok some people CAN handle the speed but what about those that cant BUT DO?
there has to be a medium and that medium is what the law sets wether we like it or not

You don't really appear to understand the many issues surrounding speed limits and their enforcement in the UK. I'd like to suggest this is becuase you don't drive - it's certainly the black and white opinion I held before I got a license.

Many speed limits in this country are ridiculously low and incredibly frustrating for all those who drive on the roads they are posted on. Many speed limits in this country are really rather high and legally permit speeds far in excess of what is safe and reasonable.

The authorities appear not to be bothered about this - instead, they focus their efforts on fining and banning drivers who are found over the limit the former type of road, rather than the latter. Motorists are an easy target - most of us are otherwise law abiding, and will pay up easily. Somewhat unlike real criminals.

There is little, if any, risk of driving a modern car along the M5 at 2am in the morning at 85mph. Yet it is illegal. If you get caught doing it 4 times in the space of 3 years, you will be banned from driving.

There is a huge degree of risk involved in taking sharp bends on country lanes, in foggy conditions, at 55mph. Yet it is completely legal. You will not be fined, or banned.

Does this make sense? Of course it doesn't.

Speed enforcement is a very easy source of money and it's also far too 'easy' a way of tackling road safety issues. It glosses over the real issues on Britains roads - if, for example, there is a road with a very dangerous junction with poor visability, which action will be taken? Re-model the road to make it safe, or simply reduce the speed limit to a ridiculous level and then make a fortune from cameras on the road? The latter.

Now, I fully accept that the fact that if you get caught speeding, the law is the law and you should take your punishment but that doesn't mean I have to agree it is fair and just. Just becuase something is 'THE LAW' does not mean we should follow it without question. Every day speed limits are changed - lowered usually - and cameras installed to enforce them.

You seem to genuinelly believe that we should just bend over and adhere to this sloppy method of policing, simply becuase 'IT IS THE LAW'.

I ask you this question. Imagine that, as a result of crime in your area, the government introduced a new law which stated you are not allowed outside your house after 8pm at night. This would be law. You would be fined £60 if you broke it. Would you simply accept this without complaint, as you expect us motorists to do?

Or would you kick off and whinge?

You'd kick off and whinge. I rest my case.

PardonTheWait · 31 Mar 2006 at 00:46

So is this just another feeble excuse to tell us all you drive an m3?

WE KNOW

agw_01 · 31 Mar 2006 at 00:49

Fox, that was a superb post. Great stuff

Now if only the government could see things that way

Jet · 31 Mar 2006 at 01:15

I agree in theory Fox, but if a traffic cop does see you driving 55mph in fog on a country road you will be stopped and if appropriate fined. I know, I've seen it happen.

And driving at 85mph will be overlooked by traffic police if the conditions are suitable. Speed cameras on motorways are in the minority and will have reasons to be there (the reasons are debatable).

Also I don't think re-modelling a road is as easy as it sounds lol, most roads are sort of trapped by buildings and other obstacles.

I don't agree with the poster your responding to at all, but i also don't agree with the other side of the coin, i'm sort of in the middle.

And has anyone actually notified the council of an inappropriate speed limit? I bet most haven't. Around our way there was a traffic calming measure which gave one direction priority and the opposite had to give way. This caused problems because of its location and people (including my dad) complained. Within the next few weeks it had been replaced by speed humps.

If the council aren't aware of the problems they can hardly fix them. Contrary to popular belief I think the transport system is taken seriously by councils. Traffic signs are replaced within days if they are damaged/vandalised or missing in Newcastle and there aren't actually that many speed cameras. Also if asked, I think I would struggle to name more than 3 roads on which i think the speed limit is too low.

Not all aimed at you btw Fox, more a general post.

[TW]Fox · 31 Mar 2006 at 01:26

Jet said:
I agree in theory Fox, but if a traffic cop does see you driving 55mph in fog on a country road you will be stopped and if appropriate fined. I know, I've seen it happen.

Which is great. It needs to happen more.

But it's happening less. Why? Becuase as camera and stupid scamera van numbers rise, traffic police numbers fall. Traffic police are being replaced with cameras. Dumb, stupid cameras which can tell only one thing - if somebody is over the limit. Thats it.

And driving at 85mph will be overlooked by traffic police if the conditions are suitable. Speed cameras on motorways are in the minority and will have reasons to be there (the reasons are debatable).

There are still mobile speed camera vans which WILL nick you for 85 on a Motorway/proper dual carriageway. Trust me, I know.

Also I don't think re-modelling a road is as easy as it sounds lol, most roads are sort of trapped by buildings and other obstacles.

It's not easy, no. But it's the best way. But nah, whack a camera up.

Also if asked, I think I would struggle to name more than 3 roads on which i think the speed limit is too low.

You can't leave your home town that often then. I can think of five immediatly off the top of my head...

A38 between Saltash and Treruelfoot Roundabout. 10 miles of 'Gateway Zone'. Just a regular NSL road with frequent dual sections - until they made the entire thing a 50 limit.

A35 near Wimborne - for no apparent reason whatsoever the NSL A road drops to a 40 limit for 5 miles. Then just befoire you get to a sharp bend, it becomes NSL again. Go figure. Particularly amusing here is the odd junction off this large, reasonably wide, previously NSL A road onto small lanes barely large enough for one car, all sporting nice destriction signs. Go figure.

Embankment Road in Plymouth. This is a dual carriageway. At one point it's got sliproads and is actually 3 lanes on each side of the road. It's a 40 limit - and despite it being just 3 miles long it has no less than 4 GATSO's and 1 mobile speed camera van location. This is a PRIME example of using speed limits to solve a problem for which they are not suitable. There is often the odd high speed accident on this road at night - Kevin's fly down it at over a ton, run out of talent, and destroy their car.

How exactly did a 40 limit stop this, given that all then people who crashed before were speeding? Well it didn't, duh...

Country NSL road between Plympton and Plymstock. No houses on it whatsoever. Just a regular road, in the middle of nowhere. Now 40mph along its entirity, with a GATSO. Why? No apparent reason.

And my absolute favourite...

Road out the back of Plympton. Half a mile long. Properly surfaced. Arrow straight, dead smooth. No houses off it whatsoever. Infact, nothing. It's a dead straight long road with a field beside it. It is a 30 limit. At the end of the road, the road surface changes and becomes rutted, the road narrows considerably, and... the speed limit increases to 60mph. Utter madness. You could, at one point, be driving down a narrow bumpy road at 60mph perfectly legally. Seconds later, on a far safer, smoother road with less hazards, you'd be doubling the speed limit and facing a ban. Great..

el_dazza · 31 Mar 2006 at 01:48

JRS said:
Speeding doesn't kill. Crap driving, part failure, and inappropriate speed for the conditions can kill. And inappropriate speed can be 15mph if conditions dicate it.

Bang on. No need to add any more, these few words are enough

Jet · 31 Mar 2006 at 02:14

I definitely agree that there needs to be more traffic police and cameras should never replace these. That's why i'm sort of in the middle.

Your right I don't leave my town often but Newcastle is a big place and has a lot of different roads. It's just that all our dual-carriageways and motorways are national speed limit, single carriageway 60 and residential 30 by and large. I honestly can't think of many, I think are wrong.

And i still don't think speed cameras are a problem, the government's attitude is for sure, but speed cameras per se? No.

I actually did a 600 mile round trip from Newcastle to Bristol for a gig last Saturday and passed only 1 speed camera (although one was being erected), and I averaged 85mph and passed 2 traffic police. I just don't think it's that much of a problem tbh.

Newcastle council just must be better than others i guess. Actually, in Jesmond (for people that know it), there is an insane amount of traffic passing from the Coast Road to the Central Motorway through Jesmond and in the middle of a very busy junction were 2 roundabouts. I wasn't a driver then, but I saw a lot of accidents, mainly minor bumps and scrapes but it was clearly a problem. A couple of years ago the council spent months and an awful lot of money developing it, and now it is 2 traffic light junctions and the traffic flow is a lot better. The council received no benefit at all from this.

It's easy to say that if there's a problem the government/council throw a speed camera up but I don't think that is the case, at all. I think they spend a lot of time, money and effort on the road system. In Newcastle at least.

I pass about 6 speed cameras every day, which unfortunately seems to be every speed camera in my area and I can justify each and every one in my head.

First one I encounter is on the coast road towards Newcastle and is about a half a mile after the speed limit changes from 70 to 50 on a dual carriageway. About a half a mile after the speed camera is a very busy junction near Jesmond and traffic can be backed up. Also because the roads over the coast road are bridges, the road dips before this junction. If drivers were travelling at 70mph to a static red light and heavy traffic there would be a lot of very bad accidents. I know of one guy who flipped a brand new mini on a test drive because he hit the traffic lights too fast.

After the traffic lights I just mentioned the speed limit changes to 40mph because the next stretch is a bend down a hill on a bridge over Jesmond Dene, not suitable for 70mph or even 60mph because at the bottom is another set of traffic lights in Jesmond with a lot of traffic.

Another speed camera is located at the end of a 50mph stretch and start of a 30, the 50mph stretch is alongside huge fields (the town moor) and the 30mph is Gosforth town centre. Without a speed camera some drivers will continue at high speed through a busy shopping area.

And i'm not going to bore you with the other reasons

If there are roads where you honestly think there is no point in a speed camera or it makes matters worse then fair enough but in Newcastle there aren't. If anyone can suggest any other ways of solving the problems above without a speed camera then go for it.

JRS · 31 Mar 2006 at 02:28

el_dazza said:
Bang on. No need to add any more, these few words are enough

Cheers.

Further to that point - the only time I've ever been hurt by a car (aside from the battering my knuckles take every time I venture near the Olds' engine bay) was when I was hit by a car mounting the curb. Said car was doing less than the 30mph limit, but was doing it with glorious ineptitude. Yet according to the "Speeding is Evil!" brigade the people out that day doing 85mph on a dry clear motorway are the dangerous people....hence why I tend to get a little angry when someone decides to take me to task for driving quickly.

cyclopopcicle · 31 Mar 2006 at 07:38

i do drive, infact i learn people to drive to the law (instructor) so in answer to your assumption i do know the many issues surrounding speed limits and their enforcement in the UK. i didnt say i agreed with them but i do stick to them

Malachy · 31 Mar 2006 at 08:16

DreXeL said:
Congratulations, you are this months OcUK Motors 'OMG SPEEDING !!!!111ONE!' merchant.

do you think we should get some bumper stickers made for this group ?
"IF YOU SPEED BABY JESUS CRYS, www.ocuk.co.uk"

o and
"Buy a mondeo !!!!111"

Malachy · 31 Mar 2006 at 08:21

just getting out my big wooden spoon, i agree with the bad drivers + conditions kill not speed.
but a bad driver sat behind a the wheel of a stationary parked car kills no one, however a bad drivering + speed kills
so that does point to speed kills

when was the last time a stationary car killed someone?
this is how it seems this topic looked at by the masses, not using their brain and realising its more the incorrect speed for conditions that kills.

Skywalker · 31 Mar 2006 at 09:35

I know one of the coppers your on about , he has a right attitude . The other day alone Manorhall road he stopped his 54 plate merc (same car) in the middle of the road to stop all the traffic so the kids could get out of school safely.

richieboy · 31 Mar 2006 at 12:43

Steve said:
snip

Where abouts was this, Steve? Am from Lewes and goto Brighton regularly so would appreciate the heads up.

rcrossco_1 · 31 Mar 2006 at 14:08

cyclopopcicle said:
or ------- you could just NOT speed

Lets not be silly!

rcrossco_1 · 31 Mar 2006 at 14:15

Jet said:
I definitely agree that there needs to be more traffic police and cameras should never replace these. That's why i'm sort of in the middle.

Your right I don't leave my town often but Newcastle is a big place and has a lot of different roads. It's just that all our dual-carriageways and motorways are national speed limit, single carriageway 60 and residential 30 by and large. I honestly can't think of many, I think are wrong.

And i still don't think speed cameras are a problem, the government's attitude is for sure, but speed cameras per se? No.

I actually did a 600 mile round trip from Newcastle to Bristol for a gig last Saturday and passed only 1 speed camera (although one was being erected), and I averaged 85mph and passed 2 traffic police. I just don't think it's that much of a problem tbh.

Newcastle council just must be better than others i guess. Actually, in Jesmond (for people that know it), there is an insane amount of traffic passing from the Coast Road to the Central Motorway through Jesmond and in the middle of a very busy junction were 2 roundabouts. I wasn't a driver then, but I saw a lot of accidents, mainly minor bumps and scrapes but it was clearly a problem. A couple of years ago the council spent months and an awful lot of money developing it, and now it is 2 traffic light junctions and the traffic flow is a lot better. The council received no benefit at all from this.

It's easy to say that if there's a problem the government/council throw a speed camera up but I don't think that is the case, at all. I think they spend a lot of time, money and effort on the road system. In Newcastle at least.

I pass about 6 speed cameras every day, which unfortunately seems to be every speed camera in my area and I can justify each and every one in my head.

First one I encounter is on the coast road towards Newcastle and is about a half a mile after the speed limit changes from 70 to 50 on a dual carriageway. About a half a mile after the speed camera is a very busy junction near Jesmond and traffic can be backed up. Also because the roads over the coast road are bridges, the road dips before this junction. If drivers were travelling at 70mph to a static red light and heavy traffic there would be a lot of very bad accidents. I know of one guy who flipped a brand new mini on a test drive because he hit the traffic lights too fast.

After the traffic lights I just mentioned the speed limit changes to 40mph because the next stretch is a bend down a hill on a bridge over Jesmond Dene, not suitable for 70mph or even 60mph because at the bottom is another set of traffic lights in Jesmond with a lot of traffic.

Another speed camera is located at the end of a 50mph stretch and start of a 30, the 50mph stretch is alongside huge fields (the town moor) and the 30mph is Gosforth town centre. Without a speed camera some drivers will continue at high speed through a busy shopping area.

And i'm not going to bore you with the other reasons

If there are roads where you honestly think there is no point in a speed camera or it makes matters worse then fair enough but in Newcastle there aren't. If anyone can suggest any other ways of solving the problems above without a speed camera then go for it.

Different councils, different problems, different communities.

Everyones tales are going to be different.

For the most part though, councils and roads are usless. There are probably a variety of reasons for this, sad but true.