Headphones for gaming advice - positional sound

[TerminatorUK]

Hi folks,

Looking for some advice for a headset / headphones to mod that fulfil the following criteria:

- Mainly aimed at gaming with occasional music and movie watching
- Excellent positional sound (this aspect is key for me)
- 3.5mm jack connection - I want to use my existing Auzentech X-Fi Hometheather HD 7.1 PCI-E soundcard that I still love. It has a dedicated headphone jack which an drive up to 600 ohm cans. I also love how creative's Crystalizer sounds too.
- Closed Accostic design (I like how Open sounds but I go to LAN parties and like noise cancellation so I can concentrate in all conditions)
- GOOD mic quality. Integrated mic useful but not required as I already have an Antlion ModMic 4 that I can use with any headphones
- Portability/ case is useful
- Budget = flexible but circa £100-£200

To give some history, I'm at a bit of a crossroads.

For about 10 years, I have diehard 'real' surround-sound fan and have gone though Speedlink Medusa 5.1, Roccat Kave 5.1 (and XTD) and Razer Tiamat 7.1 headsets in the search of surround sound perfection (go easy on me!).

They do have their place and I love the clarity and precision they provide, however, there is always a trade off in overall audio quality.

I've always hated virtual surround sound solutions such as CMSS-3D, Corsair Void's and Astro A40's Dolby Surround, Hyper X Cloud 2's virtual 7.1 etc... however, that changed very recently when I tried Razer Surround which I am finding to be both clear and positionally correct.

As I test, I got a 3.5mm extension cable, de-coupled the usb sound card from a pair of Hyper X Cloud 2's, plugged then directly into my sound card and was opened up to a new world of possibility.

The Hyper X Cloud 2 sounds pretty good but now it has opened a world of curiosity - now no-longer chained by having to have 'real surround sound - what headset/phones can give me the experience I'm looking for?

Specifically, plugged into the sound card, the Hyper X Cloud 2 has plenty of bass but if I'm understanding right, especially when the action gets hectic, the sound can become a bit 'muddy' and lacks precision in the bass department (strong but 'unclear' if that makes sense) - sometimes footsteps are lost in the heat of battle.

I'm not sure if this us Razer Surround or the limitations of the headphones but I feel there is room for improvement.

I think I like the look of the Sennhesier Game Zero headset but I've recently been seeing a lot of praise for the Sennhesier HD 380 Pro which I'm thinking might be an ideal candidate for gaming.

I'm just wondering, is such a studio type headset suited for gaming are am I barking up the wrong tree?

I've noted people saying they have an excellent sound stage for a closed-style headphone?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give - sorry for the long post!

 

[Lobovski]

I think the AKG 701/702's may suit your needs

 

[PapaLazaru]

AKG K712. Best all rounder in my opinion and can be had for £180 odd at the moment.

 

[Nugsy88]

I believe both suggested are open back? could be wrong. Have a look at Beyerdynamic Custom Game Gaming Headset and read up on them, they receive great reviews, I don't own a pair but I think they meet all your criteria.

 

[PapaLazaru]

If you need closed, then the AKG K550 MK2/3 (same but 3 has detachable cable) and a modmic.

 

[Marsman]

I believe both suggested are open back? could be wrong. Have a look at Beyerdynamic Custom Game Gaming Headset and read up on them, they receive great reviews, I don't own a pair but I think they meet all your criteria.

Yeah, AKG's are open.

No good really if the OP is to use them at LAN parties. They are the top choice though for positional sound.

Beyerdynamic Custom Game, MMX300 gen1 (which are available for £99 from a reputable seller on the famous auction website), or Sennheiser Game Zero. All are good closed headsets.

The Beyer's have plenty of bass though. Similar to the HyperX, if not more. Too much bass does hinder positional placement accuracy, so while either Beyer is a good closed headset, neither are ideal if positional accuracy is paramount. Sennheiser Game Zero will almost certainly perform better as the bass is not as pronounced.

AKG K550 are a good shout. Good sound stage for a closed headphone, which is the main area where closed headphones have as disadvantage compared to open design. Not a good choice for glasses wearers though, as that breaks the seal which affects the sound.

No idea what the HD380 sound stage is like. They fairly neutral though, which partly is what's needed for a decent gaming headphone.

 

[EsaT]

For about 10 years, I have diehard 'real' surround-sound fan and have gone though Speedlink Medusa 5.1, Roccat Kave 5.1 (and XTD) and Razer Tiamat 7.1 headsets in the search of surround sound perfection (go easy on me!).

I've always hated virtual surround sound solutions such as CMSS-3D, Corsair Void's and Astro A40's Dolby Surround, Hyper X Cloud 2's virtual 7.1 etc... however, that changed very recently when I tried Razer Surround which I am finding to be both clear and positionally correct.

There are no "real" surround headphones, that's marketing term for truckload of bling blinged cheap Chinese excrement.
No matter how many garbage drivers are crammed in its physically impossiblew for them to proper smooth 360 directionality like with proper surround speaker set.

Only real 3D sound with headphones is binaural sound.
It contains directly in signal those cues brain uses to process 3D sound source locations.
With good headphones it creates excellent feeling of being in there instead of listening headphones/recording.
http://berkeleybside.com/sound-dimensions-of-binaural-recording/

Of course we can't put dummy head with mics into game to get binaural sound directly.
But how sounds coming from different directions change on their way to both ears can be simulated mathematically.
And that's nothing new.
CMSS-3D is Creative's first algorithm for that, Originally with sound card getting actual 3D sound data including also height from game through DirectSound. (Microsoft killed game sound advance)
By killing bass it actually emphasizes foot steps and such heavily, unlike bass bloating Dolby Headphone of that Astro and Kingston HyperX.


Reproducing binaural sound signal just requires lot more from headphones than any stereo music.
While with good headphones besides smooth 360 directionality there's also good sense of distance that's where lots of headphones struggle in one or both.
With closed design being huge drag/challenge even for audio makers who know what they're doing.
Only very few closed headphones can produce binaural sound as well as good open headphones.
Like I said stereo music sounding good isn't enough because of its lot lower requirements.
And cheap production gaming trinkets are pretty much at level of "head in bucket under water" with no feel of distance and space.

(I like how Open sounds but I go to LAN parties and like noise cancellation so I can concentrate in all conditions)

But open headphones are no option in there...
So while for quieter home use open headphone would be lot better (AKG K701/702 are at absolute top for picking game apart from sounds) we have to compromise some... unless going for two headphones.

Beyerdynamic Custom One would offer multiple settings for amount of bass starting from "What's bass? Is it something you eat?" level:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicCustomProOneswitchposition1.pdf

But for the price that first gen Beyerdynamic MMX300 would be very good option with also built in mic included for less hassle on those LAN travels.
It's based on DT770 which has quite good binaural sound stage for closed headphone of its price.
As for that strong bass being bad for hearing foot steps and such details CMSS-3D already does lots of bass killing and equalizer (31/62/125Hz bands) would certainly do rest.
After all DT770 isn't some retarded nothing but bass garbage:
http://graphs.headphone.com/index.p...e=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph

 

[TerminatorUK]

Wow thanks for all the replies guys - I really appreciate it.

I'll try and answer a few if the very useful pieces of information here.

I think I've got my heart set on a closed-back design for practicality reasons so I'll use that criteria first to filter my searches.

I know I love the feel of open-back (and conversely don't like the 'thrusted' feel the sound right in your ear of the Hyper X Cloud 2's) so the recommendation of tbe AKG550 has been a real eye-opener in that regard.

I see there are 3 versions of it and also an AKG553 now which is meant to be a better version of it from what I've read.

The DT770 Pro Black Limited edition looks nice too - I know Beyers are the only phones where you get a choice of impedance rating.

I found a pair thatvis 80 ohm - very different to the 32 omh of the AKG550.

Is it true that the higher ohm = better sounding if you have sufficient drive for the headphones or is that false?

The AKM's have 50mm drivers too...not sure what the DT770's have...

 

[MrRockliffe]

Is it true that the higher ohm = better sounding if you have sufficient drive for the headphones or is that false?

The AKM's have 50mm drivers too...not sure what the DT770's have...

Different, not better or worse.

I've got a pair of MMX 300, but I don't think I'd recommend them for what you're after. It sounds like you're after something closed back with a large soundstage and considerably more analytical sound.

Which games are you playing? For me, I didn't find simulated 7.1 to be that good for positional audio, it just gave a sense of space.

 

[EsaT]

I think I've got my heart set on a closed-back design for practicality reasons so I'll use that criteria first to filter my searches.

I know I love the feel of open-back (and conversely don't like the 'thrusted' feel the sound right in your ear of the Hyper X Cloud 2's)

Open headphones simply wouldn't work in any bigger noisier LAN party.
(small home LANs are doable)
But maybe eventually having both closed and open headphones for different uses would be best...
Closed headphones especially with leather pads can easily cause sweating.
And with good open headphones it literally feels that game sounds come really dozens of meters away instead of next to you.

Though headphones alone don't do anything:
If signal lacks spatial cues brain uses to process sound's 3D location (like usual stereo speaker mix) it still sounds "in left ear/inside head/in right ear" no matter the headphones.
After all job of headphones is only reproducing that signal and they can never create information which doesn't exist in it.

Like this BattleField 4 stereo sound.
First listening that and then first minute is like from different game.
Assuming headphones are capable to reproducing binaural cues of signal...
Typical cheap closed headphones feel pretty much like having "head in bucket under water".

Is it true that the higher ohm = better sounding if you have sufficient drive for the headphones or is that false?

Driver construction differences between manufacturers are likely much much bigger factor than impedance.
But for same construction differences come from this:
To keep impedance low voice coil needs thicker wire, which increases its mass in turn changing its response to signal because of greater momentum.
(though increase in current lowers number of needed wire turns some)

Though electric damping factor likely plays role also in that:
Object with mass wants to retain its movement, so driver basically always overshoots little.
That excess motion compared to driving signal induces current into voice coil.
And headphone output/signal source acts as load for that induced current/voltage.
When impedance of output is low enough compared to impedance of headphone voice coil it drains that excess energy faster compared to high output impedance source.

 

[TerminatorUK]

Different, not better or worse.

I've got a pair of MMX 300, but I don't think I'd recommend them for what you're after. It sounds like you're after something closed back with a large soundstage and considerably more analytical sound.

Which games are you playing? For me, I didn't find simulated 7.1 to be that good for positional audio, it just gave a sense of space.

Indeed - that is exactly what I'm after really.

I play FPS games mostly and currently playing Overwatch a lot at the moment.

I think you guys have persuaded me that there are other good closed-back choices beyond the Sennhesier HD 380 and I think I'm edging towards the AKM 550/553 but there's a few reports I've read that the clamping force isn't very strong which can affect the sound quality? I do like their rugged / industrial looks though - look very nice!

The DT-770's sound very good (I love the look of the all-black special edition too), but I worry that they might be a bit 'bass heavy' and I've seen it said that the mid-tones are less pronounced than the higher trebles and bass?

To be honest, I think I'm going to be blown out of the water with any decent headphone upgrade but I'd quite like to get it right first time to get a set of cans suited to FPS gaming out of the gate.

Really appreciate the advice - I'm not going to lie that some of this is going over my head but I'm learning and find this all very interesting

 

[PapaLazaru]

I have owned the DT770 and the K550.

In my opinion, the K550 are superior in every respect.

Are you near a Richer Sounds? Go and try them on or just order from somewhere with a free returns process that also is a massive tax dodger so you can do it free of guilt.

 

[EsaT]

...edging towards theAKM 550/553 but there's a few reports I've read that the clamping force isn't very strong which can affect the sound quality?

Let's just stay with AKG as AKM is short for Avtomat Kalashnikova Modernizirovannyj...

Headphone frequency responses are always measured with clamping force they come with, so different headphones having different clamping force doesn't change things.
Of course modifying clamping force from default changes sound.
In case of closed headphones also changing seal between head and headphones can kill bass completely.
Those with non-breathing leather pads can be sensitive to even temples of glasses breaking seal.
Fabric/velour pads again let some air through so their normal seal isn't as air tight and would expect overall less effect.
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/effect-glasses-headphone-frequency-response

 

[TerminatorUK]

Lol AKM...haha sorry; you can tell I'm a gamer yes AKG I meant.

I think there is a richer sounds nearby but, to be honest, nothing beats trying them on your own system I feel so you know exactly how they will perform); I'm sure they wouldn't be impressed if I crack open a game if Overwatch or CS:GO in the middle of the shop and game for a few hours.

I'm definitely titling towards either the AKG550 mk3 or the AKG553. I have read the latter has more punch in the bass department which may not be perfect for my needs though. Thinking the fixed cable of the AKG553 might be preferable for security reasons at a big LAN that I can chain down with my other peripherals rather than the simple unplug of the mk3's.

I love the look of the velvet ear cups of the DT-770 but I fear the 'bassy' 80 ohm version may be wiping out what I'm looking to solve (more accuracy with positioning, clearer footsteps) and have less of a sound stage than the K550/553?

The DT770's have a 250 ohm version - not sure if that would trade the 80 ohm version's bass for more accurate sound stage?

 

[TerminatorUK]

Update on this folks - I've acquired myself a pair of AKG K550 mk2's from the wonderful folks at Richer Sounds on my visit to Exeter this week.

I got a bargain - it was their last pair and had no box so sold them for just £89.

I'm not sure what I was expecting to be honest but I wasn't "blown away" whilst listening in the shop. I bought them anyway thinking that it wasn't long enough and have used them with my phone - again good but somewhat 'meh' - it's hard to explain.

Overnight I even burnt them in for 8 hours placing them around a pillow and playing music though them but I don't think they sound dramatically different this morning.

Maybe this is a side effect of too many years of imbalanced cheap headphones but, with music at least, I found they were accurate but lack 'volume' and 'guts' - nothing really stands out or sounds that 'special'.

I guess that is the point of a 'neutral' headset and I'm jumping the gun before I get to try them with my own rig next week but I can't help but feel I've made a mistake at the moment

However, I have watched some Battlefield 4 positional videos on YouTube and I was very impressed by this - the space, positioning and accuracy of bass without being overpowering was just what I was looking for so excited to use these in action on my own rig.

I tried out the 'Virtual Barber Shop' binaural and was blown away by that - the clipping of scissors and the ruffling of the bag over the head was unnervingly realistic

Will update my impressions next week!

 

[MrRockliffe]

They will sound very flat compared to other headphones, and so, may sound 'bad' to you.

And that's okay - they do to me too. I don't like a flat sound signature, so I buy headphones which don't.

If you're near me at all, you're more than welcome to give the MMX 300 a go, which have a much more V shaped sound

 

[TerminatorUK]

Thanks guys

I run a pair of 250ohm DT990's with an M-DAC whilst I'm gaming. The positional sound you get from them for games like BF/PUBG is superior to any simulated 7.1 surround sound software + gaming headset that I've tried. Studio headphones are definitely the way to go and you've picked a great set .

Good to hear - I'm sure I'm jumping the gun but we'll see.

I'm toying with the idea of open backed but I think It'll just lead to disappoint at LAN events.

 

[TerminatorUK]

They will sound very flat compared to other headphones, and so, may sound 'bad' to you.

And that's okay - they do to me too. I don't like a flat sound signature, so I buy headphones which don't.

If you're near me at all, you're more than welcome to give the MMX 300 a go, which have a much more V shaped sound

Very kind offer indeed but I'm sure I'd drive you mad with my fussiness / indecisiveness lol!!

I really like the look of the MX300 gen2 though - looks awesome.

Bit out if my price range and would mean I'd waste the use of the mod mic 4 I've got but tempting...definitelt tempting...

 

[Rroff]

Closed back can tend to sound a little "constricted" to me - its definitely a benefit at LANs though - I've done like 15 people in a large conference room no problem with open back but if you are sitting in close proximity with a line of people beside, behind and in front of you in a big hall, etc. closed back are a blessing.