Headset / Headphones Help!

Associate
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Hello!

Looking for some advice! Was looking at buying a headset for gaming - mainly Battlegrounds and requiring positional audio. I was looking at Siberia 840's or Astro A50's but then started reading on here and seeing how a decent pair of headphones may be the way to go so, I've got all these ideas in my head and need some expert advice!

Ideally, if headphones, they would plug into my sound card (Asus Strix Soar) - heard they have a 600ohm headphone amp - hoping that's actually true and is sufficient! Have looked at AKG 612 Pro's, Beyerdynamic DT990's and some Sennheiser's. Then the Sennheiser GSX 1000 got thrown into the mix.

I'm lost - any and all advice appreciated!

Thanks!

-LiveWire
 
Soldato
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Marketing likes to stick all kind of lines into adds but you know how marketing should be treated...
Sure good modern sound cards drive about all headphones to sound pressures making hearing head toward "early retirement" in minutes.
But for fully driving some 600 ohm headphones in all situations (peaks of high dynamic range music) wouldn't exactly trust any sound card to have enough reserves for that.
Anyway there aren't even much of 600 ohm headphones available.

Though impedance is far from everything.
What isn't so commonly advertised is that different headphones have different efficiency in making sound from electric power.
Some Hifimans can need almost thousand times as much power for same sound pressure than highest efficiency IEMs.
AKGs are also below average efficiency cans so despite of lowish impedance they still need some amount of power.
Similar impedance HD598/9 Sennheisers would output lot more sound at same volume setting.

Common 250 ohm Beyers with their average efficiency are rather easy load with neither highest voltage or high current need and are insensitive to output impedance.
(TPA6120 of that Asus card is specified to need 10 ohm output resistor to stay stable)
All versions of Beyers have same efficiency and hence same power requirement:
32 ohms ones just take power as higher current from low voltage while 600 ohms ones need lots of volts but very little current.

For gaming use Beyerdynamics have one nice bonus:
If you ever need to have microphone it's easy to attach normal microphone to them if ModMic's price tag looks expensive.
DT770 mic mod


Any way first thing to narrow down is do you have quiet environment or need isolation of external sounds?
Besides no additional sweating from open headphones their overal sound and sound stage is often lot better for positional audio/binaural sound.
Closed headphones, even better ones, tend to have always quite lot smaller sound stage...
And cheap Chinese gaming junks are like putting head into bucket.

Also if you want maximum competitiveness meaning easiest hearing of foot steps etc bass neutral headphones have starting advantage in that.
Though "shy" bass eats fun factor badly so it's always compromise.
And equalizer can be used to tone down bass if needed.
(and without any danger of sound quality degradation unlike in boosting weak bass)
So likely you want headphones with good robustness in bass, but without it drowning everything else, like in cheap junks.


Beyer's DT990 balances nicely in that. (coming from bass neutral HD595)
Most AKGs, like one of the best for competitive gaming K701/702 are quite bass neutral.
K712 heads toward DT990's balancing.

Sennheiser HD598/9 are again good for that competitive sound with "no fun" neutral bass.
More bass robust HD600/650 seem to be aimed for enjoying from music with more compact sound stage...
Instead of "those shots sound truly like coming from dozens/hundred meters away" sound.


This is very good for testing headphones. (everything sounds coming from next to ear with cheap closed design junks)
Earlier Asus cards used that gothic cathedral/public bath called Dolby Headphone but I have no idea what those latest Strix cards use.
Might be just more common downmixing to avoid paying too much licensing fees.
I think maker of codec chips used in Asus cards has its own one, which would be likely cheap enough.


Sennheiser GSXes are essentially how gaming products are made:
You take cheap ass Conexant DAC/output buffer chip meant for phones/tablets and below level of £30 sound cards parts and sell it with huge profit margin.
Even integrated average Realteks are better.
As car comparison that Asus would be Jaguar/Rolls Royce and GSX Morris Mini.

Astro's Mixamp is likely at similar level and most headset USB dongles likely even cheaper.
And it and lot others use that apparently cheaply licensed Dolby Headphone.
 
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Wow, thank you EsaT for that very in-depth response!

For clarity, my environment will be pretty quiet so I think open cans would definitely be the way forward for me. Also, pinpointing footsteps and gunfire is more important to me than earth-shattering bass (though it is always good to have bass, it's not high on my wish list!), so "bass neutral" sounds like the right road to go down.

If I'm reading right, that would leave the likes of the DT990 and the K701/702/712. Do the 612's sit in this field do you know, or are they less neutral?

A mic would be useful, but not groundbreaking - was looking at the Modmic but that mic mod you've linked sure looks interesting!

Thank you for the car comparison - that explains it beautifully (and means I don't have to worry about additional purchases!).
 
Soldato
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Because of physics open design dynamic driver headphones like DT990 can't have that strong "earth shattering" bass.

Sound wise closed design's only advantage is there in their capability to that earth shattering lowest bass.
But it's also lot harder to balance their sound with bass becoming very easily overpowering, besides sound stage size problems.
And in case of cheap China junk there often isn't anything else than that bass (or then bass is very weak)


K612 should be very similar to K701/702 (or Sennheiser HD59x) with neutral bass:
Top level competitiveness - very mediocre fun factor.
I think it also has same efficiency, but higher impedance makes it more demanding for output because of needing higher volts for same power.

More recent K712 differs from those earlier models with very DT990 like frequency response compromising top of that competitiveness to add good amount of fun.
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCo...[]=4163&graphID[]=703&graphID[]=2851&scale=30
Beyerdynamic's DT880 has that neutral bass, but semi-open design also gives it apparently notably worser sound stage and directionality.
So it would be below DT990 in both fun and competitiveness.

I used HD595 before DT990 and wouldn't go back to that neutral bass.
If necessary toning down bass in equalizer doesn't have any risk of sound quality decrease.
With 24 bits there's "plenty of decimals" to do adjustments without rounding errors.
Again trying to boost bass brings risk of signal clipping closer and if signal clips that's bad thing for sound quality.


Continuing car comparisons to "gaming" headphones/headsets they're selling shiny colour painted Ladas/Trabants/Wartburgs at price of that Jaguar/Rolls Royce.
(except QPAD QH1339 which is custom colour Beyer MMX300)
 
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Loving the car comparisons!

Out of curiosity, you say you wouldn't "go back to that neutral bass" - is that because you prefer bass for the "fun factor", or have I mis-interpreted?
 
Soldato
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Horse wagon just might be more fit for lots of China garbage gaming junk in car comparison:
Oh man my Beyerdynamic 990 pro just arrived...
My previous Asus Vulcan can go to hell...
The bass and everything on the Asus Vulcan felt like medieval headphone after using the Beyerdynamic

http://www.overclock.net/t/1337761/...aster-z-zx-zxr-series-club/1330#post_21168377

Don't know about UK pricing but here DT990 Pro costs 130€, which isn't much higher than average price of gaming brands today.
Difference to normal Edition/Premium is some more clamping force and coiled/curled cable, because of being ment for studio use next to mixing table.
(Pro Limited Edition again has straight 3m cable)


Because ear's response/sensitivity to bass drops faster than to mids neutral bass becomes easily very "shy" at moderate sound pressures.
It just doesn't have that feeling there unless source signal is bass exaggerating or that overal volume higher.
So above neutral bass gives good sounding sound more easily without so much overall dBs.

Side by side comparing bass neutral HD595 and DT990 with that BF4 comparison HD595 has definite edge in hearing footsteps etc...
In their strength/volume, direction and distance feel is quite similar.
(as in that someone shooting hundred meters away instead of everything next to ear of China garbage)
But bass just isn't there and has "empty feeling" without punch in it.

Taking 5 dBs out from DT990's bass would likely result rather similar overall experience.
Just don't have way to test it...
While I have two Objective2 headphone amps (for also easy side by side comparison) I don't have separate equalizer...
Though "T*rd" Beach Z60 sounds depressing as ever making DT990 feel bass lacking.
Like Z60 having only bass and DT990 everything else...



As for why trying to boost bass has its risks while toning it down not:
If scale of signal is from 0 to 10 and signal amplitude already 6 and you try to double that you'll clip signal to 10 instead of getting 12.
Again halving that signal to tone down bass would give correct inside scale result of 3.
(24 bit signal just has ~16,7 million steps/values for amplitude)
 
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That's definitely promising :)

Sounds like perhaps the DT990 could be the way to go - so much choice though, gets awful confusing for an audio noob such as myself :)
 
Soldato
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Don't lower yourself, you're newbie, not noob.

Noob is someone who doesn't know/understand a thing and isn't even willing to learn/understand a thing.
(+brain capacity to that being question mark)
Like Brainless Boat aka BB players in World of Warships who keep sailing in straight line to get sinked by one minute travel time torpedoes and then complain about torps being OP.
(then often turning to Balless Boats hiding at max range using unarmored ships as meatshield to avoid paint job getting scratched by blocked/bounced shells)


If there's one thing that's sure it's amount of choises.
With everything being compromise on some way.

And while there are definitely differences to more costlier headphones differences start becoming smaller compared to price differences.
With personal likes playing major roles in what sounds good.
Like some liking below neutral treble calling it as "warm" sound.
Usually using tube amplifier to distort frequency response of any content to that shape.

And different uses can definitely benefit from different type/style headphones.
For example music can benefit from more compact/"closer" sound instead of big sound stage.
Sennheiser HD600/650 liked by many for music are apparently such.
But losing to cheaper HD59x in gaming with their more bassy/low&mids emphasizing frequency response and smaller sound stage.


Heck, even that T*rd Beach Z60 has not bad at all "agressive front row feeling" sound in some rock music.
But anything requiring more than bass is horrible including movies:
Feels like "Did they use speaker connected to input in place of microphone or why dialogue sounds so muffled/bad?".
And like I said in binaural game sound directionality isn't good and there's no depth/distance... other sounds are just more muffled than others.

But then we have those real noobs with no idea of what they're doing and never comparing to other headphones than cheap China junk...
And suddenly all gaming garbages with fancy names/enough advertising get automatically good "reviews".:rolleyes:
 
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This is true - thank you :) Your advice has been invaluable.

Think it's between the DT 990's and perhaps the K712 Pro - with such money on the table, always fearful of making a wrong decision.
 
Soldato
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Sorry don't mean to be parasite but I was wondering EsaT, what would you recommend if LiveWireUK (Really me!) needed a wireless option instead of those DT 990's that are wired.
I would myself look at Sennheiser RS-models.
Standard AAA-NiMHs guarantee that they don't become disposable trash once batteries age/wear.

Unfortunately during model changes Sennheiser has made most of them closed headphones and now only open one is rather costly.
Though for just music smaller sound stage from closed wouldn't be problem, unlike for binaural game sound.
 
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Just as an update, I went for the DT990 Pro 250Ohm set. Although I have no other headphones to compare to, I CAN say the sounds on these are awesome. Crisp, clear, accurate. Using these in Battlegrounds, I can finally pinpoint things!

Thank you very much for your help and advise EsaT, really appreciated!
 
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Just as an update, I went for the DT990 Pro 250Ohm set. Although I have no other headphones to compare to, I CAN say the sounds on these are awesome. Crisp, clear, accurate. Using these in Battlegrounds, I can finally pinpoint things!
Cheat mode enabled, others better avoid trying to sneak close...:D

I guess it tells lot about quality of gaming garbage that Asus even has software which would show direction of sounds as overlay on screen.
And DT990 Pro isn't even that much more expensive than average price of those Chinese junk headsets.

If headband's clamping force feels too much just try bending it some.
Spring steel inside cushion doesn't break easily unlike plastics.
 
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Sorry to resurrect this thread but hoping you can give me some more advice EsaT.

Things were going brilliantly well and then I decided to upgrade my graphics card which meant moving around some cards inside. I now seem to get buzzing from the left driver when plugged into my soundcard. Plugged into the green socket on the onboard audio and this disappears. I'm thinking it's picking up some interference from inside.

Whilst I doubt that can be sorted without replacing something inside, I'm wondering if it's worth going down the external amp+dac route but I'm even more lost with that!

Hoping you (or anyone else!) can provide some advice :)

For reference, my onboard sound uses the Realtek® ALC892 codec
 
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Soldato
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If motherboard's integrated doesn't pick it up then that Asus somehow takes interference from new graphics card.
And unless card is in next slot to graphics card I would consider its extra power input as suspicious..

Are you using separate PCI-e power cable for sound card instead of it being some split cable with graphics card?
If PSU is one with multiple current limiters aka marketing rails trying cable from different "rail" would be thing to try. (or Molex to PCI-e adapter)
At least try to keep some distance between graphics card and sound card.
 
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Despite me moving cards around, the gap between graphics card and sound card were the same. They are on different power cables, as the graphics card requires 2 x 8-pin so had to use a 6-pin from a different cable. Onboard definitely doesn't pick it up as I've put it through it's paces.

Oddly enough it only seems to happen when I'm gaming - I can't detect it when I'm listening to music - I've read that may be down to frame rates but not sure what I can realistically do about that.

As the onboard sounds fine I'm putting up with it for now but it's lost some punch. Started looking at the Sound Blaster E5 as that's got good reviews but I'm not sure what an expert would think :)

I'll try a different power cable, just to be sure, but would greatly appreciate any advice you can give :)
 
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Update - decided to re-seat the card and muck around with the cables and it's definitely improved - occasionally it comes back, and definitely seems tied into on-screen movement etc. I'm wondering if the power cables supplying the graphics and sound cards were too close and perhaps that caused interference?
 
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and definitely seems tied into on-screen movement etc.
Which is likely connected to high power draw of graphics card...
Or maybe it's not power draw itself but some right frequency variation in power draw.

Btw, what are the old and current graphics card and what PSU you have there?
 
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Old card was the EVGA GTX 980Ti SC ACX2Cool
New card is a Gigabyte Aorus GeForce GTX 1080Ti "Xtreme Edition"

Power Supply is a Corsair RMi1000

If it helps, monitor was changed from the AOC U3477PQU to the AOC Agon AG352UCG - refresh rate up from 60hz to 100hz.

I've set the graphics card to it's lowest possible mode - "Silent Mode" - to reduce to memory and GPU clocks in an attempt to cut down on the power draw.
 
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