Heating a basement over winter

mucky1957

mucky1957

mucky1957

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30 Oct 2024
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10
Location
UK
Hi guys,

First timer here so thank you for letting me join.

I have a condensate boiler with an outside pipe for the waste water. For the last two winters either my outside pipe or the condensate trap under the boiler has frozen. I have double lagged the outside pipe and I have lagged the trap as well. I am still worried that if we get a weeks worth of really cold weather ( like the last two winters ) something will freeze and the heating wont work.

We are away from home for 3 weeks in January ( if I was home I wouldn’t be so worried ) and want to know if I could do the following in the basement. There are air bricks and small holes around the room.

Could I get a small heater and use it with a thermostat plug so that if the temp drops below 3c or 4c the heater would kick in ?? If this is an idea then what size heater would I need. The room is about 10’ x 8’ and about 7’ high. The heater could sit close to the condensate trap and direct any heat onto it.

If this isnt a good idea does anyone have something that is.

Thanks in advance.
 
Can you run it on low all the time?

My in laws have theirs in their garage and that'll freeze up in the winter so theirs just constantly runs on low when its really cold to stop it freezing up.
 
short answer is yes but Im thinking about the cost
the basement will be a lot smaller than a garage and I assume naturally more insulated..three and a half brick walls and a wooden door
 
Rather than a room heater you could get a "Heat trace cable" to insert into your lagging. It would use far less energy just keeping the pipes warm as opposed to the whole room.
 
doesn't the condensate external pipe have some fall, and to some degree if the trap froze, you'd be as concerned inlet water in the boiler could freeze,
so (as suggested) running it on a anti-freeze/low setting maybe needed - give someone the key to turn the pre-heat on if needed ?.
 
The pipe shouldn't freeze if it has an adequate fall. A dirty plumber move is to add no real fall to the condensate and then reap the callbacks every winter when it freezes.

Can you post some pics of the pipe run and the boiler location? This could help with recommendations.

Gammawolf's suggestion of a heated cable is a great middle ground. Just make sure the cable doesn't get hot enough to melt the pipe or the lagging.
 
First off..thanks for the replies and apologies for the long reply.
I do have photos to post on my pc desktop but can't see how to attach them ?? I can't see a thumbnail option..sorry.

We have a condensate boiler in an unheated basement. For the last two winters when we had 4 or 5 days of sub-zero temperatures either the pipe outside or the condensate trap box have frozen causing the excess water to back up into the boiler and the boiler shutting down.

A heat trace unit has been attached to the outside pipe..it is currently showing RED but not showing GREEN and it is currently -3c here.

The outside pipe was lagged last year by the installer and I have lagged it again this year over the first lot of lagging with the reflective sheeting. I have also lagged the pipe leading from the boiler to the trap and lagged the trap itself.

My main concern is the three weeks in January that we will be away from home. ( If I was home I could deal with no heating as soon as it happened ). I have my son coming in every couple of days but I don’t expect him to be able to sort out a frozen pipe.

I accept that if it is -3 and the heating has come on then there ‘probably’ isn’t a problem. I need to have 3 or 4 days of really hard cold to be sure. I had a gas engineer out yesterday and he said that IF there was a freeze incident it would likely be the condensate trap inside the basement..and that’s why I want to add a small amount of heating to the basement IF..and I do say IF..the temperature drops really low in the basement.
 
koolpc said:
If it were me, i would just keep the system on very low.
Click to expand...
the problem isnt the system..the problem is very cold weather. Regardless of whether the boiler is on 24/7 or not if the temperatures drop then the excess water explelled from the boiler might freeze in the condensate trap or the outside pipe and then the boiler shuts down. I can't do anything more with the outside pipe but I can keep the temperature above freezing or really low by adding extra heating to the basement. Question is .. how to do that.
 
mucky1957 said:
the problem isnt the system..the problem is very cold weather. Regardless of whether the boiler is on 24/7 or not if the temperatures drop then the excess water explelled from the boiler might freeze in the condensate trap or the outside pipe and then the boiler shuts down. I can't do anything more with the outside pipe but I can keep the temperature above freezing or really low by adding extra heating to the basement. Question is .. how to do that.
Click to expand...
Excess water will be warm and should run down and out.....shouldnt be an issue esp as the pipe is lagged.
 
I had thought he was ralking about a condensate trap inside the boiler (which is what I have had evacuation problems with on mine) but guess he is talking about mechanism to get the condensate form the boiler
in basement to a higher level with a further condensate trap, my parents have that situation - I thought there was even another pump involved to push the condensate uphill, so maybe that is part of the issue ?
 
mucky1957 said:
the problem isnt the system..the problem is very cold weather. Regardless of whether the boiler is on 24/7 or not if the temperatures drop then the excess water explelled from the boiler might freeze in the condensate trap or the outside pipe and then the boiler shuts down. I can't do anything more with the outside pipe but I can keep the temperature above freezing or really low by adding extra heating to the basement. Question is .. how to do that.
Click to expand...
You're probably overthinking this.

If you want to keep the room above freezing, then a heater with a thermostat will do that - and virtually all heaters have thermostats.

Then you're just debating whether to use electric heating or a fuel of some kind. Realistically for this kind of problem anything other than electric is going to be a pain.

Since all electric heaters are 100% efficient (heat pumps are another kettle of fish), from a cost perspective it doesn't really matter which you choose.

An oil filled radiator would probably achieve it, with less issues of dust / things falling on top of it that you can get with a blow heater, though from what I understand those are safer than you think anyway.

If you buy a cheap oil radiator and a plug that measures the kwh (or a smart plug of some kind) you can potentially keep an eye on the costs more directly as well.
 
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jpaul said:
I had thought he was ralking about a condensate trap inside the boiler (which is what I have had evacuation problems with on mine) but guess he is talking about mechanism to get the condensate form the boiler
in basement to a higher level with a further condensate trap, my parents have that situation - I thought there was even another pump involved to push the condensate uphill, so maybe that is part of the issue ?
Click to expand...
the condensate trap is underneath the boiler and there is a pipe that runs from the bottom of the boiler into the trap. The trap collects water and at some point it reaches a level where the motor inside the trap expels the excess water. The external pipe has a drop of about 20 degrees from the top to the bottom
 
Not related to this issue, but one we use constantly and can be checked and used remotely is the small but powerful --->Dreo<---
which could be a solution to your problem.
 
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