Heel-toeing

lordrobs said:
I think this might be where you are struggling agw as it sounds like you are trying to rotate your foot too much.

As Merlin said you don't hit the gas with your full heel.

With my size 11's I have the ball of my foot on the brakes, foot at about 30 degrees and hit the gas with my right side of my foot just infront of my heel.
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This is how I was shown to do it, but on older cars the pedals are a bit smaller and at the same height :D
 
Jez said:
edit: 2 more posts since i started typing! Maybe i am being cynical but i just cant see that its going to make any odds on dodgy english roads where its all bumpy and muddy and its almost impossible to "settle" a car anyway.
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Its not neccessary on the road, it just won't give you any noticable benefit unlesss your absolutely caining it, which is not for the roads. However, I wouldn't say it was a few bumps in the road and some mud make it pointless, rally drivers use it on gravel stages.
 
Serj said:
Sorry mate but editing your post just because someone said you were wrong is LAME. :)
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If I admitted I was wrong later in the thread and left that post there, I'd get a barrage of replies from people all cussing me about being wrong.

What I posted was incorrect. I realised that, and don't see the point about pursuing it. At least I know when I'm wrong and don't try and argue that I'm right for the rest of the thread.

Thanks for bringing it up though, and I'm so glad Simon got some amusement from it. :o
 
andi said:
. However, I wouldn't say it was a few bumps in the road and some mud make it pointless, rally drivers use it on gravel stages.
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Do modern rally cars use a clutch when changing gear though? I thought they were sequential box's.

If so you could use both feet.
 
Bug One said:
Do modern rally cars use a clutch when changing gear though? I thought they were sequential box's.

If so you could use both feet.
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Some cars are some arnt (i think)

And they do/used to Heel toe drive on mud/gravel/bumpy road because it helps keep the car stable.
If a car gets unstable on a road like that the back end could slip out at those speeds and its all over.
 
cba to read the thread so this might've already being posted:

It's not just rally drivers that heel and toe, practically all race car drivers do it, as it helps keep the balance of the car, instead of making large weight transitions.

Also, in my experience, heel and toeing doesn't really work at low revs... well, I can't do it at low revs, as you the actual action of the heel and toe means you sort of need to blip the throttle quite a lot (meaning you'd need to be changing down into high revs). Hope this makes sense.
 
Andy - will give you a quick demo at the RR day, or before if you're coming down. My technique isn't perfect, but it works 95% of the time.
 
I personally heel-toe to rev-match in order to get a smoother downshift, and to prevent that jerk due to the different speeds of the clutch and flywheel. It prevents unecessary strain to the gearbox, and its better if you're carrying passengers. I even done this on my driving test, coming up to the end of a dual carriageway and approaching a roundabout, I remember doing a heel-toe and rev-matching from fifth to third - no jerk at all and I'm sure the examiner was pleased. ;)
 
Track braking zone activity aside, the technique is sympathetic to the car mechanically (depending on gearbox type). Typically it will reduce the load on the syncromesh as you're doing some of the work for it by pre-revving prior to engaging lower gears.
 
I have read all of this thread and understand the technique and why it's done but I'm now wondering whether to start doing it myself.

I'm sure I can adjust myself so that I'm doing it all the time, and I like the idea of it being gentler on the gearbox and clutch/etc but are there any drawbacks? Do you guys that do this all the time ever screw up and fall off the brake or anything?
 
Bug One said:
Do modern rally cars use a clutch when changing gear though? I thought they were sequential box's.

If so you could use both feet.
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Didn't think of that, but yeah, WRC cars are sequential. Lower classes of rally still use a standard box though, and they all heal + toe.
 
Skiddley said:
Track braking zone activity aside, the technique is sympathetic to the car mechanically (depending on gearbox type). Typically it will reduce the load on the syncromesh as you're doing some of the work for it by pre-revving prior to engaging lower gears.
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Yep. It's something I've done since my dad showed me when I was 17 or so, at the time I was more impressed that it sounded cool on my airbox-less Escort 1.6 than anything else.

It just creates a nice fluid feel to your drive.

Took a mate's Nova 1.3 SR (random Ebay purchase!) out for a blat over the mountain and found that the throttle pedal is so heavy compared with my 205 that I could barely heel and toe without fracturing some bones in the side of my foot :D
 
I tend to use it for the reasons stated above. Furthermore the pedals on the mx5 are perfectly setup for doing it nicely. It's fare more fun driving a whizzy little car like the mx5 which loves to go for the corners with a bit of a panache and as if you were going 100mph when in fact you're only doing 30 or so!

Then again I've always tended to do it ever since getting into the habit of doing it... I guess also riding a bike gets you used to doing it, I brake and drop down gears on the bike instinctively - it makes for much smoother riding.
 
I've practiced a bit with heel-toe, but dont use it.
I've practiced a bit with left foot braking, but dont use it.

I think double declutching is for idiots, though I do know it has its place (and that its not in corsas).

I do blip the accelerator but nothing too agressive, just to try and match revs.


No doubt people will argue with its uses, specifically on the road. I couldn't care less what people think.
 
Even though I've not replied in a while, just thought I'd let you guys know that I'm not ignoring the replies :)

I've read and taken in every post that's been made.

lordrobs, you were spot on. I was actually moving my foot almost 90º. I tried again tonight, and tried rotating my foot about 40º. I found it much much easier to keep the brakes applied evenly and blip the throttle... although I'm still blipping it too much, so the revs are about 1000rpm too high.

Ah well, with a bit more practice, I'm sure I'll get the hang of it.

Cheers for all the input.
 
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