Help Diagnosing Ongoing Networking Issue

DampCat

DampCat

DampCat

Soldato
Joined
26 Feb 2007
Posts
14,177
Location
Leafy Cheshire
Hi Guys

I've been fighting an ongoing issue for some time now where i'm getting constant WIFI dropouts downstairs in my house. It's mainly my Apple TV 4K in the Kitchen that suffers, where programs apruptly end. This can happen every 10 to 15 minutes, or be fine for hours at a time. It does affect other devices such as phones and tablets.

I have replaced almost everything to no avail, and so I'm beginning to wonder if it's something software related that I just don't understand. I've never been good at networking, even with one as simple as this.

I'll try to give a full overview of what I have, and what I've tried.

PlusNet Full Fibre 900. Current uptime on HomeHub 2 was 72 days or so until i replaced it with a new router yesterday.
HomeHub2, replaced with TPLink Archer AX5400, has not solved the issue. This is upstairs on the opposite side of the house to the kitchen.
Ubiquiti Unifi ceiling AP, using POE mounted just outside the kitchen. Replaced this with a TPLink Omada POE unit. Has not fixed the issue.

Main Wifi Network upstairs seems fine.
Main Wifi Network downstairs gets weak (understandably)
AP broadcasting 2 SSIDs. One is same name as Main Wifi, to allow moving between strongest signal. Second i created just for the AppleTV 4k to see if it was an issue switching between the two identical SSIDs causing the issue. It still drops out.

My PC btw has never lost connection, wired or wireless (I had to move it away from the router and now plug it in with an extra long cable only when i need, instead using Wifi for most tasks).

Is there any logs or similar i can post that may help illuminate issues? Or anything stupid I've done that i should know better?

I'm kind of going insane.

Thanks for any help at all.
 
I havent, but the AP is probably 4ft from the Apple TV 4k, 6 inches from the kitchen door which doesn't close.

When the signal drops, the network disappears entirely from Wifi interfaces (when you're choosing a network to connect to if that makes sense.
 
Are you using 5Ghz on the DFS channels? Those are notorious for blinking out, especially if you're in or near a built up city area.

Also, as above, do a WiFi scan of the area, see how crowded the place and set a static channel if possible to use; at my parents place for example, I saw some 16 channels on the 2.4ghz all over the place (on every channel, some using multiple channels as well), and indiscriminate use of 5ghz as well that forced automatic detection settings to do constant resets to get a "better channel" that wasn't so busy. And even then I had to place specific channels that wouldn't conflict with other local devices that could broadcast on the same range so it wouldn't try to find a better channel all the time.
 
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Perhaps a stupid question, but are you turning on / off something else in the kitchen?

Don't necessarily look at the network first.
 
HDMI senders trashed a 2.4Ghz network for me once. Get it working if you can and run some continuous pings and switch some stuff on.
 
alex24 said:
Does it happen on 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz?

Also any stats on signal strength for affected devices?
Click to expand...
I understand the Omada AP I have is only 2.4ghz, the EAP110 V4. I've updated it's firmware recently. I don't recall if the Unifi one was 5ghz though and I've since given it away.

Do I need a third AP for testing?
 
Meddling-Monk said:
Are you using 5Ghz on the DFS channels? Those are notorious for blinking out, especially if you're in or near a built up city area.

Also, as above, do a WiFi scan of the area, see how crowded the place and set a static channel if possible to use; at my parents place for example, I saw some 16 channels on the 2.4ghz all over the place (on every channel, some using multiple channels as well), and indiscriminate use of 5ghz as well that forced automatic detection settings to do constant resets to get a "better channel" that wasn't so busy. And even then I had to place specific channels that wouldn't conflict with other local devices that could broadcast on the same range so it wouldn't try to find a better channel all the time.
Click to expand...

What software do you recommend for doing this? I have Android and IOS devices plus laptops etc.

As above I believe both downstairs SSIDs to be 2.4ghz only.

802.11b/g/n mixed
Channel Width Auto
Channel Auto
Tx Power 19
Load Balance not enabled
Beacon Interval 100
DTIM period 1
RTS Threshold 2347
Fragmentation Threshold 2346


Looking at the AP logs I'm getting a lot of errors that read:

AP_C_FL Warning
[Client: xx-xx-xx-xx-xx-xx] failed to connected to [ap:xx-xx-xx-xx-xx-xx] with SSID "SSID name here" on channel 1 because WPA Authentication times out/failed. (1 time in a minute)

This seems to be different MAC addresses to both SSIDs, but always Channel 1.

I can post the full 24 hour log if there's no danger in doing so.
 
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leezer3 said:
Perhaps a stupid question, but are you turning on / off something else in the kitchen?

Don't necessarily look at the network first.
Click to expand...

I don't think so, it'll often be while we're just sat eating dinner with the kids. But it is a kitchen and it is full of stuff :/
 
Steveocee said:
HDMI senders trashed a 2.4Ghz network for me once. Get it working if you can and run some continuous pings and switch some stuff on.
Click to expand...

I was recommended replacing the HDMI cable in the Apple TV 4k with a shielded one as apparently that's a known issue. I got the best Cable Matters one I could find but doesn't seem to have solved.

I can try turning the whole house off and bringing it back in bit by bit if I can't find a solution above
 
The suggestion is about narrowing down the issue, if possible. Drop-outs could be interference, which is likely to be present on one frequency but not another.

That AP is 2.4GHz only I believe. The log entries could be signal strength related or some other config issue. What security are you running? WPA2?

Get an affected phone, load a WiFi analyzer app and see what the signal strength is like and also congestion with other networks.
 
alex24 said:
Get an affected phone, load a WiFi analyzer app and see what the signal strength is like and also congestion with other networks.
Click to expand...
Was going to suggest the same app, @DampCat that's the app I am using to monitor the local WiFi airwaves.

Use that to see if anything is really congested or if there's another signal that's really strong on the same channel you're using.
 
DampCat said:
I was recommended replacing the HDMI cable in the Apple TV 4k with a shielded one as apparently that's a known issue. I got the best Cable Matters one I could find but doesn't seem to have solved.

I can try turning the whole house off and bringing it back in bit by bit if I can't find a solution above
Click to expand...
Who the hell told you that? Wasn't the person selling the shielded HDMI cable was it?
 
Meddling-Monk said:
Was going to suggest the same app, @DampCat that's the app I am using to monitor the local WiFi airwaves.

Use that to see if anything is really congested or if there's another signal that's really strong on the same channel you're using.
Click to expand...

I've just loaded Ubiquiti's WiFiman app up.

Everything looks ok from the kitchen. Channel 1 is busiest (33% utilisation) at -57dBm. but Channel Health for all 13 on 2.4ghz is Good or Excellent.

The only thing it seems to highlight as a potential issue is the use of Wifi4.

5ghz is at -85dBm and highlighted as poor but that's to be expected since it's coming from the archer upstairs on the other side of the house.

And yes security is WPA2
 
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Steveocee said:
Who the hell told you that? Wasn't the person selling the shielded HDMI cable was it?
Click to expand...
It was a suggestion from this forum in the Plusnet thread when I thought the issue was specific to the AppleTV before realising it affects all my devices.
 
Steveocee said:
So in short, 2.4Ghz coverage is OK but 5Ghz isn't in the location you want to use it?
Click to expand...
I don't think I need 5ghz specifically in the kitchen for any reason. I just want any working signal. It's only phones and TV boxes.

The only other things I think I haven't tried is running a new ethernet cable to the AP, or using a mesh WiFi system instead? But that's a big cost when I can't understand why two different APs are having issues.
 
DampCat said:
The only other things I think I haven't tried is running a new ethernet cable to the AP, or using a mesh WiFi system instead? But that's a big cost when I can't understand why two different APs are having issues.
Click to expand...

You described the router being opposite side of the house on another floor. That perfectly explains why 2 differing units would have the same issue. There isn't a magic device that can get wifi further, routers in the UK are regulated to have the same total output level. The trade off is how concentrated in specific directions it is.

Out of interest, if you take your ATV closer to the router (in another room) does it work? Is it ALL devices in the kitchen?

It sounds like you are going to need mesh or a better solution.
 
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