Help needed - cpu overheating

johnhaines

johnhaines

johnhaines

Associate
Joined
9 Jan 2010
Posts
25
Hi everyone, not sure if this is the correct forum ... but here goes.

I bought the following rig from overclockers back in 2015:
"Titan Envy Duo DC":
Intel Core i7 4790K (Devil's Canyon) @ 4.6GHz Overclocked
Asus TUF Sabertooth Z97 Mark 2 Intel Z97 (Socket 1150) DDR3 ATX Motherboard
GeForce GTX 970 OC Silent "Infin8 Black Edition"
Kingston HyperX 16GB (2x8GB) PC3-19200C11 2400MHz Dual Channel Kit
SuperFlower Leadex GOLD 1000W Fully Modular "80 Plus Gold" Power Supply

Last year I replaced the GTX 970 with an EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 XC Ultra Gaming.

Over the last few weeks I have been getting the dreaded BSOD with a WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR message ... such a helpful message. Typically this has only been happening in a few games:

Borderlands 3 after I started playing it again a few weeks ago (have a few hundred hours from last year into the start of this year with no issue). Typically crashes after a few minutes of play.
Horizon Zero Dawn ... I don't even get past the initial shader build step to the main menu.
MS Flight Simulator 2020 after maybe 5 minutes of flight, or after several minutes browsing the planes in the hangar.
Grounded after 15-20 minutes of play.

After trying a number of software fix suggestions I found on the interwebs I am left with the probability that there is a hardware "fault".

I have tried running the memory check ... no issues shown.

I finally thought to download and run MSI Afterburner with the OSD on to see if that shows anything. I find that most games seem to take the CPU Temp to between 45 and 55 degrees, however when I loaded Horizon Zero Dawn and it started the shader build step(?) the temps started at 60 and just went up. At about 30% through they were running at 78/79 and then the BSOD occurs. I am guessing that is my issue.

The other thing I noticed is that unlike most other games horizon zero dawn seemed to be running all the logical cpu cores flat out whereas most of the other games I play only seem to hit one or two.

My problem is I don't know the best solution.

The CPU currently has the same sealed watercooler on it from 5 years ago when overclockers put the rig together for me. Is that an issue ... do I need a better cooler?

Is there something else I can do? Please help ...

Thanks,
John
 
What cooler, case and case fans? First thought is when was last time case vents, filters, fans and cooler radiator fins were cleaned?
 
Hi doyll, thanks for responding.

I tried looking back in my order history to see what details I could get ... only those in my original post were available. However, browsing the catalogue I have determined that my case is a Corsair OBSIDIAN 750D FULL TOWER CASE - BLACK. Here is a picture of the mb and cooler:
0Cp0GfPKNooK6Ack8o-6CkDVg
0dAiFB2mnYoN3gONXzB_vb0RA

I am not sure what water cooler it is but there are two 120mm fans between the radiator and the top grill. There are two 140mm fans at the front of the case and one at the rear behind the cpu. All of this is as iot was set up originally by Overclockers. The only internal changes I have made are swapping the original gtx 970 for the rtx 2070, adding a usb 3.1 type c pci card, the optical drive and the a couple of hard drives.

Does that give you more to go on?

I am thinking I probably need to replace the aio water cooler. Unless that seems like a crazy plan, can you recommend a good aio cooler that will improve on the current one? Looking at the case I think there is room to fit one with a couple of 140mm fans if that is a thing. Please note, I am not fussed about pretty lights etc ... I'd rather spend my money on better cooling. I probably have a budget of around £150 ... but could go a bit higher if that will bring a significant improvement in cooling.

Thanks,
John
 
It mite be crashing because the overclock has become unstable.

80 degrees shouldn't crash the computer

Have you gave your pc a good clean from dust ?

Replacing the thermal paste on your cpu cooler should improve temps.
 
As mickyflinn said, it shouldn't be crashing at 80c. I think we are thinking similar, that a good clean is first step. Then if still having problems possibly lower overclock or run stock settings and see if it's works better.
 
As far as cleaning goes. I do an external clean of the case and grills every week when cleaning the room. Internally gets cleaned about twice a year or on the rare occasions when I am fitting a new component (i.e. an extra 3 times over the last 5 years).

Perhaps I am guilty of watching too many youtube videos now that I am looking into this. I did hear something about how the coolant eventually evaporates/soaks into the tubing etc. reducing the efficiency of the cooler. Is it possible that this is an issue given the age of the system?

When you say that the overclock has become unstable is that a symptom of age of the components ... or something else. After 5 years of consistent use with no issues why would it become unstable now? I apologise for the noob questions.
 
Have you ever taken the fans off of radiator to see if there is any lint on radiator? Sometimes fins get plugged.

i7 4790K Tcase (max temp) according to Intel is 74c, and I assume that is accurate. Assuming it is, when you go above that temp CPU starts throttling so it doesn't burn up. So it's time figure out why it's running so hot and correct the problem, be it CPU running hotter because of age or because your cooler isn't working like it should.

Overclocked systems often start having problems much sooner than ones not overclocked. So there is a possibility you system is failing because of the overclock.
 
johnhaines said:
When you say that the overclock has become unstable is that a symptom of age of the components ... or something else. After 5 years of consistent use with no issues why would it become unstable now?
Click to expand...
There's some life span even for components which would seem to be non-wearing ones during normal operation like CPUs.
And overclocking easily eats into that.
If you crank up volts that lowers life span, especially if combined with notably higher temperatures.
It simply starts degrading everything inside CPU and in extreme cases even breaks down insulation leading to shorts.
(that's why Ryzens have higher volts during light/few core load, but voltage is lowered in heavy multi core load and rising temps)

Higher CPU power consumption also stresses motherboard's VRM (power circuitry) feeding CPU more and if pushed hard its life span can drop lot.

Also unless thoroughly stress tested originally, overclocking might have been only marginally stable and now with all around heavier load from newer games that can be the breaking point.
Some of the newer games are heavily multithreaded and can be very demanding for lowly 4 core/8 thread CPU.


Anyway those temperatures are certainly problem, even if there wasn't crashing.
 
Thanks again for all the replies.

I think I'll be saving for a new rig ... sometime next year.

In the meantime I need to keep this system going until I have saved the money. I think I will try a new cooling solution for the cpu and if that doesn't work I'll try to work out how to undo the overclock that overclockers pre-configured the system with.

I have been considering either a switch to air cooling with a Noctua NH-D15 Black or a swap of the current aio watercooler with a NZXT Kraken X53.

If I swap to air cooling I was planning to retain the two 120mm fans from the current radiator as exhausts. That would give me two 140mm fans on the front as intakes, one 140mm on the back, behind the cpu, as an exhaust and the two 120mm through the top as exhausts.

Any advice on which of those approaches sounds most sensible will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
If you go with a good air cooler like NH-D15 it will last basically forever. Only things that wear out are fans and fans last long time. That and maybe needing an updated CPU mount, and most companies give either free or low-cost mount upgrades when CPU mounts change. But do keep in mind you are looking at most expensive air cooler on the market.;) There are many that cools within a couple degrees or less, some cool even better for much less money. Probably the best value in top cooling is Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power, if you can find one. It's about have as much as D15 chromax. ;)

Get a AIO/CLC (almost all are CLCs) and you will likely have similar problem to what you have now in similar or less time.

Do keep in mind if you switch to air cooling you also need to address case airflow so case is flowing at least a little more cool air through it as component (CPU and GPU) coolers are using. If case does not the air inside of case gets heated up .. the harder system works the higher the air temp entering coolers will be .. and every degree higher the air temp entering becomes same degree hotter component is at same fan speeds.

Below is link to basic guide to how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow. If there is something else you want to know, please feel free to ask.
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...-i-put-my-temp-sensor.18564223/#post-26159770
 
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doyll said:
If you go with a good air cooler like NH-D15 it will last basically forever. Only things that wear out are fans and fans last long time. That and maybe needing an updated CPU mount, and most companies give either free or low-cost mount upgrades when CPU mounts change. But do keep in mind you are looking at most expensive air cooler on the market.;) There are many that cools within a couple degrees or less, some cool even better for much less money. Probably the best value in top cooling is Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power, if you can find one. It's about have as much as D15 chromax. ;)

Get a AIO/CLC (almost all are CLCs) and you will likely have similar problem to what you have now in similar or less time.

Do keep in mind if you switch to air cooling you also need to address case airflow so case is flowing at least a little more cool air through it as component (CPU and GPU) coolers are using. If case does not the air inside of case gets heated up .. the harder system works the higher the air temp entering coolers will be .. and every degree higher the air temp entering becomes same degree hotter component is at same fan speeds.

Below is link to basic guide to how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow. If there is something else you want to know, please feel free to ask.
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...-i-put-my-temp-sensor.18564223/#post-26159770
Click to expand...

+1

When you get air cooling right, it's quiet and as effective as 240mm and some 280mm AIO coolers.
 
Hi Ross. I have no idea is the simple answer. Part of the reason I bought a pre-overclocked system from overclockers was that I didn’t want to get too far into the detail and leave it to someone who knew what they were doing. I have a Noctua NH-D15 black turning up tomorrow. I am going to strip down the pc and give it a thorough clean when I install it. I’ll reply back after I have done that with the result.
 
I would have set everything back to default that would have given a clear indication if the overclock was unstable.

But it's not that easy if you don't know your way around the bios .

Overclockers would have saved the overclock profile in the bios so it's a case of loading that profile back.
 
If you are feeling brave, you could also delid the CPU as after this length of time the thermal paste will have turned to concrete and not be very heat transfery.
 
drakulton said:
If you are feeling brave, you could also delid the CPU as after this length of time the thermal paste will have turned to concrete and not be very heat transfery.
Click to expand...
I wonder, does an old CPU with hardened paste have a greater chance of being damaged when delidding than a new CPU? I know old / hard paste between IHS & cooler makes is more likey to damage CPU when removing cooler.
 
doyll said:
I wonder, does an old CPU with hardened paste have a greater chance of being damaged when delidding than a new CPU? I know old / hard paste between IHS & cooler makes is more likey to damage CPU when removing cooler.
Click to expand...

If you are careful, and use the correct tool for the job there's very little risk of damage. ( Brian from Tech Yes City did it with a chisel and vice, :eek: not recommended, as the CPU went flying)

Yeah, I've tried to remove coolers from old AMD chips and it yanked it out of the socket.
 
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doyll said:
I wonder, does an old CPU with hardened paste have a greater chance of being damaged when delidding than a new CPU? I know old / hard paste between IHS & cooler makes is more likey to damage CPU when removing cooler.
Click to expand...
Turn on your pc and run it for 5 minutes this will heat the old thermal paste .

Don't pull the cooler straight up give it a gentle twist first.
 
Hi everyone.

First, I would like to thank you all for the suggestions and links. I have learnt a lot over the last week.

My Noctua NH-D15 Black turned up this morning. Man that thing is massive!

I removed the aio watercooler. With it removed I can now see the label that identifies it as an Asetek 570LXL. There were two 120mm fans between it and the top grill of the case set to draw air into the case from above and through the radiator. I have kept the fans and reversed them so that they now exhaust out of the top of the case.

The NH-D15 was fairly straightforward to install. I have set its two fans to draw air from the front of the case towards the rear case exhaust fan which is a 140mm corsair (didn't check the model). There are two corsair 140mm intake fans at the front of the case. Unfortunately they draw air through the drive bays into the case. That is how it has always been so I will be leaving it like that for now.

Anyway, the net result is that the cpu is now running between 35 and 40 degrees when using standard work apps ... code editors, web browsers etc. Running Horizon Zero Dawn I have finally got past the interminable "Optimising the graphics for your system" section to the main menu. Prior to replacing the cooler I had never got beyond about 30% with cpu temps running at around 78 to 80 degrees before a BSOD would occur. This time the temps peaked at 65 degrees before dropping back down to 40 to 45 on reaching the main menu. I will be trying MS Flight Simulator 2020 tonight and, fingers crossed, not hit any temperature issues.

So, net result appears to be that I am now running at 15 to 20 degrees cooler across the board.

Also, I am not noticing the system to be any louder than it was before the replacement ... so another good result.

Again, thank you all for your help.
 
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