Help, New Sound Setup for Computer

mysticsniper

mysticsniper

mysticsniper

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So I need a fair bit of help with some choices for my new sound system. I have around £500 to spend.

I use my computer for gaming and listening to music, about 65% of the time is spent using my Superlux cans.

My current setup is
Using the on-board sound Realtek ALC1150
1x optical cable from computer to AV Receiver (an old Pioneer VSX-C100)
5x Gale Movie Star Speakers
1x Superlux HD668 cans

So I am thinking my options are

Creative SB Z Sound card
New AV receiver
Possibly New Speakers
Sennheiser or AKG cans

Or just keep the AV receiver and speakers and buy....

Asus Xonar Essence STX II
Sennheiser or AKG cans

Could there be a 3rd choice setup I have not thought about.
 
I think if for music using your cans is the primary choice,

3rd option:
rather than a sound card or AV receiver, most people would probably recommend getting an external DAC and a good headphone amp.
 
I'd focus one or the other. Much better to buy a better speaker or headphone setup, rather than trying to do both with £500 and end up not getting much of improvement in both areas.
 
mysticsniper said:
What would be a good choice for the DAC and amp?
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Not my area of expertise, but I'm sure Marsman and others would be able to help, once you have decided which area (speakers or headphone) you want to focus on improving first, people should be able to give you pointers on which products you should be looking at.
 
Marine-RX179 said:
Not my area of expertise, but I'm sure Marsman and others would be able to help, once you have decided which area (speakers or headphone) you want to focus on improving first, people should be able to give you pointers on which products you should be looking at.
Click to expand...

I am open to the your third option and want to explore it more before deciding on which route to take. :)
 
mysticsniper said:
I am open to the your third option and want to explore it more before deciding on which route to take. :)
Click to expand...
Actually I agree with Marsman's comment. That 3rd option I commented was based on the recommendation I saw people here regularly gave for headphone setup.

I guess may be I could help rephase your enquiry for others to be easier to give suggestion:
"With around £500 budget, what decent audio setup I could get for a) headphone OR b) speakers?"

But I think realistically, it might worth you thinking about would you spend more time listen to your speakers or your headphone for your usage.
 
Right, prepare for a long post!


I think a headphone setup might be the better choice if you use your current headphones more. For music, it's certainly a much better choice than 5.1 speakers.


If you do choose to upgrade your 5.1 system, get a decent AV receiver first. Gale make some decent speakers, so I'm not sure spending £300 on a 5.1 speaker package would be a decent improvement. Spend in the region of £200 on a receiver, then save up some more money for a speaker package really worth buying.

I don't really see the point in spending roughly £300 on a speaker package that may not be a noticeable improvement over the Gales. Anything that isn't a decent improvement, will more than likely only make you want to upgrade again, sooner. That would be a waste of money really, much better to spend the extra and get a really good improvement. Monitor Audio MR1 will certainly be a noticeable improvement.

Another way you could do it, would be to buy a receiver, then replace the Gale's steadily, so to speak. Buy front speakers and matching centre together with a receiver, then replace the subwoofer, and finally the rears at later dates when funds allow.

Front and centre speakers need to be from the same range really, so you get balanced sound. Monitor Audio MR1 and Monitor Audio MR centre along with a receiver of choice will come to around £400.



If you'd rather go for a headphone setup, then external DAC and amp is the way to go as you have the funds for a quality setup.

Xonar Essence and Soundblaster ZxR are great sound cards, but sound cards can only be as good as the system they sit in. They can be plagued by software and EMI (electromagnetic interference) issues. These problems may not be that common in comparison to those who have no problem at all, but they do exist and have frustrated a fair few people.

For anyone wanting to achieve the best sound quality they can, choosing to place a £150-£200 audio product in a PC where it could be affected by these issues does not make any sense to me. Far better to get an external solution where it will be free of any possible driver/software issues and away from EMI.

Schiit Modi 2 DAC and Magni 2 headphone amp, around £200 for the both; or a Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus, for a combined DAC/amp unit. That leaves £300 for headphone of choice, to create a very nice setup.
 
As above really, beacuse with only £500 to spend you have to choose between the AV side and headphones. As you say you spend 65% of your listening time using headphones then that's the route to take.

Next, as a gamer you have to decide on the importance of positional audio because a USB DAC and headphone amp won't have any, you'll get pure, clean stereo. If it has no importance or you will be satisfied with using Razer's software solution then Marsman's suggestion is the way to go.

If it is important then a solution would be to get both an external DAC and a sound card...

Philips Fidelio X2 headphones (£225)
Great all rounder which is just as at home with music as it is with gaming.

Asus Xonar U7 (£70)
An external USB sound card that avoids all of the pitfalls that Marsman mentions but provides positional audio through headphones for gaming and 5.1/7.1 for your receiver through either analogue cables or digital SPDIF optical/co-ax.

Schiit Modi 2 (£80)
External DAC which will provide excellent sound quality for music.

Schiit Magni 2 (£80)
Punchy little headphone amp that will give most headphones the breathing space they need.

Total: £455

Switching between the gaming/movies and music systems is just a matter of selecting the relevant item from the Playback Device menu (right click the speaker icon in the bottom right).

If you do go for the Philips Fidelio X2, I would just get the Asus U7 to start with because the X2 doesn't need much amping, so you might be happy with the U7 on it's own.
 
Surely there is no point in buying an external sound as well for gaming. That does make sense with a USB only DAC, but as the Modi 2 and DacMagic Plus, both have optical input, either can be connected to a sound card. DGX would be a good cheap option to pass on effects to the DAC.
 
Modi 2 is USB or Optical, two different units unless you get the Modi 2 Uber which isn't available in the UK yet.

As you made a big thing about having sound cards inside the PC enclosure I thought having ALL sound equipment outside the case was a good idea.
 
Actually, is the SPDIF version available in the UK? Can only see the USB version on Emod. Disappointing if it isn't.

As you made a big thing about having sound cards inside the PC enclosure I thought having ALL sound equipment outside the case was a good idea.
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A big thing!

I suppose it was really. Maybe I'm too much against these high end sound cards now. When you've had one or more problems with sound cards, it does change your view.
 
The Modi 2 Optical is on the same page as the USB version but they're out of stock on both anyway. I imagine Schiit are having a hard time keeping up with demand at the moment, specially with the Christmas holiday to slow things down.

As for the big thing, sorry about that, I didn't mean to sound arsey. :D
 
Question:

If the OP bought a Xonar DGX and a DACMagic Plus, how would it be connected up so that positional audio was available for both headphones and speakers?

Plugging them directly into the DGX is not going to be optimal and neither is plugging them into the AV receiver, as sound quality will suffer in both cases and if the optical goes to the DM+ the output will end up as stereo, losing all of the positional audio cues.

Colour me confused :D
 
It's a good question, and one that I didn't think about until now. I'm sitting here trying to think of solutions to that, and whilst I do have ideas what the OP could do, it's not particularly fair to be debating without the OP's input really.

I think throwing more ideas and combinations around is only going to make deciding which direction to go, more complicated. I think the OP has plenty to think about so far, and if he does decide to go down the headphone route, maybe we can discuss how he can get the best from his current speaker system as well, if he also uses that for gaming.
 
Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, I tried playing the following waveform through both the Modi and my STX in order to listen for interference.

http://www.audiocheck.net/Audio/audiocheck.net_headphoneshaker.mp3

The STX was absolutely clean with just the waveform audible while I could hear digital noise through the Modi at both the beginning and end of the sequence. So the external USB DAC has audible EMI while the internal (albeit well shielded) sound card was clean as a whistle.

I'd say it's the main reason they have brought the Uber Modi out, because it has it's own power supply and is probably isolating the unit from the USB power. Come to think of it, that's what the Schiit Wyrd does, it's basically just a powered USB hub but I'm a bit loath to spend as much on a power supply as on the DAC itself. :D
 
Cheers for all the replies.

So while I am spending about 65% of the time using my cans. Most of my time is spent gaming and the rest is playing music while browsing and a bit of Photoshop etc...

So in a nutshell gaming first, music second ;)

I wanted to share my PC spec, just in case they might make any difference

Intel Core i7-4790K
Corsair Hydro H105
Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming 7
Kingston HyperX 8GB
Samsung 250GB SSD 840 EVO
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 G1
EVGA SuperNova G2 850W PSU
Corsair Carbide 540 High Airflow ATX Cube Case

So the expensive sound card is out, but do I still need something better than the on-board I am using now that I would connect to the DAC?
 
rids57 said:
Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, I tried playing the following waveform through both the Modi and my STX in order to listen for interference.

http://www.audiocheck.net/Audio/audiocheck.net_headphoneshaker.mp3

The STX was absolutely clean with just the waveform audible while I could hear digital noise through the Modi at both the beginning and end of the sequence. So the external USB DAC has audible EMI while the internal (albeit well shielded) sound card was clean as a whistle.

I'd say it's the main reason they have brought the Uber Modi out, because it has it's own power supply and is probably isolating the unit from the USB power. Come to think of it, that's what the Schiit Wyrd does, it's basically just a powered USB hub but I'm a bit loath to spend as much on a power supply as on the DAC itself. :D
Click to expand...

An interesting find, rids.

Can I ask why you didn't go for the SPDIF version?



So the expensive sound card is out, but do I still need something better than the on-board I am using now that I would connect to the DAC?
Click to expand...

Yes and no, depending on one's uses.

From a music and sound quality point of view, no. A DAC converts digital data into analogue. Sound quality of the onboard audio or sound card is irrelevant because no sound is coming from it. The DAC is converting the digital into sound.

From a gaming point of view, probably yes, at least if you want to access surround sound and gaming effects using headphones. Buying an expensive card to connect a DAC to is a waste of money. All you need the sound card to do is act as a digital transport for the gaming effects. A Xonar DGX has the same gaming effects capabilities as an Essence.
 
Marsman said:
Yes and no, depending on one's uses.

From a music and sound quality point of view, no. A DAC converts digital data into analogue. Sound quality of the onboard audio or sound card is irrelevant because no sound is coming from it. The DAC is converting the digital into sound.

From a gaming point of view, probably yes, at least if you want to access surround sound and gaming effects using headphones. Buying an expensive card to connect a DAC to is a waste of money. All you need the sound card to do is act as a digital transport for the gaming effects. A Xonar DGX has the same gaming effects capabilities as an Essence.
Click to expand...


Well gaming is the priority and I could buy the sound card without touching my budget for the rest as long as the sound card is around £100
 
If you're considering £100 on a sound card, then why not spend the extra and get an Essence STX?

I know that's what I have been saying not to do, but I might have been a bit too vocal against high end sound cards. They are very good, it's just a couple of past experiences have altered my thinking toward spending £150 on a sound card. With a decent budget, I feel that an external solution is a better choice.

For me personally, with a decent budget, I'd go for a DGX then connect a DAC to that. You get the benefit of a gaming sound card, plus a good quality external DAC and amp.

If you are thinking of spending £100 on a sound card, then you're already 2/3 of the way to getting an STX. For you, it might be the better choice, as it would certainly solve the problem to this question asked by rids:

"If the OP bought a Xonar DGX and a DACMagic Plus, how would it be connected up so that positional audio was available for both headphones and speakers?"

Rather than trying to connect both DAC and AV receiver via optical to a cheaper sound card, if you get an STX, then you can connect the AV receiver via optical and use headphones from the sound card.
 
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