Help out a complete novice

anksta · 21 Nov 2009 at 19:22

Hi, I got a 350D last weekend (from Phate) and have been toying with it for the past week. I've read at least 10 tutorials, beginner's guides, chapters from books etc. and I have to say I'm still struggling.

Anyway, I know there is no golden answer and given its an art, asking for help is like asking how to draw a circle, or sing an E, you just have to practice etc.

So I've been trying to just teach myself which, given I can play instruments I'm sure will pay off in the end but in the meantime I've been trying to take some HDR pictures.

I know it normally enhances brick work etc. but I have this really old piano:

that I think will look good if I make it an HDR, I've tried using guides to make HDR pictures, of this and just of my room etc. for practise.

I put it on f/10, ISO1600 for a 3rd of a second which, aside from the ISO are all arbitrary decisions, and the only reason ISO isn't is because I left that on by accident from taking a couple of pictures in the dark before.

Then on the AEB I tried it on 3 different ranges, from -2 to like -2/3.

All the attempts came out really saturated and horrible, you couldn't see any of the detail in the wood etc. I used Photomatix

This is my problem, I don't know how to decide what settings to use at all, whether its metered right (or how to actually do that properly).

I know people will most likely just post links to tutorials and guides etc. which I will read if they do, but just for the sake of this one picture, could someone please just tell me what settings I should use to get a reasonable HDR photo from this please?

I've attached a pic of the piano, there is one light in the ceiling about 3 foot in front of the piano (uplighter) and the room is about 8 foot long.

I just need a benchmark, not just for this but for most things, and if I have one for something like this, at least I can build on that just until I can do it for myself.

Thanks

Kenai · 21 Nov 2009 at 19:35

Well the settings of the photo itself are largely irrelevent, just as long as you have a 'correct' exposure and then a pair of photos one or two stops either side you're fine.

The problem will come with Tone Mapping your HDR in Photomatix I expect, as that can be incredibly confusing and the sliders can seem almost random in effect when you first start using it.

One thing though, HDR often introduces noise, so having ISO1600 (intentional or not) isn't a good start.

Ideally, low F number, low ISO, shutter to give appropriate exposure (probably quite slow so on a tripod, thats fairly essential for HDR anyway to ensure they line up) and using 2 stop bracketing (which I assume you've figured out) to get your starter images.

The photomatix part is gonna be trial and error but make the HDR and then make sure you select tone mapping else it'll look weird, then just play with the sliders and try and contain your excitement and not go overboard

the shadow · 21 Nov 2009 at 19:39

http://www.backingwinds.blogspot.com/2006/10/how-to-create-professional-hdr-images.html

anksta · 21 Nov 2009 at 20:37

Kenai said:
Well the settings of the photo itself are largely irrelevent, just as long as you have a 'correct' exposure and then a pair of photos one or two stops either side you're fine.

The problem will come with Tone Mapping your HDR in Photomatix I expect, as that can be incredibly confusing and the sliders can seem almost random in effect when you first start using it.

One thing though, HDR often introduces noise, so having ISO1600 (intentional or not) isn't a good start.

Ideally, low F number, low ISO, shutter to give appropriate exposure (probably quite slow so on a tripod, thats fairly essential for HDR anyway to ensure they line up) and using 2 stop bracketing (which I assume you've figured out) to get your starter images.

The photomatix part is gonna be trial and error but make the HDR and then make sure you select tone mapping else it'll look weird, then just play with the sliders and try and contain your excitement and not go overboard

Cheers mate that is exactly how it feels so far, is the piano a good thing to even try HDR with or will I not see that much difference? On the ones I did of my room, there was a light at the top but at the bottom was a brown beanbag and did look pretty good so will it look alright on most things?

I know how to change the f number (thats aperture innit?), and the ISO, but I dont know how to change the shutter when you're controlling the Aperture and ISO. If you have it in Aperture priority, that changes the ISO and shutter automatically doesnt it?

So if I put it in full manual mode, then change the iso, it only lets me change the shutter speed and the Aperture doesn't seem to change at all, I feel like I'm just missing a button or something here that'll let me change it.

Thanks for your help though mate and I'll read that post in a bit shadow.

Kenai · 22 Nov 2009 at 02:18

I'd personally use aperture mode, turn off Auto ISO if its on and then let the camera pick the shutter speed.

anksta · 22 Nov 2009 at 20:04

Arite I sacked off the piano idea because it was goin nowhere, might have another go later but for now I took my camera out before and took some photos, it was freezin and really windy, I only have some 10er tripod from tesco my mate gave me and all so I was making lemonade.

On a side note I took some pictures of some horses, only one turned out alright (i.e. in focus) but it just looks really plain, what can I do with it to make it look alright?

Anyway, I live like just on the cusp of the country side and there is this ridiculously old beaten down barn that I know if I had a little bit of know how you could make a mint picture so I had a go at making a HDR, I took them at f/20 ISO 100 1/3s and 33mm, which I think 2 stops either side.

This is the original:

and following the tutorial shadow posted, baring in mind that I haven't a clue what the curves and things do (reading about them now), this is what I ended up with:

that was my second attempt at it as my photoshop crashed first go as I was smudgin the edges, couldn't be bothered doin that this time as I thought it'd crash again and I'm sure there's an easier way of doin that (anyone?).

Anyway, I know it's not that good, you can see shadowy outlines in places and white outlines etc but I thought I'd ask people's opinions anyway, see what you had to say about it, any critique/advice welcomed.

Cheers

russ0r · 22 Nov 2009 at 20:17

anksta said:
So if I put it in full manual mode, then change the iso, it only lets me change the shutter speed and the Aperture doesn't seem to change at all, I feel like I'm just missing a button or something here that'll let me change it.

In manual mode, hold the Av button (circled below) and turn the wheel at the front to change the aperture.

Also, read the manual

anksta · 22 Nov 2009 at 20:25

russ0r said:
In manual mode, hold the Av button (circled below) and turn the wheel at the front to change the aperture.

Also, read the manual

yeah I got there now cheers mate, am reading the manual as well, about 90 pages in, only another 160 left

EDIT: what you think of my pics mate?

Derek W · 22 Nov 2009 at 22:17

anksta said:
it was freezin and really windy, I only have some 10er tripod from tesco my mate gave me and all so I was making lemonade.

Anyway, I live like just on the cusp of the country side and there is this ridiculously old beaten down barn that I know if I had a little bit of know how you could make a mint picture so I had a go at making a HDR, I took them at f/20 ISO 100 1/3s and 33mm, which I think 2 stops either side.

snip

that was my second attempt at it as my photoshop crashed first go as I was smudgin the edges, couldn't be bothered doin that this time as I thought it'd crash again and I'm sure there's an easier way of doin that (anyone?).

Anyway, I know it's not that good, you can see shadowy outlines in places and white outlines etc but I thought I'd ask people's opinions anyway, see what you had to say about it, any critique/advice welcomed.

Cheers

Getting a good tripod will help or just go out when its not so windy cos thats why there is a bit of blurring up at roof of the barn.

Personally I use Photomatix over photoshop for HDR images. The haloing can be rectified by adjusting the sliders though so don't really see that as an issue its just a matter of experimenting with the settings.

This is the tutorial that I followed

http://www.vanilladays.com/hdr-guide/

anksta · 22 Nov 2009 at 23:04

2nd attempt on some pictures I actually took first, there's this dilapadated old church building that even though I had walked past there tons of times I never noticed it:

Original:

HDR:

Have to admit though I just put these in Photomatix and didn't really do anything with them, but I like it anyway.

What you thinkin?

john_s · 23 Nov 2009 at 09:36

anksta said:
What you thinkin?

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'd concentrate on learning to use the camera before you start trying to do HDR images. One step at a time... a walk before you can run kind of thing, if you will.

Personnaly, I think 99% of HDR images look a complete pile of pants. There's a lot of HDR stuff turned out for the sake of it; don't feel you need to do it "just because".

Phoen1x · 23 Nov 2009 at 09:59

Personnaly, I think 99% of HDR images look a complete pile of pants. There's a lot of HDR stuff turned out for the sake of it; don't feel you need to do it "just because".

+1 - it is very much the 'in thing'. I would rather see a wonderfully executed photo straight from the camera than a blatant HDR most of the time. It's a great hobby, one that combines technical expertise and artistic flair, so spend the time developing (pun...) these and then play with HDR if you want

anksta · 23 Nov 2009 at 11:32

yeah I thought that, me and my mate have both just got cameras, he only bought one because I'd had mine 10 minutes and had a play with it and decided he was gettin one instead of the PS3 he was saving for.

Anyway, we were saying last night that it would be well easy to start thinkin every picture would look better in HDR and just doing that all the time.

I've read a lot of guides about composing pictures, the thirds rule and how to expose properly (which is a learning curve) but I haven't seen much about post processing pictures.

In tutorials for other things they seem to give the impression there is like a checklist of 5 or so things they do to pictures to make them look good. When I took my camera out yesterday I took a couple of pictures of some horses, one turned out ok-ish, and by that I mean in focus with nice grass and ok sky but it just looks like a point and shoot picture.

Anyone got any simple processing tutorials they know are good?

Cheers

the shadow · 23 Nov 2009 at 12:54

http://digital-photography-school.com/ :cool: