• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

help please

Werehamster

Werehamster

Werehamster

Associate
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Posts
8
Hello there!
I have an old graphic card I want to upgrade:

nvidia Geforce 8800 GTX

Ideally I would like to buy:

EVGA GeForce GTX 295 Co-Op Superclocked 1792MB GDDR3 PCI-Express Graphics Card (Single PCB)

or a

XFX ATI Radeon HD 5870 XXX 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card


However, when I contacted the sales support of overclockers u.k. they warned me saying that the new graphic card would be 2 inches longer. D'oh!!! My question is:

How do I get the dimensions of the new grapic cards ?? I tried to look around but I did not find anything.

Also, what if it is really longer than my previous graphic card? Should I give up upgrading my pc just because of the dimensions of the new GPU?? I am not really expert and I do not know if I can slide my motherboard or drill a hole in my case!!! Sadness!!!

Is there any graphic card which I can fit and would give a good improvement in performances?


I'll paste my pc description in case it is useful:

1] Aurora™ 7500
Chassis: Alienware® P2 Chassis - Space Black
Chassis Upgrades: Alienware® AlienIce™ 3.0 Video Cooling - Lunar White
Power Supply: 700 Watt Alienware® Approved Multi-GPU Power Supply
Motherboard: Alienware® Approved NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI Motherboard
Processor: AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 4600+ Processor with HyperTransport and Dual Core Technology
Memory: 4GB Low Latency DDR2 Performance SDRAM at 800MHz
Video Card: 768MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8800 GTX
System Drive: Single Drive Configuration - 250 GB Serial ATA 3 Gbit/s, 7,200 RPM with 8MB Cache
Optical Drive One: 18x Dual Layer DVD±R/W Drive
Sound Card: High-Definition 7.1 Performance Audio - Standard
Network Card: Integrated High Performance Gigabit Ethernet Adapter (DSL-ready)
Removable Storage: Alienware® 28-in-1 Digital Media Reader / Writer

The Motherboard is a Foxconn and I think that the number is foxconn n15235 and I can give you more info about it, just pasting the Everest report:

[ PCI Express 1.0 x16: EVGA e-GeForce 8800 GTX ]



Graphics Processor Properties:

Video Adapter EVGA e-GeForce 8800 GTX

BIOS Version 60.80.0A.00.01

GPU Code Name G80GTX

PCI Device 10DE-0191 / 3842-C831 (Rev A2)

Transistors 681 million

Process Technology 90 nm

Die Size 484 mm2

Bus Type PCI Express 1.0 x16 @ x16

Memory Size 768 MB

GPU Clock (Geometric Domain) 576 MHz (original: 576 MHz)

GPU Clock (Shader Domain) 1350 MHz (original: 1350 MHz)

RAMDAC Clock 400 MHz

Pixel Pipelines 24

TMU Per Pipeline 1

Unified Shaders 128 (v4.0)

DirectX Hardware Support DirectX v10

Pixel Fillrate 13824 MPixel/s

Texel Fillrate [ TRIAL VERSION ]

Motherboard:

CPU Type DualCore AMD Athlon 64 X2, 2400 MHz (12 x 200) 4600+

Motherboard Name Alienware nForce 590 SLI Motherboard

Motherboard Chipset nVIDIA nForce 590 SLI, AMD Hammer

System Memory [ TRIAL VERSION ]

BIOS Type Award (02/08/07)
--------[ Motherboard ]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Motherboard Properties:

Motherboard ID 02/08/2007-alienware-6A61HP22C-00

Motherboard Name Alienware nForce 590 SLI Motherboard



Front Side Bus Properties:

Bus Type AMD Hammer

Real Clock 200 MHz

Effective Clock 200 MHz

HyperTransport Clock [ TRIAL VERSION ]



Memory Bus Properties:

Bus Type Dual DDR2 SDRAM

Bus Width 128-bit

DRAM:FSB Ratio CPU/5

Real Clock 362 MHz (DDR)

Effective Clock 723 MHz

Bandwidth [ TRIAL VERSION ] MB/s


Any suggestion will be welcome. :D the sales support of overclockers was fast in replying, but really really really short on suggestions. Bare in mind that this is the 3rd time I contact them and the best I got was the statement " Ur old graphic card would be 2 inches shorter". :confused:

Cheers guys!!!
 
To be honest, I think 5870 would probably get bottlenecked by your system...I suspect your CPU will not be able to keep up with it. 8800GTX is one of the best card ever made and is more than capable of playing most moden games at high settings (except odd ones that are super demanding such as Crysis) even today.

I think you are in need of upgrading to a newer/faster CPU (might require changing/upgrading motherboard) more than upgrading your graphic card.
 
As mentioned above, your current pc will cripple the graphics cards you want to get.

Either upgrade your entire pc or get a lower spec graphics card.
 
Thanks a lot guys!! This is a great advice

I see, that was also my worry :(. Too bad.

Upgrading the whole pc is hard :'( . I should buy new motherboard / CPU/ graphic card and that would be far too expensive. Not excluding the problems I'd face to fit it in my case :P. However, I will consider it.

I am having some problems with the latest generation of games, such as Global Agenda. This is the main reason why I would like to upgrade the graphic card.

On the other hand, my motherboard does support a double GPU. Do you think it would be worth to buy another 8800 GTx? If so, I am not quite sure if they stll sell it, and how much would it be the gain in performances.

Cheers!!!
 
Your motherboard will probably take a AMD Phenom II, more than likely you could run a Tri core or maybe even a Quad core with a BIOS update. A Phenom and a 5850 would get you a lot of extra milage out of your system.

What is the exact motherboard you have ?
 
deifinately upgrade your processor first, you will notice a big difference, even with your 8800gtx. I also love these cards, got one donated to me a bit ago and popped it in the wifes pc wit ha 3ghz e8200, awsome card still lol :)

a phenom II would indeed be a great upgrade for yours if it will fit in, although i would definately upgrade that board to a newer 790gx or a 790fx that supports DDR2, this way you'll get a futureproof upgrade path and you can use your existing ddr2 ram etc.


edit: and i say no to the red on blue writing! its sending my eyes nuts! argh!
 
Well, I opened the case and it says Foxconn n15235.
There was a time when I thought that NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI was enough to define it :P. That time sadly ended.

I am not quite sure about how to get further information, but a part of the model, serial number and brand I did run a everest test and it came out with:

--------[ Motherboard ]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Motherboard Properties:

Motherboard ID 02/08/2007-alienware-6A61HP22C-00

Motherboard Name Alienware nForce 590 SLI Motherboard



Front Side Bus Properties:

Bus Type AMD Hammer

Real Clock 200 MHz

Effective Clock 200 MHz

HyperTransport Clock [ TRIAL VERSION ]



Memory Bus Properties:

Bus Type Dual DDR2 SDRAM

Bus Width 128-bit

DRAM:FSB Ratio CPU/5

Real Clock 362 MHz (DDR)

Effective Clock 723 MHz

Bandwidth [ TRIAL VERSION ] MB/s


Which probably it is not enough.

I tried to google it, but I had no luck, and I did not find any useful information.

Again, thanks a lot for the reply, and I a open to any suggestion.

How do I know if I can fit a better CPU in my motherboard?

Cheeers!
 
SLI a pair of 8800GTX will also get bottlenecked by your slow CPU.

To be honest, your overall systems seem fine...all but except your CPU. Your motherboard however I suspect to be a AM2 or AM2+ board (considering you got a AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 4600+), so it might not be compatible with the new AMD CPUs (AM3).

Back then during the prime time of the 8800 series, I upgraded to a 8800GTS 320MB, however the frame rate was still quite low. I then bought a new motherboard and Q6600, frame rate became faster by miles.

I think you should make another topic ('help please' is not really much of a attention grabber for a title) with the title 'Upgrade- need suggestions' to get more people's advise (and remember to stat your budget).

I don't know if you know how to build PCsystem or overclocking, but if I was in your shoes and with a tight upgrade budget, I would grab:
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-G31M-ES2L (around £35)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-221-GI&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=1490
CPU: Intel E5300 (around £55)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-273-IN&groupid=701&catid=6&subcat=
CPU heatsink/cooler: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev 2 CPU Cooler (around £19)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-035-AR&tool=3

And then overclock the CPU from the stock speed of 2.60GHz to 3.6-3.8GHz.

But do note that there's not much future upgrade headroom going for this build, since the market is already starting to move on from Core 2 toward i3/i5/i7.

Also, nforce chipset motherboards tends to be worser overclocker comparing to Intel chipset motherboards when overcloking Intel CPUs, so unless you are certain or you think you would require SLI or Crossfire, always get the appropriate chipset to pair up with the CPU. You can see the spec of my PC in my signature...my motherboard is a nforce chipset board too and becaise that, I can't overclock my Q6600 to more than 3.25GHz stable. If I got a decent Intel chipset motherboard instead, I would probably be able to overclock it to 3.6Ghz.

I am not a 100% sure AMD Phenom II CPU will not fit onto your existing mothorboard. If they would, then you can solve you problem by simply upgrading to a faster CPU.
 
Last edited:
Hello there!!! I did contact the guys at alienware. They basically ignored me. My warranty is expired and I don't think they care anymore. I sent 2 e-mails and I called them but they ignored the mails and they put me in a phone queue for over 30 mins :(.

Hey marine!!! The upgrade you are proposing is something I can afford... however when I think about spending over 100£, I always think about how long would it last. On my side I am keen into spending anything between 300 and 500 £ ... but from my really ignorant point of view (:D when it comes to hardware I hardly know anything)I dunno if it is worth to go from AMD dual core to an intel dual core. (please forgive me if the doubt is too silly^^)

Also, If I buy a Quad, I am afraid it will be obsolete within one year^^. Going for better with that budget will be possible... but I will have to save on the graphic card :P which is not a good thing.

In any case, your advices are great... and maybe you could suggest me your choice for a 300£-500£ upgrade on that system.

Thanks a lot!!!


I think I'll post the threat with a different title, writing down the budget.
 
Last edited:
Its probably a pre dell Alienware system, so I would think you have the Asus SLI board.

Have a look in the case and see if the model is printed on the board itself, and have a look if Alienware have a BIOS update.
 
Werehamster said:
Hello there!!! I did contact the guys at alienware. They basically ignored me. My warranty is expired and I don't think they care anymore. I sent 2 e-mails and I called them but they ignored the mails and they put me in a phone queue for over 30 mins :(.

Hey marine!!! The upgrade you are proposing is something I can afford... however when I think about spending over 100£, I always think about how long would it last. On my side I am keen into spending anything between 300 and 500 £ ... but from my really ignorant point of view (:D when it comes to hardware I hardly know anything)I dunno if it is worth to go from AMD dual core to an intel dual core. (please forgive me if the doubt is too silly^^)

Also, If I buy a Quad, I am afraid it will be obsolete within one year^^. Going for better with that budget will be possible... but I will have to save on the graphic card :P which is not a good thing.

In any case, your advices are great... and maybe you could suggest me your choice for a 300£-500£ upgrade on that system.

Thanks a lot!!!


I think I'll post the threat with a different title, writing down the budget.
Click to expand...

Just get a 5850 and see how you get on.
As your not dealing with SLI/Xfire unlike the 295GTX. I doubt your CPU will be that much of a bottleneck at all. In general dual core CPU's are fine for gaming as not many games or apps even take advantage of Quads.

Worst case is the 5850 won't run quite as fast as on an i7 920 @4.2ghz but will still run allot faster than your 8800GTX
If you do it this way you stand to potentially save allot of cash from a needless upgrade, and may last you until the next Gen CPU's (Bulldozer) are released, which would be the time for a major upgrade.

And if it turns out you think you need to upgrade your system you can use the £300 left over to get a new Phonom 2 CPU, Mobo, Ram but I think this is very unlikely.
 
Last edited:
rhys216 said:
In general dual core CPU's are fine for gaming as not many games or apps even take advantage of Quads.
Click to expand...
Modern dual-core yes, but not sluggish dual-core's that few generations old-especially when it ain't even the top range of that generation (such as the Athlon 64 X2 6000+), run hot and can't overclock much. I'm not saying upgrading to 5850 is a bad idea, but if you look at his current rig, you would realise that his CPU is more in need of an upgrade...more so than changing a perfectly capable graphic card to something else.

8800GTX aged really well and is still perform admirabaly today capable of play most modern game in high settings (except one or two odd ones like the super high demanding Crysis) when paired up with a decent CPU. In fact, the GPU design of 8800GTX is so good, that nvidia recycled, revised rebranded it so many times, all the way from 8800GTX to 9800GTX, then 9800GTX to 9800GTX+, and from 9800GTX+ to the current GTS250.

Werehamster said:
In any case, your advices are great... and maybe you could suggest me your choice for a 300£-500£ upgrade on that system.
Click to expand...
I will have look around do some calculating and try to get back to you with some recommendations.

Edit: Werehamster. I forgot to ask you...do you know how to build a PC system or have friend that can do it for you? Also, are you familiar with overclocking CPU?
 
Last edited:
Marine-RX179 said:
Modern dual-core yes, but not sluggish dual-core's that few generations old-especially when it ain't even the top range of that generation (such as the Athlon 64 X2 6000+), run hot and can't overclock much. I'm not saying upgrading to 5850 is a bad idea, but if you look at his current rig, you would realise that his CPU is more in need of an upgrade...more so than changing a perfectly capable graphic card to something else.

8800GTX aged really well and is still perform admirabaly today capable of play most modern game in high settings (except one or two odd ones like the super high demanding Crysis) when paired up with a decent CPU. In fact, the GPU design of 8800GTX is so good, that nvidia recycled, revised rebranded it so many times, all the way from 8800GTX to 9800GTX, then 9800GTX to 9800GTX+, and from 9800GTX+ to the current GTS250.
Click to expand...

I think your over hyping the 8800GTX, Yes I had one, yes they were good back in their day, but they are pretty slow now at high res gaming (>1920*1080) with high details and AA etc.
The only reason Nvidia recycled it is because it was all they had to offer as GT200 didn't scale down, not because it was the second coming of the GPU messiah.
Bottom line it should have been laid to rest yonks ago.

Op just get the 5850 and see how it does, because bottleneck or no bottleneck it's going to run allot faster than your 8800 and even if you upgrade your system this is the card to get.
 
yes but that cpu is a great all singing all dancing modern quad core, going from 2.66ghz to 3.8ghz is always going to be useless. this chaps processor is much older and slower, you would see massive gains from a new chip.

for instance. my wifes pc had a 3.4ghz P4 with HT, i popped in a 8800gtx, played crap. put a modern core2duo e8200 in and fps nearly quadrupled.

im sure your amd +4400 is slowing even the 8800gtx, upgrade that cpu and motherboard first, a new graphics card will be a waste until you do :)
 
If you upgraded that P4 to his 4600+ it would quadrupled the frame rate. The P4 northwood was a terrible CPU.

I did some testing with a 3700+ and a FX60 and the frame rate was almost identical. If IIRC a 8800gtx was happy with a decent Athlon 64, that was like four years ago now though.
 
rhys216 said:
I think your over hyping the 8800GTX, Yes I had one, yes they were good back in their day, but they are pretty slow now at high res gaming (>1920*1080) with high details and AA etc.
The only reason Nvidia recycled it is because it was all they had to offer as GT200 didn't scale down, not because it was the second coming of the GPU messiah.
Bottom line it should have been laid to rest yonks ago.

Op just get the 5850 and see how it does, because bottleneck or no bottleneck it's going to run allot faster than your 8800 and even if you upgrade your system this is the card to get.
Click to expand...
rhys I totally agree that 5850 is a great card as a choice for upgrading, and yes I know 8800GTX does not have enough juice to play some games at 1920x1080 with high AA, but most average Joe are still gaming at 1680x1050 at the moment...it is only recently with the 1080p monitors price drop that more and more people starting to switch over to them. Looking at his few years old system, I doubt he is pairing a 1920x1080 monitor with it, so I assume he is gaming at 1680x1050 at most.

Anyway, now that I know he got a £500 budget, I agree with you that he could get 5850 (£200ish) first and see if the boost is enough for him and if the CPU is holding him back or not.

If neccesary, he can then upgrade to one of these overclocked bundles for around £300-350 if he's not familiar/comfortable with overclocking himself:
Intel:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-042-OE&groupid=43&catid=339&subcat= (£339)
AMD:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-007-OB&groupid=43&catid=339&subcat= (£310)


And of course, if he can do the overclock himself, it would be cheaper to just buy the parts instead paying for the overclock bundle prices. Hell, can even get a i5 750+CPU cooler+RAM+motherboard instead for around £10 cheaper than the i3 530 overclocked bundle:


I think he probably be able to get around £40 back from selling his DDR2 4GB 800Mhz RAMs and another £40 back for selling his 8800GTX
 
Last edited:
Marine-RX179 said:
Edit: Werehamster. I forgot to ask you...do you know how to build a PC system or have friend that can do it for you? Also, are you familiar with overclocking CPU?
Click to expand...

Eheh, man... pants down I must admit I dunno how to do it. I have a friend who could help me... but he is not in London anymore :(

The only experience I have was when I helped mounting the University cluster. Hardware? Well I set up the connections for the HPC and I worked out the linux system, but when it comes to pc and windows I am as expert as my mother ^^

Yes, definitely a bundle is the best choice. It is already overclocked, and I can save myself some embarrassing frying of the CPU.

I did always want to learn, but I do not know where to start...:( I read about it on the internet but I still do not feel confident enough to do it.

The 5850 seems a good graphic card ... still I am puzzled and I do not know if I can effectively fit it into my motherboard (dimension wise).
I think that upgrading the graphic card would be the most logical move (as you suggested), Therefore, I'll see what is the gain I can get, and eventually go for a full upgrade buying a system bundle.

HEY HEY HEY!!! Guys you are really over-estimating my system!!!! High resolution ??? What is that? If I had noticed any improvement of performance with 800x600 I would be playing with that :D.
I am playing Global Agenda at the second lowest resolution, (probably 1200x ???) with all graphic sets off (no aa,no shadows, low textures) and hitting (in a good day an an empty room) 20-30 FPS.

Therefore, I pray the Gods of computers that the whole pvp map does not show up to the capturing point. Eventually, in the thick of the battle and probably when my cpu gets hot, my fps drops to 14!!! (That's why I looked for an upgrade).

Again, thanks a lot for the time and efforts you are making to help me!
Cheers!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom