Help to replace stolen kit...

[lucid]

No... What does that mean? I thought it might be as simple as CAT5 cabling, ie, one end in the computer/speaker, and the other end in the switch/amp... I kind of assumed that the different colours might be to help identify/differentiate cables going to different channels ie, red = front/left and black = back/right etc...

It's exactly as I said before - Positive and Negative. That's it. Simple. Done. End of story.

How much damage can I do if I get this wrong? Worst case is blowing up a speaker rather than blowing up me or the house right, there's no real power involved?

Swapping positive and negative won't damage a speaker, but it will invert the phase.

Your loudspeakers are trying to replicate the effect of sound waves. The cones move forward to create the pulses of energy. They then move backwards in recovery ready for the next wave to be generated. Swapping the polarities on a speaker means the cone will be moving in the wrong direction all the time. With a single speaker you'd still hear sound, but it would be out of phase with the signal that was generating it.

Reversing the polarity of one speaker in a stereo pair messes up the bass. The two cones moving in opposite directions causes cancellation. A good portion of the bass is muted.

The advice is simple. Wire up red to red only, and black to black only.

On this note, I read a classified ad that said the AV reciever had never been 'over-run'. What on earth would that mean? Can I not just leave it on for as long as I want it?

Overrun - Played so loud that there's distortion in the speakers or the amp overheats.

I get that thicker is better, and more shielding is good, but I've no idea how to actually quantify that. Unless I know what spec line to check out, I wouldn't know if I was paying £2 for a £10 cable, or £10 for a £2 cable, if that makes any sense? Obviously different companies have different costs/margins etc

If the site gives a cable thickness - often quoted as A.W.G. where a smaller number means a thicker copper conductor - then that's a start.

 

[Kingy]

It's exactly as I said before - Positive and Negative. That's it. Simple. Done. End of story.

Swapping positive and negative won't damage a speaker, but it will invert the phase.

Your loudspeakers are trying to replicate the effect of sound waves. The cones move forward to create the pulses of energy. They then move backwards in recovery ready for the next wave to be generated. Swapping the polarities on a speaker means the cone will be moving in the wrong direction all the time. With a single speaker you'd still hear sound, but it would be out of phase with the signal that was generating it.

Reversing the polarity of one speaker in a stereo pair messes up the bass. The two cones moving in opposite directions causes cancellation. A good portion of the bass is muted.

The advice is simple. Wire up red to red only, and black to black only.

Overrun - Played so loud that there's distortion in the speakers or the amp overheats.

If the site gives a cable thickness - often quoted as A.W.G. where a smaller number means a thicker copper conductor - then that's a start.

Legend, thank you very much...

I can see pictures of the back of the AV receivers, and see that they have both red and black sockets for each input, so that's simple enough. I take it that I should expect the same two sockets on the back of each speaker? So presumably each of the two wires are terminated with its own banana plugs rather than both wires going into one plug then? And I need to make sure that the red connector is put on the same wire at each end of the cable?

I've seen mention of a 'receiver to sub' cable? Is this a different type of cable/connector?

Do you know much about the multi-room feature? Is it just an extra couple of speaker ports that are subsequently always on, or can those extra speakers be turned on/off as required?

 

[lucid]

And I need to make sure that the red connector is put on the same wire at each end of the cable?

With respect, are you taking the Mick?

What's the point in trying to to keep the polarity correct if you're going to mess up the colouring? If you can't work that out for yourself then you need to pay someone else to come wire your system because you're too thick to do it yourself. You wired your first stereo system and followed the instructions I take it. This is no different. Read the manuals, but it ain't rocket science. Please be sensible and start to use your brain a bit, eh?

I've seen mention of a 'receiver to sub' cable? Is this a different type of cable/connector?

With an AV receiver the sub cable is usually a phono to phono connection. Google it.

Do you know much about the multi-room feature? Is it just an extra couple of speaker ports that are subsequently always on, or can those extra speakers be turned on/off as required?

Multi-room features:

The second zone works independently from the first - but with limitations.

Zone 2 (Z2) can be switched on/off, change source, change volume just as if you were controlling an entirely separate amp.

The second zone can only be driven with plain stereo sources (eg CD player, Sky box or iPod connected to the amp on the red & white phono plugs) perhaps the radio tuner.

Any digital source - i.e. stuff that need the decoding features of the main amp such as a DVD or Blu-ray player or a digital connection from a CD player or iPod dock - these can't be used as sources for the second zone. The Zone 2 part of the amp doesn't have any digital decoders. If you want to use a DVD/BD player as a Z2 source you need to make an analogue connection with some phono cables when wiring the system.

You also need to have some full range speakers connected in the second zone. It won't use the sub from Zone 1 because Z2 operates entirely separately from Z1 so obviously the sub in Zone 1 is dedicated to just the AV surround speakers.

For full range speakers look at the bookshelf ranges from various retailers. Don't buy a 5.1 speaker kit for use in Z2. In the context of the kit we've been discussing so far it won't work and you'll have wasted your money.​

 

[Kingy]

With respect, are you taking the Mick?

No I'm not, I thought I was starting to get it, but it seems not.

EDIT: For what's it's worth, I figured that what was required was the red port on the speaker gets one of the two wires inserted, designated as red. That same wire would need inputting into the red port on the receiver, with the opposite being true for the black connections. I was thinking of it as being a sort of send and receive channel if you like.

What's the point in trying to to keep the polarity correct if you're going to mess up the colouring? If you can't work that out for yourself then you need to pay someone else to come wire your system because you're too thick to do it yourself. You wired your first stereo system and followed the instructions I take it. This is no different. Read the manuals, but it ain't rocket science. Please be sensible and start to use your brain a bit, eh?

I don't understand polarity, nor positive and negative really. All that stuff you said about phases and waves went way over my head.
The IS-100 I had before the break-in had cables hardwired into the speakers, and a plug on the end that looked similar to an RJ-11 connector. The Pioneer system I had before that had the same connectors at the receiver end, but just a spring clip on unterminated cables. The cable consisted of two wires, one of which had a red band around it, so I put that in the red spring clip. Idiot proof it seems.

I'll readily admit to stupidity or ignorance as appropriate, but this is just something that I just don't understand, and was trying to get a clue on a carrier pidgeon internet connection in a foreign country, while trying to salvage our holiday.

I was just trying to learn, apologies if I've ****ed you off. It wasn't intentional. If it weren't for the fact that I now understand that kit exists that will do what I want (ie, output everything via a single HDMI cable) but that the idiot proof All-In-One systems don't support the video upscaling to make it happen, I'd have left well alone. Perhaps your right, and I should just give up and pay someone, or just buy one of those sound bars and be done with it.

With an AV receiver the sub cable is usually a phono to phono connection. Google it.

Thank you, I didn't know that. I'll look into it...

Multi-room features:

The second zone works independently from the first - but with limitations.

Zone 2 (Z2) can be switched on/off, change source, change volume just as if you were controlling an entirely separate amp.

The second zone can only be driven with plain stereo sources (eg CD player, Sky box or iPod connected to the amp on the red & white phono plugs) perhaps the radio tuner.

Any digital source - i.e. stuff that need the decoding features of the main amp such as a DVD or Blu-ray player or a digital connection from a CD player or iPod dock - these can't be used as sources for the second zone. The Zone 2 part of the amp doesn't have any digital decoders. If you want to use a DVD/BD player as a Z2 source you need to make an analogue connection with some phono cables when wiring the system.

You also need to have some full range speakers connected in the second zone. It won't use the sub from Zone 1 because Z2 operates entirely separately from Z1 so obviously the sub in Zone 1 is dedicated to just the AV surround speakers.

For full range speakers look at the bookshelf ranges from various retailers. Don't buy a 5.1 speaker kit for use in Z2. In the context of the kit we've been discussing so far it won't work and you'll have wasted your money.​

Thank you for the info, it looks like the multi-room feature isn't what I hoped it would be. I'll put that idea to bed.

EDIT2: Apologies, I've never done well with books/manuals. Always learnt better with people explaining, and me asking questions etc. Apologies if that has comes as laziness or taking the mick, it was certainly not my intention to deliberately waste your time. Your time and help has been very much appreciated...

 

[Kingy]

If only to prove that even idiots can achieve even some level of success with perseverance, I now have a Sony KDL-52NX803, Sony STR-DH820, and BASW5.1 setup up and running! \o/

I bought/crimped/connected the speaker cables, and thankfully they all work. The cable had a red line running down one wire, so I put one end in the red speaker spring connector, and the other in the red amp connector, and I have sound!

I've got Sky HD/PS3/X360/PC connected to the four HDMI inputs on the AV receiver, and just the one HDMI cable running from AV receiver to the TV. Althought I can't get 5.1 from the PC, everything works...

...except the wii.

I read the manual, followed the instructions the best I could, but am having no joy.

I connected the Wii using the supplied Composite cable, to the BD channel input. As the PS3 is connected to the BD HDMI port, I'm trying to get the Wii to work on the Video 2 channel.

Following the instructions on page 63, I configured the Video 2 channel to use CVBS for Video, and Analog for Audio. No output. No other settings combination works either.

I tried using the Component cable I bought. I configured the Video 2 channel to use Comp 1 for Video, and Analog for Audio. I get video, but no audio.

If the PS3 is turned off, I get audio and video from the Wii on the BD channel regardless of whether I use the Composite or Component cables. This proves that the wii and the cables are functioning, so presumably it's an issue with either the assignable inputs, or the idiot configuring them.

It's hardly a massive hardship to use the BD channel, but I feel a little cheated that I can't get the assignable inputs to work after all this. Does anyone have any ideas on where I might be going wrong?

 

[lucid]

If the PS3 is turned off, I get audio and video from the Wii on the BD channel regardless of whether I use the Composite or Component cables. This proves that the wii and the cables are functioning, so presumably it's an issue with either the assignable inputs, or the idiot configuring them.

It sounds a bit like you've got the sockets where the Wii is connected assigned to the BD channel and not the Video 2 channel.


PC audio - are you sure your PC can send sound out over HDMI? If it can, is it capable of outputting 5.1 audio in Dolby Digital format over HDMI? If you're not sure then an optical cable might be an easier way to connect for the audio side of things.

 

[Kingy]

It sounds a bit like you've got the sockets where the Wii is connected assigned to the BD channel and not the Video 2 channel.

Aye, the PS3 is physically connected to the HDMI input labelled as the BD channel.

The Wii is physically connected to the Component 1 input labelled as the BD channel, and also the Red and White audio input labelled BD channel. When I assign the Video 2 channel to Comp 1, I get Video from the Wii, on the Video 2 channel, but no Audio regardless of which of the three setting I use to reassign it.

Its as though only the video inputs are assignable, but not the audio? I'd try one of the other audio inputs (Coax or Optical), but I don't have another cable, and even if I did, the Wii doesen't output that way.

Is it possible that only video is upscaled and sent out over the HDMI cable, while audio is left to fend for itself? Would getting another Optical cable to run from the TV to the AV receiver be a good idea? Atm there's only one going from the Sky HD box to the AV receiver so that I get 5.1 from Sky...

PC audio - are you sure your PC can send sound out over HDMI? If it can, is it capable of outputting 5.1 audio in Dolby Digital format over HDMI? If you're not sure then an optical cable might be an easier way to connect for the audio side of things.

Not sure about 5.1 over HDMI, but I'm getting stereo, so I can live with that for now as it saves me drilling another hole through the wall... (ProTip, don't fill and paint the HDMI cable hole before running an optical and Ethernet cable through too... )

I get that 5.1 means having different sounds coming out of different speakers, but what's it called when normal stereo is outputted through all 5 speakers? That seems to be happening by default from Sky (on channels where the program isn't DD rated), but I don't know what it's called to see if I can do the same for the PC...

On another note, did I do right by connecting Red speaker connector > Red speaker wire > Red AV input? I've seen polarity and in phase written in the manual, which reminded me of a couple of thing you said, but I was too dumb to understand... All I've done is connected the speakers and run the Auto calibration... I thought the TV speakers weren't too bad at low volumes, but there's so much more depth to the sound now...

One last thing, thank you for your help before... I wouldn't reccommend being burgled, but replacing the kit with better stuff softens the blow, and I wouldn't have known what I do now without your help...

 

[lucid]

Aye, the PS3 is physically connected to the HDMI input labelled as the BD channel.

The Wii is physically connected to the Component 1 input labelled as the BD channel, and also the Red and White audio input labelled BD channel. When I assign the Video 2 channel to Comp 1, I get Video from the Wii, on the Video 2 channel, but no Audio regardless of which of the three setting I use to reassign it.

OK, two points here...

1) a component or composite video cable doesn't carry audio. If you have component (red, green, blue) or composite (yellow) connected then you need an audio cable to be connected from the source as well. Audio can be analogue on phonos (red & white or red & black - same difference) or a digital signal on optical or coax.

2) you need to assign the audio inputs as well as assigning the video inputs. It's two separate steps. You need to do both. One for picture. One for sound.

I get that 5.1 means having different sounds coming out of different speakers, but what's it called when normal stereo is outputted through all 5 speakers?

Dolby Pro-Logic - shortened to just Pro-Logic - is the most common shorthand for this, but your amp with have several ways of spreading a 2ch signal over the surround speakers.

Without wishing to get in to anal discussions with other forum members about the minutiae details, if we start with the signal type then it breaks down roughly like this...

TV programmes/games - usually in stereo and with a DOLBY Surround (Pro-Logic) hidden in the encoding - Set your amp to Pro-Logic or Pro-LogicII (the newer version) and you'll get voices from the centre channel speaker, music & front channel pan & FX from the front L&R speakers, and rear surround from the back speakers. See PLII MV on page 55 of your manual.

[PLIIx does the same thing but spreads the sound over a 6.1/7.1 speaker array. See PLIIx MV on page 55 of your manual if you have the extra rear speaker(s)]

2ch stereo sources - e.g. CD, iPod, music off your PC, radio etc - Use PLII MS (Music Source), Multi ST (Multi channel stereo - Page 54), or try one of the effects settings if you want a Jazz club/Stadium/Hall/Church echo effect. NEO6 MUS (Neo:6 Music) does a 2ch to 7 channel conversion effect.

Most of the time you'll find that PLII MV or PLII MS will cater for your needs for anything other than DVD or Blu-ray.

On another note, did I do right by connecting Red speaker connector > Red speaker wire > Red AV input? I've seen polarity and in phase written in the manual, which reminded me of a couple of thing you said, but I was too dumb to understand... All I've done is connected the speakers and run the Auto calibration... I thought the TV speakers weren't too bad at low volumes, but there's so much more depth to the sound now...

One last thing, thank you for your help before... I wouldn't reccommend being burgled, but replacing the kit with better stuff softens the blow, and I wouldn't have known what I do now without your help...

Yep, you connected correctly.

Auto Calibration is useful. It's not the last word in quality, but at least most people can be assured of a basic level of performance with the hardware doing most of the work for them.

The difference that a surround system makes - or even just a stereo amp and a pair of speakers - is a big step up from TV speakers as you've found, so I'm glad it has worked out well for you.