Help with freeview

Tesla · 13 Jul 2007 at 20:35

How much was your TV?

How much was your aerial?

Jaap74 · 13 Jul 2007 at 22:25

get SKY

rubin1961 · 13 Jul 2007 at 22:27

get in touch with a reputble local installer.
if he is honest and knows his stuff it should cost you about £80 for a full install for a outdoor aerial to 1 room.

Reality|Bites · 13 Jul 2007 at 22:58

did you have the ariel plugged in before you switched the TV on for the first time, I bet you didn't

reset your TV to factory defaults with the ariel plugged in and it should find all your freeview channels when it does it's initial scan.

carpmaster · 14 Jul 2007 at 11:35

rubin1961 said:
get in touch with a reputble local installer.
if he is honest and knows his stuff it should cost you about £80 for a full install for a outdoor aerial to 1 room.

If he uses poor quality parts, has no insurance and can't afford the proper test equipment because he doesn't charge enough, then it should cost you about £80. Nobody who really knows their stuff would charge £80!

Energize · 14 Jul 2007 at 18:19

carpmaster said:
If he uses poor quality parts, has no insurance and can't afford the proper test equipment because he doesn't charge enough, then it should cost you about £80. Nobody who really knows their stuff would charge £80!

I'd consider £80 to install an aerial expensive. We have always installed our aerials and satallite dishes ourselves, all it involves is fitting an aerial on the roof and running a wire through the loft.

Tesla · 14 Jul 2007 at 23:17

I charge around £150 upwards but will not compromise on quality or installation method.

I disagree that all it involves is chucking an aerial on the roof and a bit of cable into the loft.

JonnyGeee · 15 Jul 2007 at 08:12

TurnipHead said:
I was already doing the DTV menu button scan thingy.

But now it works, thanks to Jonny. I just moved the box into a different place and I picked up some channels, moved it again and got some more. Just gotta find the best one. Thanks a lot.

Np

I Just simply don't understand how it works, but it does.

carpmaster · 15 Jul 2007 at 11:21

Energize said:
I'd consider £80 to install an aerial expensive. We have always installed our aerials and satallite dishes ourselves, all it involves is fitting an aerial on the roof and running a wire through the loft.

What type of aerial did you use?

Tesla · 15 Jul 2007 at 12:02

JonnyGeee said:
Np I Just simply don't understand how it works, but it does.

Because you are using such a poor quality coax cable going into the box with basically no screening properties it is acting as an aerial and picking up some signal, hence how moving the box around (you will actually be moving your very poor interconnect at the same time) can effect the signal.

rubin1961 · 16 Jul 2007 at 06:04

If he uses poor quality parts, has no insurance and can't afford the proper test equipment because he doesn't charge enough, then it should cost you about £80. Nobody who really knows their stuff would charge £80!

i do and all quality parts +2000 000 insurance + high spec meter.

Tesla · 16 Jul 2007 at 08:45

rubin1961 said:
i do and all quality parts +2000 000 insurance + high spec meter.

And you charge £80? What do you consider high spec and a good meter? Genuine question as if you really do use good kit then you are massively underselling yourself. Perhaps this is necessary though in your locale?

rubin1961 · 16 Jul 2007 at 22:06

televes fsm 100 cost me £1250+vat

Tesla · 16 Jul 2007 at 22:51

rubin1961 said:
televes fsm 100 cost me £1250+vat

What about the parts and consumables?

rubin1961 · 16 Jul 2007 at 23:00

antiference rx12/rx20
9"/12" wall bracket
8"/13" chimney bracket
6ft heavy duty alloy mast
if i use a blake dmx05 or dmx10 then £10 quid more.
i only use dmx05 and dmx10 in poor signal aerias. ie belper and heanor were sometimes i have to go on the yorkshire mast.

rubin1961 · 16 Jul 2007 at 23:10

like the carp in your sig

carpmaster · 17 Jul 2007 at 21:22

rubin1961 said:
televes fsm 100 cost me £1250+vat

The FSM100 doesn't allow any measurement of BER?n It's just a referenced C/N ratio and channel power which isn't much help for Freeview. Without CBER/VBER you've got no idea whether it will work properly or not. It basically means you're slashing in the wind when you're aligning an aerial for Freeview.....

rubin1961 said:
antiference rx12/rx20
9"/12" wall bracket

8"/13" chimney bracket
6ft heavy duty alloy mast
if i use a blake dmx05 or dmx10 then £10 quid more.
i only use dmx05 and dmx10 in poor signal aerias. ie belper and heanor were sometimes i have to go on the yorkshire mast.

Without going into too much detail about what you've written above, i'll just comment on a few on the things I think need addressing the most.

Firstly, the Antiference RX range don't even have baluns, which are essential for Freeview. You can't properly match the balanced feeder to the unbalanced cable without a balun (balanced to unbalanced). The aerial is the most important thing by far and I can't believe you're compromising here.

If you charged more than £80 you could start with a much better one like the Antiference Trucolor range (TCX now). All metal design (no nasty plastic snap in reflectors) and a decent balun! Much better clamp design, individually boxed (not wedged in with lots of others). Much much better.

A DMX5 is a bit pointless. An RX20 will provide more forward gain than a DMX5 so you shouldn't be using a DMX5 because you think it's better in an area of low field strength. It's just a greater wind loading / weight on the mast with no upside.

Presumably you are using wideband aerials for digital?

You make no mention of cable either, the second most important item!

rubin1961 · 18 Jul 2007 at 23:42

the cable i use is rg6 64 strand which is perfect for uhf.
i use wideband aerials because there are 4 different transmitters in the areas i install and i have no problems at all.
i find the rx range of aerials are perfect for the areas i do,they pull all freeview and the analog pics are crisp.
so why should i change to different aerials.
iv run 4 room installs of the rx20 with a 4 way out door vision splitter with no problems and all freeview services are there.
some areas on the freeview web site say no service avalible but iv installed and got all services.
you say the rx range are cheep and nasty i totally diagree,iv come across many other aerial brands and seen them in bits.
you charge £150 for a 1 room install i find that very expensive and no matter what parts you use its still expensive.
i have no dowt you are a very good engineer and if i were a customer i would choose you any day over these big companys.

carpmaster · 19 Jul 2007 at 14:13

rubin1961 said:
the cable i use is rg6 64 strand which is perfect for uhf.
i use wideband aerials because there are 4 different transmitters in the areas i install and i have no problems at all.
i find the rx range of aerials are perfect for the areas i do,they pull all freeview and the analog pics are crisp.
so why should i change to different aerials.
iv run 4 room installs of the rx20 with a 4 way out door vision splitter with no problems and all freeview services are there.
some areas on the freeview web site say no service avalible but iv installed and got all services.
you say the rx range are cheep and nasty i totally diagree,iv come across many other aerial brands and seen them in bits.
you charge £150 for a 1 room install i find that very expensive and no matter what parts you use its still expensive.
i have no dowt you are a very good engineer and if i were a customer i would choose you any day over these big companys.

If you could measure the BER you'd know why you should use better quality aerials. The RX reflectors fall off / slide out because they are snap in plastic. The RX range may look good next to a 25p contract aerial or a B&Q special but they are still cheap aerials and have no baluns.

RG6 maybe fine for UHF loss wise, but there's a lot more to it than that. What about impulse inteference? What about the effect of off air broadcasts entering the transmission line and trashing the BER? What about the crosstalk between RG6 cables?

For me it's not about using the cheapest possible parts and charging as little as I can. I don't just judge an installation by whether or not it pulls in all the muxes, or whether the analogue is crisp.

If you've got no idea how to read the signal properly there's a good chance it's going to go pear shaped once you've driven off or a week or month after. Any variation in the signal & you'll be getting called back left right and centre.

It's a bit like kicking a car tyre, realising it's pumped up and saying it's fine........Yes it might be, but you're a professional and you should test things properly so you know exactly what's going on. An electrician can buy an aerial from Homebase and screw it to a wall. He can look at the TV and say it's perfect, but you should be better than that!

The large firms here charge anything from £200 to £400 for an installation and most of them are just total cowboys as seen on recent House of Horrors!

IMO you should try and seperate yourself from these people by doing the best job you possibly can, using the best materials & testing equipment available, providing excellent customer service & charging a FAIR price for your time & cumulative experience. You'll have people queuing to book you in & they won't be the kind that want everything done on the cheap.......Word of mouth is key in this business!

Just my opinion anyway....

rubin1961 · 19 Jul 2007 at 14:34

most of my work ie:70% is recomend,i take pride in my work and were i can hide cable i do.
i have never had call backs useing rx range and they dont fall in bits.
just because they are clip on parts dose not mean they rubbish.
the slx range are not clip on parts but are totaly crap and antiference are a very good manufactor of aerials.