Help with server for network degree.....

sicknote

sicknote

sicknote

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Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
217
Hoping to start a network degree later in the year and I'm looking to build a server to help with studies. I also need it to double up as my HTPC and want it to draw as little power as possible.

I currently have:-

Comp 1
i7-920
12GB
80GB SSD + 128GB SSD + 1TB Hard drive
Quadro 2000

Comp 2
i3-530
4GB (Maximum 8GB)
250GB + 4 x 2TB Hard drives

Comp 3
Fairly high spec laptop

meebox as iTunes server.

I spend most of my time on the laptop and never use the i7 computer. The i3 is set up as my HTPC. If I buy 8GB for the i3 computer and fit the 2 SSD drives that I have, will this make a good enough server for my studies?

Budget is not a concern if I need to buy anything.....just want something suitable. What's the best way for me to go?
 
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I'd stick VMWare ESXi on both the I7 and I3 boxes with more RAM in the I3. Then you can create 4 or 5 VMs on each box to simulate plenty of network scenarios.

Virtualisation is the best thing since sliced bread for labing things up cheaply and quickly.
 
Skidilliplop said:
I'd stick VMWare ESXi on both the I7 and I3 boxes with more RAM in the I3. Then you can create 4 or 5 VMs on each box to simulate plenty of network scenarios.

Virtualisation is the best thing since sliced bread for labing things up cheaply and quickly.
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This. You have ample power!
 
Thanks for the feedback guys.

Skidilliplop, so it's best to install ESXI on the boxes without any operating system and just virtualise what I need?
 
Personally, I'd go with a 'full' Server 8 Beta install on your I7 box. Add the Hyper-V role and then spin whatever VMs you want up whilst retaining all the easy configuration of having a full server install for the Hypervisor.

What you could then do, providing all of your physical machines are on the same network is enable RDP on all of the VM's you have running and connect in to them from your laptop.

Server 8 can then be reverted to Server 8 Core (Server 8 can revert between full, headless or core) thus your Host machine will use less resource.

You can then play with all the sexy new Windows 8 features ;) like live migration over the wire, hyper-v replica, new storage/network functionality, etc, etc. Plus you'll be getting hands on with an OS that's going to blow people away...
 
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sicknote said:
Thanks for the feedback guys.

Skidilliplop, so it's best to install ESXI on the boxes without any operating system and just virtualise what I need?
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Yup. That's the best way to get the most out of the boxes.
You could go server 8 + hyper-v, but:
In my experience hyper-v isn't as good as VMWare.
Server 8 is free in beta but as soon as it's released you'll have to buy it to keep using it, VMWare you won't
ESXi/vSphere uses less base resources than server 8 leaving more for your VMs.

Not to mention the vast majority of real world virtual environments run VMWare, so the experience will pay dividends :)
 
What degree are you doing? I'm about to graduate from a networking course and I'd be amased if you'll get much (if any) benefit from this. Particulary in first year.

Do you know what you will actually be studying? The first year of most networking courses is basic computing stuff. Number systems, programming, logic theory etc combined with very basic networking bits. OSI model, basics of TCP/IP, simple routing with RIP etc

You'd probably be better off buying switches and routers to be honest so you can see how different network tech/protocols like RIP, OSPF, BGP, STP, VLANS etc work in reality. Windows server is easy - anybody can pick it up.
 
True, there's still lots to learn from it. But I can't imagine it will help much with a networking degree. Having said that, I only know the syllabus of two or three courses so maybe there are degrees out there for which it would be more use.
 
Skidilliplop said:
Yup. That's the best way to get the most out of the boxes.
You could go server 8 + hyper-v, but:
In my experience hyper-v isn't as good as VMWare.
Click to expand...

A couple of years ago maybe... but not any more. There are many aspects where it has surpassed VMware.

Server 8 is free in beta but as soon as it's released you'll have to buy it to keep using it, VMWare you won't
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If he's serious about learning infrastructure then a TechNet sub is a no brainer so this isn't an issue... and if he's intending on running any Windows VM's, what licenses was he going to use for them?

Not to mention the vast majority of real world virtual environments run VMWare, so the experience will pay dividends :)
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Not when Server 8 hit's the shelves ;-) The amount of interest it's generating in the 'real world' is immense. Hyper-V combined with SC2012 will be dominant in the next couple of years :)
 
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NiCkNaMe said:
If he's serious about learning infrastructure then a TechNet sub is a no brainer so this isn't an issue... and if he's intending on running any Windows VM's, what licenses was he going to use for them?
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Any University worth it's salt will provide their students with all the licenses imaginable through Dreamspark, including all the server OS's, client OS's, IDE's, and client applications you could possibly require.
 
NiCkNaMe said:
A couple of years ago maybe... but not any more. There are many aspects where it has surpassed VMware.



If he's serious about learning infrastructure then a TechNet sub is a no brainer so this isn't an issue... and if he's intending on running any Windows VM's, what licenses was he going to use for them?



Not when Server 8 hit's the shelves ;-) The amount of interest it's generating in the 'real world' is immense. Hyper-V combined with SC2012 will be dominant in the next couple of years :)
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Have you actually tried it and tried it to do the tasks that ESXi coupled with Virtual Center does?

It's too disjointed. The licencing though is brilliant and the product is good they just need a single roof and I'd be pushing for it. With Virtual Center everything is easy - HA / DRS / SV-Motion / Storage Profiles / etc, etc, etc.

With Microsoft you feasably can do it - but you need to couple nigh on all of the System Center suite to do so and you also need to be capable of writing fairly complex scripts.

We looked into this when VMware changed there licencing and even went to see Microsoft to discuss this (amongst other topics) and they can't offer what VMware can at the moment which is a single application where by you can do everything from it.

VMware is safe for the time being - Windows 9 if they can get the above sorted (and get rid of metro but thats a different post) then it would be time to have a look into.



M.
 
m4cc45 said:
Have you actually tried it and tried it to do the tasks that ESXi coupled with Virtual Center does?

It's too disjointed. The licencing though is brilliant and the product is good they just need a single roof and I'd be pushing for it. With Virtual Center everything is easy - HA / DRS / SV-Motion / Storage Profiles / etc, etc, etc.

With Microsoft you feasably can do it - but you need to couple nigh on all of the System Center suite to do so and you also need to be capable of writing fairly complex scripts.

We looked into this when VMware changed there licencing and even went to see Microsoft to discuss this (amongst other topics) and they can't offer what VMware can at the moment which is a single application where by you can do everything from it.

VMware is safe for the time being - Windows 9 if they can get the above sorted (and get rid of metro but thats a different post) then it would be time to have a look into.

M.
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I do it day in day out in a number of scenarios, for a number of customers in a number of environments. I'm not a blind MS enthusiast (I've done my VCP and spent a while working with VMware tech) so I know there are (currently) still shortcomings but what you said above is not really correct.

You've been able to do HA/DRS etc properly with the tech that's been out since Feb 2011. You are correct in saying DRS required another SC product; Operations Manager.. but the integration was ridiculously easy. I'm talking a few minutes. HOWEVER the initial setup of Operations Manager is a pig and requires time, so you ideally needed to be a MS house and have other wants and desires for SCOM to bother investing in it.

Subsequently, Microsoft realised this and moved this tech into Virtual Machine Manager (which is the equivalent to VCenter)... and with Virtual Machine Manager 2012 (the RC has been out since October 2011) you can do DRS without integrating any of the other SC products. That's with the current version of Hyper-V R2 SP1. There is LOTS of NEW as well as CATCHUP features in VMM 2012.... Service Templates, Host Profiles, SQL Profiles, Server App-V, Heavy PowerShell integration....... it's an amazing product and really offers so much more than 'standard virtualisation'. VMM 2012 RTM hit MSDN/VLS last week :)

Then moving on we've got Hyper-V 3.0 which is due out with Server 8 in Q3/Q4 this year. Not only have they caught up with VMware minimums and maximums (which funnily enough VMware now state mean nothing :p strange when half of their exam is based on it!)... they've surpassed and created numerous new and exciting features, e.g. SMB based storage, Hyper-V replica (over the wire), Live Migration (over the wire), VHDX, Storage vMotion - the new features are literally endless.

I'm hardly scratching the surface with the above but I suggest you re-visit Hyper-V and System Center.. it's so much less painful to configure, the licensing costs are really attractive if you deploy any of the other SC products (SCCM, SCOM, DPM, SCSM, ORCH) and some of the new features will eat up your day ;) I suggest rather than going direct to MS for demos that you look at a partner as they'll be much more driven to show you the features and potential.

VMware isn't safe for the time being...

Cheers
 
NiCkNaMe said:
I do it day in day out in a number of scenarios, for a number of customers in a number of environments. I'm not a blind MS enthusiast (I've done my VCP and spent a while working with VMware tech) so I know there are (currently) still shortcomings but what you said above is not really correct.

You've been able to do HA/DRS etc properly with the tech that's been out since Feb 2011. You are correct in saying DRS required another SC product; Operations Manager.. but the integration was ridiculously easy. I'm talking a few minutes. HOWEVER the initial setup of Operations Manager is a pig and requires time, so you ideally needed to be a MS house and have other wants and desires for SCOM to bother investing in it.

Subsequently, Microsoft realised this and moved this tech into Virtual Machine Manager (which is the equivalent to VCenter)... and with Virtual Machine Manager 2012 (the RC has been out since October 2011) you can do DRS without integrating any of the other SC products. That's with the current version of Hyper-V R2 SP1. There is LOTS of NEW as well as CATCHUP features in VMM 2012.... Service Templates, Host Profiles, SQL Profiles, Server App-V, Heavy PowerShell integration....... it's an amazing product and really offers so much more than 'standard virtualisation'. VMM 2012 RTM hit MSDN/VLS last week :)

Then moving on we've got Hyper-V 3.0 which is due out with Server 8 in Q3/Q4 this year. Not only have they caught up with VMware minimums and maximums (which funnily enough VMware now state mean nothing :p strange when half of their exam is based on it!)... they've surpassed and created numerous new and exciting features, e.g. SMB based storage, Hyper-V replica (over the wire), Live Migration (over the wire), VHDX, Storage vMotion - the new features are literally endless.

I'm hardly scratching the surface with the above but I suggest you re-visit Hyper-V and System Center.. it's so much less painful to configure, the licensing costs are really attractive if you deploy any of the other SC products (SCCM, SCOM, DPM, SCSM, ORCH) and some of the new features will eat up your day ;) I suggest rather than going direct to MS for demos that you look at a partner as they'll be much more driven to show you the features and potential.

VMware isn't safe for the time being...

Cheers
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This has completely lost the scope of the thread.

But rhetorically: Hyper-V has progressed well and offers competing features to VMWare, but a lot are less well implemented and the consumer confidence just isn't there yet.
The entire argument above seems focussed on future releases of Hyper-V and microsoft server, and seemingly assumes VMWare has been and will continue to stand still. Most of the "Catchup" features still yet to be released are actually present now in vSphere5 and have been for months now, by the time Q3 or Q4 comes round we'll probably be hearing about the next vSphere release. Which will no doubt leapfrog ahead. Microsoft were latecomers to the market, no one expects them to overtake the market leader any time soon.

Implementation scenario dictates which is the effecive choice. As far as this thread is concerned with a small two node deployment set in the PRESENT Q1-Q2 2012, for a networking course (which will most liekly mean liniux and BSD based guest OS's) and a student's budget. The free version of vSphere seems the sensible choice. It's cost effective and it makes most efficient use of the available hardware resource.
 
sicknote said:
@NDJ88 I'm not 100% sure of the course contents, not even sure what Uni to choose to be honest.

Was the programming heavy on your course?
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Hi Sicknote,

I'm doing my final year project at the moment, so I've practically finished my course. I have done units dedicated to Assembly level programing, Java, and C.

We are expected to be able to at least read snippets of code included in examples. A lot of courseworks need an understanding of code, and an ability to wrtie it, in order to complete them (even if it's a networking unit).

A lot of people seem to shy away from the programming side, but it is a useful skill to have especially when you want to start scripting stuff in the real world.

What sort of course do you want to study, and what do you want to get out of it?
 
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