Help with setup please

Dirk Diggler · 23 Feb 2022 at 13:18

Cool, Google came up with this: https://www.demolandia.net/cinema/dolby-demo-trailers-hd/page-1.html

I take it I can plug the USB into my LG TV and it will have the codecs to play the files properly?

Edit: I'm getting the same issue with the downloaded file. It doesn't output anything to the subwoofer when it gets to that part, but when all the speakers are triggered then there is definitely output from the sub.

I've definitely got LFE set; I can't think what's causing this unless it's a faulty unit.

lucid · 23 Feb 2022 at 14:29

Dirk Diggler said:
Cool, Google came up with this: https://www.demolandia.net/cinema/dolby-demo-trailers-hd/page-1.html

I take it I can plug the USB into my LG TV and it will have the codecs to play the files properly?

Edit: I'm getting the same issue with the downloaded file. It doesn't output anything to the subwoofer when it gets to that part, but when all the speakers are triggered then there is definitely output from the sub.

I've definitely got LFE set; I can't think what's causing this unless it's a faulty unit.

First off, stop panicking. There are lots of reasons why a Youtube demo won't play correctly. It's why those of us in the trade don't use YT demos when setting up and testing gear. There are just far too many unknowns with them. We use test discs and test tone generators.

If it's any comfort to you, I played the same demo from your first link and got the same results as you. No bass from the sub, and I definitely know my system is set correctly.

I'm not going to waste a lot of time trying to remotely diagnose, but I will point out that if the info in your header post is correct...

Dirk Diggler said:
Samsung TV connected via HDMI plus optical cable

... then 5.1 PCM tracks will never give you the LFE channel signal. In fact, you should only get stereo, not even the dedicated centre and surround channels. That's because Optical doesn't have the capacity to do any more than 2ch PCM. This is why DD and DTS are so important when using optical. The compressed feed carries all the channels including LFE.

Another wrinkle is that YT stopped streaming 5.1 some time ago. TTBOMK it only does stereo.

Dirk Diggler · 23 Feb 2022 at 14:49

@lucid thanks, that's reassuring to know that the YouTube vid worked the same for you.

For clarification, I'm now connected to a LG55CX via ARCe with 4K HDMI cable. My previous post refers to a test I did with a downloaded test file that I played via USB plugged into the TV. This is the file I downloaded (the channel check file): https://youtu.be/_ttYSpt8oiw and it still didn't output the sub part.

I appreciate that remote diagnosis isn't very practical, so I suppose the best question I could ask is how can I best test that my sub is working as it should?

lucid · 23 Feb 2022 at 17:14

Dirk Diggler said:
@lucidI appreciate that remote diagnosis isn't very practical, so I suppose the best question I could ask is how can I best test that my sub is working as it should?

Do you get audio from the sub with the amp's test tones? - [Yes/No]

If Yes then your sub is set up correctly. That's it. Simple as that.

The rest of whether or not your sub makes a noise when playing various content is down to the audio signal (is it encoded correctly, is it flagged correctly?), and then the menu settings on the various sources.

A few nights ago a banner popped up on my Disney+ feed that the film Master and Commander had been added. That's got some fat bass, even in just 5.1 DD, so I had a play Disney+ > Fire TV stick > Panasonic UHD TV > HDMI ARC > Yamaha AV receiver > REL Stadium II sub. The ship's battles with the cannon fire left me in no doubt at all that the sub was working. If I wanted conformation then I could switch over to Blu-ray or UHD BD and play a film with True HD or DTS Master Audio.

If you're lacking proper sources then scratching around for something that has 0.1 LFE audio is going to leave you a bit frustrated. I haven't found anything much in the way of 5.1 content on the free streaming services such as IMDB (don't even think they stream better than stereo, but haven't spent any time to really investigate). iPlayer is the same IFAIK. A movie on the HD channels from terrestrial is probably your best chance. The rest is the paid-for content from Prime, Netflix, Disney+, Sky and Virgin.

Dirk Diggler · 23 Feb 2022 at 17:23

@lucid cheers. I've got Disney+ so I'll check that out.

Dirk Diggler · 23 Feb 2022 at 18:15

lucid said:
Do you get audio from the sub with the amp's test tones? - [Yes/No]

This is a no, unless I turn the volume up to almost max. However, the sub definitely gets an output as I can hear and feel it for sure during movie playback.

It's a bit annoying not to see the bass play individually like it should in the test files, but I think I'll need to give up as it's turning into a bit of a geeky time sink.

lucid · 23 Feb 2022 at 21:04

Dirk Diggler said:
This is a no

Something not right there then.

Some subs are quieter than others, and so the volume needs to be set higher with control on the sub. This is marked VOLUME on the back of a DALI C-8D. The connection from the Denon to the sub should be from Pre-Out > Subwoofer > 1. The connection in to the DALI should be in via the LFE socket. The CROSSOVER control should be set fully clockwise. Phase set to 0 degrees.

For the purposes of any test, set the DALI sub's power control to ON. Now go set the Sub's volume control clockwise to 3 o'clock.

Go to the Denon set up menus and choose the manual speaker set up mode or whatever you need to do in order to run test tones just on the sub. Report back with the result.

Dirk Diggler · 24 Feb 2022 at 12:21

lucid said:
For the purposes of any test, set the DALI sub's power control to ON. Now go set the Sub's volume control clockwise to 3 o'clock.

Power was at auto, everything else was as you suggested. Test tone now working. I'm still not getting the sub output when I run the channel test, but there's definitely output from the sub when the multi channel section starts - I think the Denon is outputting bass as a blend of total output if that makes sense?

Anyway, I'm getting sub output so all good. I take it the best way to adjust bass level is via the volume knob on the sub?

lucid · 24 Feb 2022 at 16:27

I'm a bit puzzled why you're having such difficulties with what is a very basic set-up, and that has the benefit of a microphone and wizard to do the set-up for you. You have got a mic; you have run the wizard - Yes?

The front left speaker is the reference level to which all the other speakers are adjusted to. When working in manual set-up mode you need to have the amplifier volume up loud enough that you get around 75-80dB from the front left speaker as measured from your main seating position. This will make the front three speakers seem quite loud, but without this the bass won't sound as loud to you - or even at all! - because of the way our hearing works.

Regarding sub volume adjustment; the sub's own level control should provide coarse adjustment. The amp's level control in the speaker set-up screens will fine tune this, and usually by +/-12dB. The idea is to get the coarse adjustment close enough that the amp isn't having to get close to its max either positively or negatively to get the system in balance. IOW, if the amp is having to boost bass LFE output to say +10dB then you should turn up the coarse level on the sub and then run the test again. If it's applying -10dB the you should decrease the sub coarse setting and run the wizard again. Where the sub is being adjusted up or down by say no more than 3dB then you got it close enough not to bother making further changes.

Dirk Diggler · 24 Feb 2022 at 16:33

Cheers for the info, I'll run the mic setup routine again.

Dirk Diggler · 24 Feb 2022 at 19:23

Jesus, what a wild goose chase I ended up on there. So, I did the Auto Setup with the mic and afterwards I'm getting no sub output, even though it tested the sub during the calibration. Just as I'm starting to think this unit hates me, I end up looking through the manual config again which is basically showing me all the settings that the amp has just auto configured... And I randomly change front speakers from "large" to "small" and that's what the problem was, sub output is now back.

What a carry on.

hornetstinger · 24 Feb 2022 at 22:02

Dirk Diggler said:
Jesus, what a wild goose chase I ended up on there. So, I did the Auto Setup with the mic and afterwards I'm getting no sub output, even though it tested the sub during the calibration. Just as I'm starting to think this unit hates me, I end up looking through the manual config again which is basically showing me all the settings that the amp has just auto configured... And I randomly change front speakers from "large" to "small" and that's what the problem was, sub output is now back.

What a carry on.

That was the first thing to check as speaker size is usually wrong

theone8181 · 25 Feb 2022 at 07:36

Dirk Diggler said:
Jesus, what a wild goose chase I ended up on there. So, I did the Auto Setup with the mic and afterwards I'm getting no sub output, even though it tested the sub during the calibration. Just as I'm starting to think this unit hates me, I end up looking through the manual config again which is basically showing me all the settings that the amp has just auto configured... And I randomly change front speakers from "large" to "small" and that's what the problem was, sub output is now back.

What a carry on.

It's ridiculous that this "feature" still exists, I'd bet most speakers will do a poorer job at bass than a sub yet it seams to default to this option (epic is ironic as the type of people who have speakers that would go that low, would know to switch it). Should default to small imo. I bet speakers that are actually large enough to put out bass that low are mega expensive (I'm expecting somebody to post examples

).

hornetstinger · 25 Feb 2022 at 14:39

theone8181 said:
It's ridiculous that this "feature" still exists, I'd bet most speakers will do a poorer job at bass than a sub yet it seams to default to this option (epic is ironic as the type of people who have speakers that would go that low, would know to switch it). Should default to small imo. I bet speakers that are actually large enough to put out bass that low are mega expensive (I'm expecting somebody to post examples).

Not many are true full range speakers, you want ones with 10" subwoofer at least. Even my big speakers are capable of 32hz, so they still aren't full range

Dirk Diggler · 25 Feb 2022 at 14:58

I've got it working now, but honestly what a retarded default - no wonder I couldn't get it working properly.

theone8181 · 26 Feb 2022 at 07:38

hornetstinger said:
Not many are true full range speakers, you want ones with 10" subwoofer at least. Even my big speakers are capable of 32hz, so they still aren't full range

And when the speaker has a sub in it, they become massive. Is it to do with music lovers preferring stereo over 2.1 maybe?

hornetstinger · 26 Feb 2022 at 15:19

theone8181 said:
And when the speaker has a sub in it, they become massive. Is it to do with music lovers preferring stereo over 2.1 maybe?

Speakers with dedicated subs introduce their own problems. Subwoofers places in the position of the left and right speakers may not be the best position for them. Also subseoofers have plate amps so if they fail you have a usellssy speaker. Plus cabinets stiffened and braced to take extra vibrations.

There are pros and cons of using a subwoofer or subwoofer in a two channel system, depends on room size, speaker type.

Dirk Diggler · 13 Nov 2024 at 13:21

Hi, could one of you knowledgeable people spec me decent quality white speaker cable, please?

Is it basically anything in 2x2.5mm or should I be looking at additional spec/properties?

For this setup:

Denon S760 amp
Dali Spektor speakers connected to front L & R
Dali C8D subwoofer
DALI Spektor Vokal Centre Speaker

Also, could anyone recommend floor stands for the Spektors?

Ta