Help with tricky decision - Upgrade 1070 Ti or wait

[SirPsychoZe0]

Hello all,

I am in a tricky position (as we all are) because of the Covid-19 situation and could do with some input.

I had upgraded at Christmas 2018 to my current rig (9700k, 16GB DDR4, 1070 Ti, 1440p@144hz monitor). These were all high-end parts at the time with the notable exception of the 1070 Ti. Now this is still a fine card and I bought it at a good price (£380), but it was designed as an interim upgrade - what I really wanted at the time (pre-Sept 2018) was the 2080 Ti. However as we all know, this turned out to be a moderate upgrade over the 1080 Ti but at a huge price jump that I could not justify. The RTX is not there yet (in terms of both performance in the card, and RTX in the games market space), so let's just discount that.

For the past year I have instead been holding out for the 3080 Ti which, whilst probably expensive, would deliver a sizeable boost in performance if the 40% increase gen-on-gen is to be believed. However, this is looking even more unlikely now and probably won't see the light of day in 2020. A rethink is therefore required it seems.

With the very likely price spike working its way through the GPU supply chain, I am put in a difficult position of this: Do I wait for another year for that 3080 Ti, or do I make ANOTHER interim upgrade in terms of 2070S / 2080 / 2080S.

I have looked at the benchmarks comparing the 1070 Ti with the above cards, and if I want to see a notable improvement, I think the 2080S is the only one that does that. In order shown, they broadly deliver a 30% / 40%/ 50% (sometimes 60%) FPS increase over the 1070 Ti at 1440p resolution. I don't think 30% is enough improvement, even though the price of a 2070S is fantastic. The 2080 normal is weirdly same/more expense than 2080S, so it rules itself out. So it seems that the only reasonable interim upgrade for me is 2080S.

At present, the best price for an OC'd 2080S card seems to be this one:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/msi-...ddr6-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-35z-ms.html

I reckon I could get this, sell my 1 year old 1070 Ti, and probably be out of pocket a net cost of about £500. I think this would easily see me through the games of 2020 and even 2021, and I could review the value proposition of the 3080 Ti in a year's time when it emerges and hopefully the world settles from the impact of Convid-19.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

 

[opethdisciple]

Hmm for the most part my 1080 is doing just fine at 1400p. Most games I can still max out at this resolution.

Only RDR2 was one recently that I couldn't.

A 1070ti is not that far off a 1080.

I'm personally waiting for the next gen.

The highlight of the 2000 series is the RTX. And really we need next gen to improve it so it is in more of a usable state.

I'd hold off personally.

 

[Dervious]

My 1070 is staying put until the next gen arrives. I've got a 1440p 144Hz G-Sync monitor and am currently working my way through AC Odyssey. Settings are pretty much on max, it looks great and is generally very smooth. It might start to struggle with the very latest titles, especially if settings aren't reduced a bit, but I still don't feel any need to upgrade just yet. Having said all that, I know a 2070S or greater would up the frame rate a fair bit and maybe improve graphic quality settings slightly. Not enough to make me want to upgrade yet though.

 

[SirPsychoZe0]

My 1070 is staying put until the next gen arrives. I've got a 1440p 144Hz G-Sync monitor and am currently working my way through AC Odyssey. Settings are pretty much on max, it looks great and is generally very smooth.

Thanks for your response. Here's the thing; you say that it is on max and generally runs very smooth, however I know from a number of benchmarks precisely the FPS that AC Odyssey produces on a 1070 Ti (with my rig) at 1440p, because its a common game to bench, and the FPS is usually around 50. You consider that smooth, yet I consider anything between 75-85 FPS to be "low" such that I notice it in games before I even look at the FPS counter. Anything below 60 I no longer consider playable for my personal tastes - that might sound snobbish, but my eyes notice what they notice and I can't change that. I aim for 120 FPS or above in games generally.

As you can see, our definition of "very smooth" here is very, very different, and presumably what is acceptable for you is not acceptable for me (btw there is nothing wrong with what we each find acceptable, again, not a criticism of you nor me but just an observation).

 

[opethdisciple]

Thanks for your response. Here's the thing; you say that it is on max and generally runs very smooth, however I know from a number of benchmarks precisely the FPS that AC Odyssey produces on a 1070 Ti (with my rig) at 1440p, because its a common game to bench, and the FPS is usually around 50. You consider that smooth, yet I consider anything between 75-85 FPS to be "low" such that I notice it in games before I even look at the FPS counter. Anything below 60 I no longer consider playable for my personal tastes - that might sound snobbish, but my eyes notice what they notice and I can't change that. I aim for 120 FPS or above in games generally.

As you can see, our definition of "very smooth" here is very, very different, and presumably what is acceptable for you is not acceptable for me (btw there is nothing wrong with what we each find acceptable, again, not a criticism of you nor me but just an observation).

I also played Odyssey at ultra at 1440p on my 1080 and it was great.

 

[SirPsychoZe0]

I also played Odyssey at ultra at 1440p on my 1080 and it was great.

The point of my previous post was to show the difficulties with subjective terms and personal experience. In the same way that that Dervious finds his experience to be "very smooth" (which I think is 50 FPS, and maybe lower as he has non-Ti variant of the 1070), I find this to be the opposite. So what you might find to be "great", I might disagree with. When you move away from these terms and discuss the numbers, then you remove that issue.

To avoid losing sight of my original query, I am looking forward-thinking insight around prices, releases of new tech etc, value propositioning etc.

 

[heatonpkmassive]

Thanks for your response. Here's the thing; you say that it is on max and generally runs very smooth, however I know from a number of benchmarks precisely the FPS that AC Odyssey produces on a 1070 Ti (with my rig) at 1440p, because its a common game to bench, and the FPS is usually around 50. You consider that smooth, yet I consider anything between 75-85 FPS to be "low" such that I notice it in games before I even look at the FPS counter. Anything below 60 I no longer consider playable for my personal tastes - that might sound snobbish, but my eyes notice what they notice and I can't change that. I aim for 120 FPS or above in games generally.

As you can see, our definition of "very smooth" here is very, very different, and presumably what is acceptable for you is not acceptable for me (btw there is nothing wrong with what we each find acceptable, again, not a criticism of you nor me but just an observation).

His is smooth because G-Sync is helping him out, makes a big difference. Are you using a Freesync / G-Sync monitor?

 

[SirPsychoZe0]

His is smooth because G-Sync is helping him out, makes a big difference. Are you using a Freesync / G-Sync monitor?

Yes I have used G-Sync for years. Again, we are back to same issue with such terms - smooth in the context of synchronised frames is one type of smooth, but it doesn’t fix the issue of low FPS.

Anyway, I decided to pull the trigger and get a 2080S (OC). Having done the math on likely future resale value and cost of a 3080 Ti, I reckon I should only be out of pocket around £250 versus waiting outright for the 3080 Ti. That’s effectively the price for a year of improved graphics and performance in my games - you could argue that that is close to the annual cost of a high-end card when spread over it’s useful life.

 

[orbitalwalsh]

Yes I have used G-Sync for years. Again, we are back to same issue with such terms - smooth in the context of synchronised frames is one type of smooth, but it doesn’t fix the issue of low FPS.

Anyway, I decided to pull the trigger and get a 2080S (OC). Having done the math on likely future resale value and cost of a 3080 Ti, I reckon I should only be out of pocket around £250 versus waiting outright for the 3080 Ti. That’s effectively the price for a year of improved graphics and performance in my games - you could argue that that is close to the annual cost of a high-end card when spread over it’s useful life.

Prob more fun to build a brand spanking new system the. Getting 2080ti/3080ti/4080ti etc

 

[Poneros]

You sound very fussy about reaching a certain FPS #, which is fine, but that does mean you'll probably have to spend that extra for the 2080S. Personally I'd say wait, I still think new GPUs will launch this year, AMD's if not Nvidia, and that's a 2080 ti jump or better anyway. I just find the 2080S to be disgustingly low value. It's honestly even worse than 2080 ti because at least that offers you the best performance available so the price premium is more justifiable. 2080S is like >£200 more expensive just for faster memory essentially and very few cores, over a 2070S. It's gross. And for 1440p in particular more mem bdw isn't that important because it's not really a high resolution.

 

[CuriousTomCat]

If the 3080ti is delayed a year then games developers will respond by not advancing progress to compensate so it doesn't matter.

Even if the 3080ti was delayed 10 years it wouldn't matter. Games developers would just hault progress so games will still run butter smooth. They won't release a game that suddenly requires 3x titans in SLI because GPU development stopped but game development continued.

Game development has always slowed down or speeded up to match GPU progress.

Just wait. It doesn't matter when the 3080ti gets released. Just wait.

 

[ALXAndy]

Don't do it because of CV. If you were thinking about doing it before that all happened, then do it.

I doubt very highly that the 3080Ti will even launch "at launch". They will probably release mid range cards first, as they always do, to catch out those who have to have the top end cards. They did it with the 20 series, they did it with the 10 series and they did it with the 9 series. I can't see them changing that strategy much.

Cards usually arrive during summer, with decent stocks in September. That is how AMD usually do it. However, that is very likely to be delayed. For more reasons than COVID. AMD have two consoles to meet expectations and orders for. IMO that is why their drivers were so crap for ages, because they were busy with other things.

Or, if you can afford to do it any way? then do it. You need to support companies right now, especially not those selling food and bog roll.

 

[SirPsychoZe0]

Even if the 3080ti was delayed 10 years it wouldn't matter. Games developers would just hault progress so games will still run butter smooth.

There are many, many things wrong with this statement. Not to point the finger for the sake of it, but you can't make a blanket statement that 'games will still run butter smooth' without making a hell of a lot of assumptions. To avoid writing a short essay in response, I will simply point to the most damning flaw: it is not game development that is pushing GPUs, but monitor hardware development. Monitors can now run games at 4 times the standard HD resolution and show over 2 times the frames via higher refresh rates. Anyone moving from a 1080p 60hz monitor to a 1440p 144hz monitor (which is a lot of people) suddenly requires 2 - 3 times the GPU power is they want to enjoy the benefits of their new monitor. I personally prefer sharper pictures and higher frame rates than I do the latest RTX/Lighting/Shader tech etc.

Don't do it because of CV. If you were thinking about doing it before that all happened, then do it.

I doubt very highly that the 3080Ti will even launch "at launch". They will probably release mid range cards first, as they always do, to catch out those who have to have the top end cards. They did it with the 20 series, they did it with the 10 series and they did it with the 9 series. I can't see them changing that strategy much.

Cards usually arrive during summer, with decent stocks in September. That is how AMD usually do it. However, that is very likely to be delayed. For more reasons than COVID. AMD have two consoles to meet expectations and orders for. IMO that is why their drivers were so crap for ages, because they were busy with other things.

Or, if you can afford to do it any way? then do it. You need to support companies right now, especially not those selling food and bog roll.

Thanks for this Andy - this was the kinda response I was looking for to help my thinking.

Was I thinking about it before? In a way yes, I have always been thinking that delaying my purchase was also delaying whatever enjoyment I get from running games at high resolution/FPS/settings.

Can I afford it? Yes I can, and as I reasoned in a post above, if you do the math on resale values etc. I reckon that I am paying an extra £250 for the benefit of better gaming now for the next year or so. A £1,000 2080 Ti probably has a useful life of 4 years, being £250 per year, so if you start to price GPUs at cost per year, then it seems more reasonable and palatable.

 

[ALXAndy]

I changed a Titan XP for a 2070 long before this was big news. Games have been a bit stagnant and I just fancied a change. I was going to either reuse it or possibly sell, but I had some luck so I paid it forward and sent it to a mate who's struggling with a 980ti. He doesn't game an awful lot but he encodes a lot lately so he was talking about an upgrade. Then it hit, his kid got sent home for coughing, his wife lost the job she'd just secured and so on.

Unlike many I'm supporting those I know.

Including OCUK, because this will hit caseking quite hard.

That's me, and I'm quite lucky to be in this situation. I'm usually not, but I had a huge windfall right as this all heated up. Which has saved me from myself being very anxious even on the best of days.