Hi-end processor recommendations

To add further, the modern AV amp for sure will sound better when switched to the new formats, than when it is decoding DD/DTS. But that is on a relative comparison. And speaks more of the relative poor performance of it's DD/DTS decoding and amplification. All of which are likely to be cost cut to afford the new chips to decode the latest format. Would the manufacture want to get the best out of the old, and show little improvement on the new ?

Does the new format sounds better because of the recording, mastering transfer and newer DAC, or because the format is loss less. IMO the format takes the smallest part in this equation. As several are saying, a compressed format is acceptable in music, a more demanding application, and many hear no difference. So why has movies become more demanding. That is pure marketing !

I'm not against progress, but it's normally for the market department to push new products, and pray on people insecurities of having to have the latest tech.

Surely to truly hear the ability of these new formats, you first need the rest of the system sorted first, then the absolute performance takes a step forward.

All this ignores music, again the old "high end" kit just romps off into the distance. I guess you pays ya money, and makes your choice.......but let the ear decide, not the brochure ;)

For reference, Linn AV5103 AV pre-amp (DD/DTS only) used cir £600, similar for 5 channel AV5125 power amp. The pair new around 5-5.5K. It was worth it's price just for music !!!!...................I'll get my coat ...;)
 
Yes i can see the point of well matched classy hardware adding great warmth/control and offering rich sounding movies. Surely though something like a £800-£1000 Yamaha/Denon that are renowned for having great control and seperation in their dolby/dts decoding combined with a quality power amps would be the best way to go.

For CDs etc stick to your upmarket DACs with your fancy CD players.
Why though some of you are against HDMI and AV amplifiers even if using it as a glorified switchbox and of course now with PCM lossless audio combined with your better amplification and speakers then you guys surely would reap the benifits even more than the average user.

Quite frankly this discussion of using lower quality source material (DD / DTS) played back on higher end decoding/amplification Vs PCM lossless audio on average gear shouldnt be the issue. As mentioned If you guys can notice a big difference between a lossless FLAC file to a typical 192kbs mp3 then sure as hell you will hear a difference between a 600kbs DVD to a 6mb Blu-ray on your systems.

Ive considered adding audiolab multichannel amplification to my system but have never been sure i would really notice much improvement, besides im happy enough with my 4600 yamaha's audio.

PS shimmyhill, did you get the 2700 for the price/offer i said was going? Have you been happy with it since compared to the Onkyo?
 
I guess I need convincing a movie sound track is that critical that it "needs" Loss less. One bang is much like another, once you have obtained a quality level anymore isn't noticed. Law of diminishing returns. Well sorted DTS, is good enough for that end ? Assuming you are getting the most out of it.
I'd quite like to try a HD player into my set-up. But it would need to use it's own on board decoding, output via phono leads. Any suggestions ?
 
See now what your doing guys........

Regarding my query ive just found an offer for an audiolab 8000x7 power amp.

RRP £1499.95
Offer £699,95

Can anyone explain if and by how much exactly this would benifit my Yamaha particulary as im only using Mission M51 speakers.

Is it a good or wise purchase?
 
Mr Latte said:
PS shimmyhill, did you get the 2700 for the price/offer i said was going? Have you been happy with it since compared to the Onkyo?
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I got one and paid less than the price you posted, bargain and it is a lovelly piece of kit. IMO it is a better amp than the 805/875 and runs much cooler - i am very happy with it indeed :D

I have been looking at poweramps for mine and hopefully will get to try a Parrasound 5 chan with it, a friend who has one said it will be night and day different. He went from flagship amps to flagship + power amp and said the step up was significant. He then went pre/power and again a big step was noticed. He had until recently an awesome meridian/classe combo and it was fantastic - truly the best sound combination i have heard from AV. He currently has Lexicon/para and it is stunning, a big step up from my 2700. I honestly think his sounds better on a DTS 1.5mb than mine on a PCM bluray, i imagine his via the tru-hd - analogue will sound better than DTS and will find out soon.

However i do have to limit my listenings to his setup as it gets costly ;)
 
Can only judge by my time with a Yam DSP-E800, as soon as you use it's own power amps, the SQ drops a lot.... Would seem if you power ALL of the speakers via separate power amps, the AV amp gets much better. I guess as the power supply is now dedicated to the pre section, and not having heavy demands made of it.
Sounds like a good route to take to me ;)
 
Gees you paid even less, great deal you got.
Ive read on Av Forums some have said the Yamaha sounds better in the decoding than the Onkyo, more detailed easier to pinpoint sounds.

Im really tempted to order this audiolab 8000x7 Says is their flagship av amp.
Your saying i will notice a big improvement, of course both in music and now in movies?

I assume all i need is to use cables between my Yamaha Pre Outs and the audiolab.
Volume will stll be controller via the Yamaha with no problems?
 
Ok youve got me curious, besides ive had enough of people like "mr james millar" putting down my Yamaha amplification (joking). Enough is enough i cant take anymore of you hifi hunchos telling me what im missing and shimmyhill your responsible too for this desperate action.

Heres the deal im going to buy the package....

Audiolab 8000AV with 8000x7 amplifier RRP £2400
Deal Price £999

Their charging £700 for the power amp alone so i reckon i can easily sell a brand new 8000AV preamp-processor for more than £300 particulary as their charging £600 for it with an original price of £999.

£450 seem reasonable?
 
I don't think those 7 channel Tag's have been well praised. Your Yamaha with a poweramp won't come close to say lexicon DC-2/MC-1 and identical poweramps. If you're on a budget Lexicon DC-2 is about £350, then pickup a Rotel 5 channel RB-985 Mk II, that's probably around £400.. it'll sound better than a £800 AV amp, and far better processing and power amp stages. Upgradable too...change processor/poweramps or add poweramps as your desire, ie add another 2 channel to get 7 channel, or combinations.

I'm using Lexicon MC-2 with 5 x Audiolab stereo poweramps, front three are bi-amped, 7 channel HT. Fantastic. I've got another amp that needs repaired so could do 10 channel :-P
 
Mr Latte said:
Ok youve got me curious, besides ive had enough of people like "mr james millar" putting down my Yamaha amplification (joking). Enough is enough i cant take anymore of you hifi hunchos telling me what im missing and shimmyhill your responsible too for this desperate action.
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:D i saw that deal....and quite a deal it is too by the looks of it.
 
Their charging £700 for the power amp alone so i reckon i can easily sell a brand new 8000AV preamp-processor for more than £300 particulary as their charging £600 for it with an original price of £999.
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Why on earth would you want a decent poweramp with crappy pre-amp/processing? Keep the two Audiolab/Tag together, and set fire to the Yamaha
 
Ok i was mid way to ordering this, aaarrrrghhhh damn .......

Are you as some ive read on AVF looking at the reviews and opinions of the 8000x7 as not so great because really owners of this type of gear spend thousands and have very high demands.

My plan was to use the Yamaha with the 8000x7 which has to be an improvement (but how big?) and then eventually sell off the Yamaha and go for the new 8000AP which will allow me to still enjoy HD PCM audio and offer better traditional Dolby/DTS decoding from dvds.

* I havnt just bought a 1080p projector to enjoy DVDs, i want to benifit from HD lossless audio and the brillance of 1080/24 picture.
Not really that convinced the 8000Av with a normal DTS soundtrack would better the Yamaha with 8000x7 using lossless.

Your saying ditch the Yamaha completly at this stage, mmmmm
 
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What about using two poweramps say a high quality 3 channel for front array, and something lesser for rears?

Not really that convinced the 8000Av with a normal DTS soundtrack would better the Yamaha with 8000x7 using lossless.
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I think it will, I've got Yamaha av amp and they're lousy (pre-amp/processing stage) As other posters have said- better quality kit with SD audio will sound better than lower quality system but higher quality codec. It's like comparing a Logitech 5500 PC system with FLAC, with a mid-end audio system with 320KPS MP3.
 
badbob

Hold a sec mate, the audiolab cant be that bad. compare it to other £700 amplifiers, not its £1500 RRP If i was to go with cyrus or cambridge audio probably in a similar price.

The other thing is it seems this 8000x7 is new and has had very little chance and is getting slated because its a cut down Chinese made remix of a TAG Mclaren unit.

Im not expecting it to equal such but from a upgrade point of view is what im interested in.
Also not wanting to risk 2nd hand gear sorry.
 
Mr Latte said:
So shall we ditch our AV amps together?
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well, as tempting as it sounds, im really very happy with my 805. looking inside that audiolab reminds me of just how much they charge for the good stuff. it might cost £1.5k RRP, but it sure as hell isnt £1.5k's worth of components.



what i really want, is a 7 channel poweramp in kit form. £400 worth of components. i could do that easily and in all honestly, it would probably decimate everything under a couple of grand lol. i've always wanted to build a poweramp.
 
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I've never been a fan of Audiolab, old or new !!!! :( ..
The old is said to be better, but always sounded, flat, grey, boring and lifeless, had no soul or musicality... Well built though.
The new improves this how ?

You "Need" 7 channels, what you live in a church ??? ;)

Hmm, buy up 2nd hand Linn amps, the you can sell them for the same money if you don't like them !!! ......(well I have to keep trying and plugging ;)
 
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