Man of Honour
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All the cars I've converted to HID have never failed an MOT.
hid headlight question
- Thread starter Matt82
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I have a 55w 6000k kit in my 1999 Saab 9-5 without projectors and it sailed through its MOT 2 weeks ago. The tester did comment about them not turning off lol. Something about the way Saab lights work mean if I turn them off while the engine is running they strobe rather than going off, I have to switch the engine off and then they go off, its very odd but fun sometimes.
Only time I have had people flash at me was down country lanes where an incline in the road meant they dazzled another driver, what did they guy expect? As a car goes over a hill there is going to be a second where their lights are aimed directly at you.
Only time I have had people flash at me was down country lanes where an incline in the road meant they dazzled another driver, what did they guy expect? As a car goes over a hill there is going to be a second where their lights are aimed directly at you.
Man of Honour
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To be frank it's worse with big 4x4s tend to shine directly into my car/rear view mirror/wing mirror anyway, so for a slight moment when you go over a hump people need to realise that light doesn't really bend (well it can, but you know what I mean 
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As already pointed out that requirement isn't retrospective.
Also it's not that hard to fit headlight washers to an older vehicle, it's just a couple of washer jets after all, assuming your car didn't come with them as standard. My cheapo Volvo has them, and so does my GF's 1994 200SX S13. FWIW she's found some HID bulbs that have a little motor in them to adjust the height and is currently working on a system to take a reading from the rear suspension when the car is started and level the headlights. I'm not convinced it's actually necessary to do this personally, but I guess it would create less MOT hassle.
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Did you read the thread?
Soldato
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So many cars that had factory fitted xenon lamps came minus projectors and even washers in some case that are pointless anyhow.
A few
Mk1 Mini
XC90
R34 Skyline
DC5
Accord Type R
A few
Mk1 Mini
XC90
R34 Skyline
DC5
Accord Type R
Wait, what? They had Xenons in 1959?
You can also add my 1999 Subaru Legacy to that list, factory fit HIDs, no washers, manual leveling via a dial next to the fog light switches.
So thinking HIDs would be nice 
Soldato
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Yes but on those cars the reflectors were designed for the Xenons.
I agree the washers are pointless, what are they meant to do, cos they aint much cop at washing the crud off the lamp!
Not necessarily, the washers on my folks old Impreza were pretty damn powerful, like mini pressure washers they were!
grill and headlight surrounds now painted satin black. the first thing ive ever painted and it came out almost perfect
gonna screw it all back together tonight. ive not bought the HID set yet, im waiting to see whether i can live with the "twin head light" look at the moment cos its pretty damn ugly
gonna screw it all back together tonight. ive not bought the HID set yet, im waiting to see whether i can live with the "twin head light" look at the moment cos its pretty damn ugly
Lopéz. The DFT statement is based on fact and was just provided and a information sheet. Though people are often mislead by the working to think it is just opinion. You can read though the relevant legislation from www.opsi.gov.uk for the UK side of things www.unece.org
and http://www.vca.gov.uk/index.asp. The DFT also publish similar articles on subjects such as speeding and driving whilst uninsured.
As for laws there are already tried and tested that already exist governing vehicle lighting. These apply the same to retrofit HIDs as they do to any other. Both the Road Traffic Act and Road Safety Act cover these on multiple fronts.
I don't really understand what part is grey but if you wish to say what part you are unclear on I will try my best to explain for you.
Very good point and very true that a vehicle will only have to pass its years sake requirements. Though you may wish to look at the regulations a bit closer as there is a lot more to them. For example ECE98 is actually from 1995 but you may wish to look at 48 anyhow. Also the ECE regulations require all retrofit of approved parts to be type approved for there application. To going by the ECE regs you can not retrofit anything with out it passing current standards. However yes many old cars did indeed come with no washers or auto levelling but unless your retrofit HID system was type tested at the time those regulations were in force you will now have to comply with today's standards.
And now you get into the real murky area of different rules applying depending on when the retrofit was done and proving when it was done. It's like the joy of dodgy numberplates (ie. ones without the dealer crap printed on them) all over again.
What if the HIDs were retrofitted onto my 1993 car immediately after purchase? If I then replace the bulbs due to them blowing does that count as a retrofit or just maintenance, what if I fit a different brand of bulbs? What if I switch back to halogen for a day while I wait for new bulbs in the post, does it suddenly count as a retrofit.
What if in 1999 there were two models of car, one with HIDs (That don't comply with the 2005 regs) and one without, if I swap out the complete headlight assembly with the HID equipped version isn't that suddenly illegal because it's retrofit even though there will be thousands of identical configurations out on our roads.
Plus there's the whole thing where the retrofit bulbs are type approved but the headlight lenses are not approved for HID use, what if the car is a grey import then the lenses aren't approved for halogen use either but somehow that's ok. (you can probably see where I'm going with this since I'm in the middle of importing a JDM car that has projector lights). Hell what if the previous owner in Japan retrofitted the HIDs in 1994 and that was compliant with their laws the whole time?
What about my GF's 200SX, it has headlight washers, are there special requirements introduced in 1995 that define what a headlight washer must do and since hers were factory fit in 1994 do they need to meet those requirements, do they suddenly need to meet those requirements if HIDs are retrofitted (FWIW she's replacing the stock headlights with twin projector headlights that ARE type approved for use with HIDs)
The whole thing is a gigantic confusing mess that's nigh on impossible to figure out or enforce and the things that it bans aren't always particularly useful to ban.
Also why is no-one moaning about the current trend for LED equivalents of stop/tail bulbs and the like, surely they aren't E marked either?
What if the HIDs were retrofitted onto my 1993 car immediately after purchase? If I then replace the bulbs due to them blowing does that count as a retrofit or just maintenance, what if I fit a different brand of bulbs? What if I switch back to halogen for a day while I wait for new bulbs in the post, does it suddenly count as a retrofit.
What if in 1999 there were two models of car, one with HIDs (That don't comply with the 2005 regs) and one without, if I swap out the complete headlight assembly with the HID equipped version isn't that suddenly illegal because it's retrofit even though there will be thousands of identical configurations out on our roads.
Plus there's the whole thing where the retrofit bulbs are type approved but the headlight lenses are not approved for HID use, what if the car is a grey import then the lenses aren't approved for halogen use either but somehow that's ok. (you can probably see where I'm going with this since I'm in the middle of importing a JDM car that has projector lights). Hell what if the previous owner in Japan retrofitted the HIDs in 1994 and that was compliant with their laws the whole time?
What about my GF's 200SX, it has headlight washers, are there special requirements introduced in 1995 that define what a headlight washer must do and since hers were factory fit in 1994 do they need to meet those requirements, do they suddenly need to meet those requirements if HIDs are retrofitted (FWIW she's replacing the stock headlights with twin projector headlights that ARE type approved for use with HIDs)
The whole thing is a gigantic confusing mess that's nigh on impossible to figure out or enforce and the things that it bans aren't always particularly useful to ban.
Also why is no-one moaning about the current trend for LED equivalents of stop/tail bulbs and the like, surely they aren't E marked either?
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You are missing one big point. You are using ECE regulations to justify a retrofit HID system and that is fine and correct. However by ECE regulations all such things have to go through laboratory testing to get approval for each vehicle type they are fitted to. This is done to the current standard of the date the tests are done and not the date of the car. Its is the ECE way everything is approved as a package. No approval no road legal. Generally in England this does not effect us as our regulations are quite open and in general allow a lot more freedom. But when it comes to HID they are not allowed by our regulations so if you want them you have to comply with the European way.
But to your point of swapping headlights from one car to another they yes that is fine if they are the same car. These days you can get a RX8 with or without HIDs. You can quire legally swap the lights from a HID car to a none HID car because they are already approved for this application. Same applies with older vehicles as long as your swapping to the same type of vehicle your fine.
You scenario with the car from 1993 with HIDs. In the UK in 1993 that would have been illegal so its just as illegal now as it was then. If the car was from outside the UK the car would have had to been modified to comply to UK standards when it was imported. This comment also applies to your comment a grey imports.
You are correct about tail light also having the be to standard. I suspect in time people probably will start complaining if people are selling ones that are not approved and are stupidly dimmer or brighter resulting in problems with other road users.
But to your point of swapping headlights from one car to another they yes that is fine if they are the same car. These days you can get a RX8 with or without HIDs. You can quire legally swap the lights from a HID car to a none HID car because they are already approved for this application. Same applies with older vehicles as long as your swapping to the same type of vehicle your fine.
You scenario with the car from 1993 with HIDs. In the UK in 1993 that would have been illegal so its just as illegal now as it was then. If the car was from outside the UK the car would have had to been modified to comply to UK standards when it was imported. This comment also applies to your comment a grey imports.
You are correct about tail light also having the be to standard. I suspect in time people probably will start complaining if people are selling ones that are not approved and are stupidly dimmer or brighter resulting in problems with other road users.
BMWWW your wasting your time
your long winded and argumentative posts proove nothing other than what was already known
Retrofit HIDs are a legal grey area, and this is why they are still trading and not being shut down left right and centre, like the Showplate manufacturers were when "clear" legislation came in stating anything other than standard was illegal.
They mostly all moved to ireland mind, but thats beside the point
your long winded and argumentative posts proove nothing other than what was already known
Retrofit HIDs are a legal grey area, and this is why they are still trading and not being shut down left right and centre, like the Showplate manufacturers were when "clear" legislation came in stating anything other than standard was illegal.
They mostly all moved to ireland mind, but thats beside the point
What did he expect ? Not to be dangerously dazzled by your HIDS. This is why they need self levelling kit, because they ARE so much brighter and dazzling than filament type bulbs.
People can argue the toss over the legal grey area, but the fact remains that if you fit HIDs without all the precautions they require to remain safe you are a selfish idiot.
A self leveling kit will do nothing to stop your lights (halogen or HID) dazzling someone as you come over the crest of a hill. Said kit does not dynamically adjust the light as you go over bumps and hills. All it does is compensate for the fact that if your car is heavily loaded for one trip the back end will be sat lower and thus the lights will point into the air.
This is why I wasn't too bothered about the lack of a self leveller on my Legacy, it had a little knob to adjust the headlight level and the few times when I was actually carrying something heavy (typically a couple of 4U servers on the back seat) I'd just align the headlights down to compensate, the result was exactly the same as if there was some automatic kit to do it.
And Bmwwww's comments do make sense, though they're not consistent with my own experience since my old 1999 Legacy had HIDs, no washers and manual levelers and as for my new car, who knows whether it had a HID option or not? I'm still amused that the previous owner of the Legacy retrofitted halogens as he was a cheapskate and then it failed it's MOT on this, wasn't amused at the time though, not at 80 quid per bulb!