Hiking Boots Advice

Khrest

Khrest

Khrest

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26 Jul 2003
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Loughborough
Right, I am doing the Three Peaks in July and last month I bought a pair of £90 Scarpa ZG65 GTX boots. These are rated highly in most categories and one US review comments on how waterproof they are, to the extent that the reviewer stood in a stream for 20 minutes and only got a small amount of water in the boot.

I must be doing something wrong (if it's possible to do wrong with a hiking boot). Because twice now after only 15 minutes walking through wet grass the tops of my feet are soaking wet.

What am I missing here? To what extent do other hikers here find that a waterproof boot is waterproof? I understand these things have limits, but I would have to regard my pair as merely splash proof, rather than waterproofed.

Do any of these spray on coatings actually work to improve the water resistance?

Hope somebody here can help.
 
Is it definitely water leaking in and not just condensation due to lack of breathability? If you stand in a stream can you feel the water flowing in?
 
When boots have leaked on me before, my toes have usually felt "squishy" in the socks, and the inner soles to go spongy also.

Tops would suggest sweat or the grass getting in around your ankles and dripping down, or through the tongue to me.

Not sure about the boots, but do you have to do something to the tongue to make it sealed perhaps?
 
As already mentioned, it could be that it's sweat you're feeling. Are they Gore-Tex (other similar) lined? If it just has a basic waterproof lining (unlikely considering the price) then it could be that they're just not breathing and your feet are melting. Another possibility is socks. Are you using good quality wicking socks? If not, again, your feet could just be sweating a lot.

Using a waterproofing treatment on the boots is also important. It helps repel the water and also keeps them breathable if they get really wet - because otherwise you end up with a layer of water on top of the leather and the sweat vapor can't escape.

Also, if it's on both feet you're experiencing this then it's most likely not a fault with the boots. I've seen god-knows how many pairs of boots come back that "leak", and of the few that do actually turn out to be faulty it's always just one boot with a manufacturing error. I can honestly say I've never, ever, seen both boots in a pair to be faulty.

EDIT: Sorry, I just realised you said they were GTX already.
 
It almost certainly won't be water from the outside unless it is water dripping over the top (unlikely). If it truly is not sweat then you may want to take the boots back as they will be faulty.

20 minutes seems awefully short to get water in your boots or is that just me? I've had my boots in 3-4 inches of water for a couple of hours and not had leaks. :confused:
 
I'll just answer those excellent replies in general:

I'm sure it's water because the symptom is that the top of my foot starts to feel cold. Removing the boot shows that the top of my sock along the foot is wet, definitely not sweaty (esp as I am wearing liners to keep the sweat in). Both times it has happened shortly after I started walking in the wet, not when I was walking along the road beforehand.

I would say it is coming in around the lace area. No I dont wear gaitors but it's definitely coming from lower than the ankle area.

I wouldn't dare stand in a stream to test, not when walking through wet grass for half an hour leaves my socks absolutely saturated.

The right boot is worse than the left, but both are letting it in.

This is a link for the boots themselves. They are allegedly Goretex lined.

Scarpa Website

What worries me now is that the inside will be getting ruined by such an amount of water ingress.

I think I am going to return them to the retailer and see what their 'experts' say...
 
Err, the socks are no brand thick woolen ones off the local market and the liners are 'proper' hiking liners, but again, I couldn't remember the brand.

I just don't see how a boot can be faulty unless the whole batch is, which makes me think it's me, but then what else can you do, other than lace it up tightly?
 
Get yourself a pair of decent hiking socks (I'm a huge fan of 1000 mile ones) and ditch the liners entirely, then try them and see how they go.

Are they solid tongued (is the tongue part of the boot itself)? If not then they'll struggle to keep the water out. Also how long was the long grass, was it over the top of your boots (the water could be coming in from the top).
 
yeah the tongue is 'part' of the boot so there should in theory be a watertight seal all along.

Although the grass started at ankle level and finished at thigh level (bad choice of route after a rain shower!), the coldness started at the tops of my toes, which were noticeably the first area to get wet when the grass was still shorter.

I do need to get some 'proper' socks and I'll probably do that when I talk to the retailer. I may have a hike round first though so that I can show them the problem, complete with wet smelly socks :D
 
I have a pair of Zamberlan goretex i got for about £45. I have stood in puddles so that the bottom part of the boot was totally submerged (over the laces) and not got my feet wet. Something is definitely a miss there, but you are going to have to be a bit more scientific about the testing if you want to know why.

Fill a bowl with a few inches of water and get stood in it to test.
 
Trainers with plastic bags tied around your feet would surely suffice?

Just kidding! Post pictures when you come back though :D
 
As suggested, just got scientific on these mothers ;-)

Bowl of water up to the second lace level, after 4 minutes my right foot was getting wet just below the ankle and the boot was letting damp in at the top of the tongue. This was better than the previous night's performance and had me hopeful that the seepage had indeed come through from the top.

Sadly, the left boot had let water through in 90 seconds :eek: . An area around my big toe roughly 2 inches across was wet when I removed the boot. I can't detect where it's coming from although the inside liner is wet, but this is well below tongue level suggesting something is certainly up in the join between sole and upper perhaps.

Anyway, definitely taking them back after that little test.
 
There is definatly something wrong with them, although it is a little strange that both boots let water in. :confused: You should easily just get a straight swap when you explain the problem so you should be ok. :)
 
Sounds like you got a "Friday afternoon at the factory" pair :)

To be honest, leaking water after 4 mins totally submerged doesn't sound too off. Gore-Tex isn't actually 100% waterproof - it can't be by its very nature. The microscopic pores will let water through if they're submerged for long, or if there's some pressure added into the equation. I would not expect to stand in a river for 20 mins and have dry feet...despite what a review might say....that's what they make wellies for :)

When camping/hiking equipment says "waterproof" it really depends on what it's expected to be doing - there is no universal rating as such. It's more like "waterproof within the limits of what the product was designed for".

Of course, if one shoe leaks much faster than the other then your experiment does point to a duff shoe. But it still might not explain why the tops of your feet are wet - that could still be another issue.
 
As you say no fabric is 100% waterproof but most of what else you said isn't correct. There is an almost universal 'waterproof' rating, and anything calling itself 'waterproof' has to be over a certain rating. They actually have two. One PSI (which I didn't realise until I just checked I was correct on google), which tells you what water pressure it can withstand without letting water in, and another which tells you the amount or rain that has to fall in a 24 hour period before you get wet (the most usual one which would usually be in the form of '10k' or '18k' which is around that of goretex). You may be interested to know that goretex and other decent fabrics only let in a tiny amount of water before they rip in tests that are used to rate them. :)

As I said before I have had my Goretex boots in a puddle in the bottom of a boat for around two hours and not had any water issues. 4 minutes is way off.
 
"universal rating" was a bad choice of words on my part. I meant that there isn't a rating that all products use across the board consistently......tents often use a hydrostatic head rating but some might say just "waterproof two season" instead and you have to search (often in vain) for the actual numbers as scientifically tested. Sympatex is actually "more" waterproof than Gore-Tex - although in "real life" there's probably no noticeable difference. Then there's Gore-Tex XCR, which (I believe) is less waterproof but more breathable.

beh said:
I believe "waterproof" fabrics have to be able to withstand a certain pressure of water without leaking.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, but when your average joe reads "waterproof" he thinks he can pitch his tent at the bottom of the Atlantic ocean and not get wet. A mountaineering tent is roughly twice as "waterproof" as a basic camping tent.

When it comes to footwear it gets more complicated because there's a layer of other material directly on top of it. If the leather becomes totally saturated (as it would not that long after standing in water) then it will effect the way the Gore-Tex performs.

If I'm wrong then blame the Sympatex rep who told me this stuff :p
 
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Thanks for all the replies, thought I might find some handy advice.

I'll let you know later what happens today when I take them back.
 
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