Hisense TV Audio Output Help/Recommendations please (Update 30/11/2023)

[malccy]

Hi,

decided the other day to get some nice speakers for my TV audio but have found my Panasonic SC UX100 CD/Bluetooth receiver has no inputs for my Hisense H55B7100UK TV to connect it for audio output.

I'm not that knowledgeable about audio equipment but see the TV's manual recommends an ARC receiver. I can see the TV also has a 'digital out'.

I was wondering whether I should maybe buy something like the Arylic B50 which has an ARC input (cheapest option for ARC I have found) or should I look for a cheap used amplifier/receiver?

My experience with spdif in the past via a tv to a soundbar was not good and audio was always slightly out of time with the action on the TV.

I only need a stereo output, but would like something less than £150 with good quality sound that I can possibly connect my blu-ray player to as well.

Would really appreciate some guidance and advice. Thanks

 

[lucid]

According to the specs for your Pana system, it has an AUX input via a 3.5mm jack. This is probably on the front, so it might not be suitable aesthetically, but there is a way to get sound in. Since you only want stereo in any event (existing or new gear) then this socket ticks that box.

What's required is an optical to stereo analogue convertor. This turns the digital signalling from the optical out into something that works for the Panasonic. They're around tye £8~£18 mark depending on whether they include a wall wart power plug.

The problem with audio sync doesn't get solved if you use an ARC connection. ARC is affected just the same as optical, so there's something going on despite the type of connection.

The problem is caused by a couple of things. The first is a problem with the way signals are broadcast and decoded. Digital TV broadcasts use AAC audio and it is formatted in a 5.1 layout even if the signal is stereo. With a stereo signal then, the centre and the surround channels are empty. If the programme is listed as having DD sound then all the channels are populated.

The TV decodes the signal according to the preferences you set in the menus (Auto / Dolby / PCM), and in the case of having an ARC connection, those settings can be overriden due to the HDMI handshake. In simpler terms, you might try to force the TV to send everying out as DD5.1, but the TV and sound bar have already negotiated and seen that the bar has stereo speakers, so it's pointless sending DD5.1 surround signals. There are some exceptions to this, but things are already getting way more complicated than you imagined when you started you thread.

The point here is that all this audio processing takes time. The longer it takes then the bigger the potential for a delay between picture and sound.

Something else that can mess up sound sync is the TV picture processing.

If you're a gamer, you'll already be very much aware of image lag. This is where what you're seeing onscreen is already a fraction of a second behind what the console or PC has sent. The result is you player misses the ball, your driver never hits the apex, your soldier gets shot.

Gamers know (or should know) to put their TV into Game mode on the picture presets. This turns off all the picture processing guff that adds delay. Now, you might not want to run your ordinary TV viewing in game mode, but it is a useful test to see if the sync improves when there's less processing delay.

Phew, that took some typing.

Lip sync improves when setting the sound decoding to PCM stereo. This is the same for Optical and ARC. Loads of folk who bought Sonos sound bars found this out. This is inspite of HDMI ARC supposedly including automatic compensation to keep lip sync minimised.

ARC does have a couple of advantages over optical. First, you can only get Dolby Atmos with an ARC connection. Optical isn't allowed to carry the signal. That's a bit academic when you only want a stereo signal.

Second, it's automation. HDMI Control (CEC) is required to be switched on in order for HDMI ARC to work. This means, whether you want it to or not, your ARC-connected sound bar or AV receiver will switch on and off with the TV, and whatever remote you're using to control the TV volume will then change the sound bar volume instead.

Let's try to summarise all this:

- ARC and optical deliver the same sound quality in stereo

- ARC and new sound gear doesn't fix lip sync issues, but switching to PCM stereo often helps

- ARC is good for automation, but you can't bypass it

- play around with the picture settings to see if that helps with lip sync delay

- a 3.5mm AUX input works fine for stereo audio

- optical can be changed to analogue stereo (AUX) with a small USB-powered convertor at under £20

You can buy a sound bar by all means. It won't fix lip sync issues, but you might be able to work around it by using the tips above. You will get the convenience of HDMI Control though.

 

[malccy]

Thank you, Lucid, for taking the time to reply so thoroughly.
I can see in the TV's sound setting the PCM option listed, so that should help if I go the ARC route.

Do you think the Arylic B50 is the best/cheapest quality option to go for regarding an ARC receiver, as looking around, many are very expensive?

I feel buying a big amplifier/receiver for my needs is going overboard, but a small simple thing like the Arylic B50 may fulfil my requirements.

Do you agree or do you recommend anything similar which is better?

 

[lucid]

Do you think the Arylic B50 is the best/cheapest quality option

I don't know if you could class it as the best quality, but I think you'd be hard pushed to find something that ticks as many boxes for similar money, so I can definitely see the appeal.

The HDMI ARC feature may or may not work reliably. By that I mean you might find yourself having to switch the amp on and off with it's own remote. After that, volume should work okay. You might also want to keep an eye on the support forum about firmware updates.

What speakers are you planning to run with the amp. That could be important.

I read a comment in the support forum from a chap with some Dali Zensor bookshelf speakers. He needed (or wanted) more volume from the amp. The Zensor 1 are fairly typical of £200-ish bookshelf speakers. They're 6 Ohm and moderately sensitive at roughly 86dB/W/m. A genuine 50W per channel amp running at full tilt would be capable of creating a risk of some hearing damage within 30 minutes if sitting 10ft from the speakers. It could be that the guy had a very large room, or was sitting a long way off, or the source he was using wasn't putting enough signal into the amp to start with. Or maybe he just like the sound incredibly loud. Whatever the reason, a 50W amp should have been plenty, if... it's a genuine 50W.

Incidentally, even doubling the amp power to 100W wouldn't have much of an impact on the sound level, so the guy was barking up the wrong tree. To get louder requires better sensitivity from the speakers. Changing from 86dB to 90dB speakers makes the sound louder than going from 50W to 100W in the amp power.

This brings us back to your speakers, if you find that you're struggling for sound level then the sensitivity of your speakers could be a factor. If it's those Panasonic speakers, they don't give a sensitivity figure for them. You're probably going to have to give it a whirl, then evaluate from there.

 

[malccy]

Appreciate again your helpful reply Lucid -thank you.

I've owned the Panasonic SC UX-100 for a few years with some speakers I got from a famous UK pawn shop chain. I have hardly used it but wanting to change the ugly speakers for something better has then taken me down this route of wanting better audio from my tv.

So, the other day I managed to get a pair of Q Acuoustics 3020i's on an auction site for what I believe to be a reasonable price £141. They do look great but have noticed that plugging them into the UX-100 they do not sound that 'full' if that makes sense. This could be just me imagining it, or it could be the poor output from the UX-100.

The Arylic 50 from what I have read does have a few weird glitches and often requires the old 'switching off and on again' fixing and some customer reviews on rainforest mention firmware update fixes but like you say it does however offer me the most tick boxes.

 

[lucid]

The 3020i not sounding 'full' with the output from the UX-100 does make sense. The type of power amplifier inside the Panasonic system is a Class-D, the same as the Arylic. But before you panic, Class-D can be designed for sound quality (see Fosi V3) or just for low cost and low power consumption as you'll find in those budget Class-D T-amps on eBay, and in the all-in-one surround sound kits, and in small shelf system stereo gear. It' not so much the technology that limits the sound performance as the design objectives.

The budget-focused designs have a lot of noise from the power supply. It's above our hearing threshold, but it still affects the audio performance. The amp stages themselves use a lot of digital signal processing to move signals from analogue to digital and back to analogue again for the output. There are chips that are good for this and there are chips that are cheap for this. Somewhere between is a sliding scale. What we don't yet have is a world where all such chips are both good and cheap. No matter how low in price the good ones get, there'll always been customers for the cheaper chips that don't sound as good.

Class-D can be stunning. There are brands such as BelCanto and Primare that show what the tech can do. It's also used in designs from higher-end brands such as ATI, Rotel and NAD to name just a few. The catch is it costs a lot to do that.

Then there are all the middle ranking class D amps such as the Fosi and also the amps inside things such as smart speakers. Love it or loath it as a brand, Sonos produces pretty reasonable performance from its class D amps inside its smart speakers, sound bars and standalone amps.

Cheap Class D sounds thin, overdamps, sterile and uninvolving. But most of that is masked by the poor speakers that come with all-in-one home cinema kits and shelf stereos. Once you put better speakers with them, they throw a magnifying glass on the sound. It'll be interesting to see what happens when you compare the Arylic to the Panasonic.

 

[malccy]

It looks like Arylic 50 it is. I presume the ARC connection HDMI cable is just a standard HDMI cable?

Is there anything else I need or need to know?

 

[lucid]

It looks like Arylic 50 it is. I presume the ARC connection HDMI cable is just a standard HDMI cable?

Is there anything else I need or need to know?

It needs to be a cable listed as 'with Ethernet', so it's a High Speed HDMI with Ethernet cable.

High Speed is what we've been using for the past 15 years with 1080p, so nothing too fancy there. The 'with Ethernet' thing is a little more recent, say the past 8 years or so. Again, nothing groundbreaking, but it is important as the one pin wired for Ethernet is the same connection used for ARC.

Incidentally, Ethernet via HDMI hasn't yet been used by any manufacturers even though the feature is available.

What you don't need is anything designed for 4K. The cable won't be carrying any video picture, The audio is going via one pin out of 20, and that's about all it is doing.

 

[malccy]

Did not know about HDMI Ethernet. You really have been very helpful Lucid, thank you for all the help and time you have given.

 

[malccy]

Have received the Arylic B50 today as well as an ARC (HDMI with Ethernet) cable and after some faffing about with the Bluetooth App and updating its firmware I can say that it is a pretty neat device and does what I wanted it to. The thing that I was worried about most after my soundbar experience a few months ago where the sound from the soundbar was never be in-sync with the TV but this time all is good.

This post apart from recommending the Arylic B50 to anyone else who wants a simple ARC amp for their TV to speaker setup is to thank Lucid again for all his helpful replies. Thanks for taking time to help Lucid.