HMS Illustrious sets sail to scrapyard

physichull · 7 Dec 2016 at 17:56

For me, its not this ship but her sistership HMS Invincible that should have had a more dignified send-off or effort to have saved her. Most famously, or infamously, depending on which side you are on, the Invince fought in the Falklands conflict and was invaluable in providing a base for Harrier aircraft.

My cousin served on the Invincible throughout the 90s and as a young kid I got taken out of school by my parents to go on the ship during a crew members "family day". Super exciting! I was around 10 years old and we got practically free roam of the ship. We set sail and went around the Isle of Wight, during which we went to the flight deck, mess decks, hangers, the bridge (where we met the captain and had our photos taken, much to the embarrassment of my cousin! I think it was Captain Roy Clare). Then, as if all that wasn't enough, we stood outside, on top of the bridge and watched two Lynx helicopters take off and then two Harriers went off down the ski-ramps, followed by a low -flight pass of the ship. My cousin also lost her Invincible hat that day when my young sister was wearing it on the flight deck, it blew off her head in the wind, went skipping across the flight deck, over the safety netting and into the sea!

I will NEVER forget that day.

Diddums · 7 Dec 2016 at 19:10

That does sound like a pretty sweet day :cool:

zola25 · 7 Dec 2016 at 19:22

Roar87 said:
They are one of the best anti-air destroyers in the world and they're great at their job, but missiles aren't 100% effective. It's better to have jets intercept them before you have to rely on missiles.

Very true, it's just a crying shame the Type 45's have virtually no surface-to-surface capability. Although a Type 23 could keep company with it's Harpoons.

Aircraft are often needed to identify targets before taking action too, something not possible with missiles. In fact the Royal Navy very nearly shot down a Brazilian airliner with a Sea Dart whilst en route to the Falklands.

Stolly · 7 Dec 2016 at 19:59

zola25 said:
Very true, it's just a crying shame the Type 45's have virtually no surface-to-surface capability. Although a Type 23 could keep company with it's Harpoons.

Aircraft are often needed to identify targets before taking action too, something not possible with missiles. In fact the Royal Navy very nearly shot down a Brazilian airliner with a Sea Dart whilst en route to the Falklands.

Exactly this. A future conflict may have rules of engagement imposed by the politicians that requires visual ID. No government wishes to repeat the USS Vincennes incident.

jsmoke · 7 Dec 2016 at 20:02

How was it meaningless, and the billions are not thrown down the toilet, they go into people pockets. Got to keep the cycle going somehow.

Uhtred · 7 Dec 2016 at 20:24

Housey said:
It would have been great to see it turned into another Intrepid style museum on a coastal port somewhere so kids could have seen it and also seen examples of our air wings over the years. For me the biggest crime when it comes to naval decommissioning is that we no longer possess one example of a Battleship or Battlecruiser. Makes Housey sad

I find it incredibly sad that there aren't more museum ships around the country

Dis86 · 7 Dec 2016 at 20:29

Stolly said:
Exactly this. A future conflict may have rules of engagement imposed by the politicians that requires visual ID. No government wishes to repeat the USS Vincennes incident.

Dunno like, something tells me Russia doesn't exactly give a flying crap.

nightmare99 · 7 Dec 2016 at 20:32

My cousin served on the Invincible throughout the 90s and as a young kid I got taken out of school by my parents to go on the ship during a crew members "family day". Super exciting! I was around 10 years old and we got practically free roam of the ship. We set sail and went around the Isle of Wight, during which we went to the flight deck, mess decks, hangers, the bridge (where we met the captain and had our photos taken, much to the embarrassment of my cousin! I think it was Captain Roy Clare). Then, as if all that wasn't enough, we stood outside, on top of the bridge and watched two Lynx helicopters take off and then two Harriers went off down the ski-ramps, followed by a low -flight pass of the ship. My cousin also lost her Invincible hat that day when my young sister was wearing it on the flight deck, it blew off her head in the wind, went skipping across the flight deck, over the safety netting and into the sea!

I loved these, my father served in the Navy all of his life and we went on quite a few of these when we were kids (can remember walking around one of the carrier's flight decks), also had a spin round the Solent on HMS Gloucester whilst having lunch in the captains mess. Good times.

Orionaut · 7 Dec 2016 at 20:37

Roar87 said:
They are one of the best anti-air destroyers in the world and they're great at their job, but missiles aren't 100% effective. It's better to have jets intercept them before you have to rely on missiles.

And it is better to have the Missiles intercept them before you have to use the Vulcans

I knew somebody many years ago who had served in the Falklands and his defining memory was standing at the railings of his ship (Where there had been hastily installed some sort of heavy machine gun (Not quite a duck tape job, but close!)) wearing nothing but his Boots and his Y fronts firing at incoming Argie aircraft.

(And he was a Cook!)

Ahh, the stuff they never show you in the War movies.

izzop · 7 Dec 2016 at 20:47

Orionaut said:
And it is better to have the Missiles intercept them before you have to use the Vulcans

I knew somebody many years ago who had served in the Falklands and his defining memory was standing at the railings of his ship (Where there had been hastily installed some sort of heavy machine gun (Not quite a duck tape job, but close!)) wearing nothing but his Boots and his Y fronts firing at incoming Argie aircraft.

(And he was a Cook!)

Ahh, the stuff they never show you in the War movies.

Sounds like you're thinking of John Leake, who was a NAAFI Manager on HMS Ardent. Through his actions he was awarded the DSM.

John Leake (NAAFI Manager)

Story covered by the Daily Fail: -

John Leake Services Medals

Orionaut · 7 Dec 2016 at 20:55

izzop said:
Sounds like you're thinking of John Leake, who was a NAAFI Manager on HMS Ardent. Through his actions he was awarded the DSM.

John Leake (NAAFI Manager)

Story covered by the Daily Fail: -

John Leake Services Medals

Don't think so, Chap I knew was known locally as "Badger". (SW Surrey)

It is possible I have mixed up two stories, but the call to action wearing underwear is a definite. (I am sure it actually happened quite a lot if you think about it)

Amp34 · 7 Dec 2016 at 20:57

The government really need to preserve more ships than they do. So many iconic ships have ended up scrapped - I get the impression there is a concerted effort not to preserve a lot of them as they seem to scrap them before anyone even has the chance to raise money to keep them.

It would be great to have a battleship preserved like the US navy do (as an example).

I also question why the Royal navy seem to comission ships with such short service lives. A prime example being HMS Ocean, going to be scrapped after about 20 years! The US carriers are expected to last up to 100 years (with upgrades etc).

izzop · 7 Dec 2016 at 21:01

Orionaut said:
Don't think so, Chap I knew was known locally as "Badger". (SW Surrey)

It is possible I have mixed up two stories, but the call to action wearing underwear is a definite. (I am sure it actually happened quite a lot if you think about it)

Oh, I'm sure it did happen a lot during the conflict and you're probably thinking of the right one.

Just the manning of the machine gun led me to think of John Leake.

izzop · 7 Dec 2016 at 21:07

Amp34 said:
The government really need to preserve more ships than they do. So many iconic ships have ended up scrapped - I get the impression there is a concerted effort not to preserve a lot of them as they seem to scrap them before anyone even has the chance to raise money to keep them.

It would be great to have a battleship preserved like the US navy do (as an example).

I also question why the Royal navy seem to comission ships with such short service lives. A prime example being HMS Ocean, going to be scrapped after about 20 years! The US carriers are expected to last up to 100 years (with upgrades etc).

I totally agree, the shelf life of Ocean is just staggering and I don't think she's the only one like that.

They just either don't think ahead, or more often than not can't seem to get value for money when it comes to purchases.

I served on board an RFA in the early 90's, RFA Fort Grange, later renamed - but that's a whole other story! She was laid down in '73, launched in '76 and she's still going and due to be until 2024!

Dis86 · 7 Dec 2016 at 21:15

izzop said:
I totally agree, the shelf life of Ocean is just staggering and I don't think she's the only one like that.

They just either don't think ahead, or more often than not can't seem to get value for money when it comes to purchases.

Look at who stands to benefit when a new vessel is commissioned.

izzop · 7 Dec 2016 at 21:18

Dis86 said:
Look at who stands to benefit when a new vessel is commissioned.

Fingers crossed, but you're making the assumption that they'll commission a replacement.

I wouldn't be surprised if we sell off HMS Prince of Wales once built, certainly not the first time something similar has happened.

EVH5150 · 7 Dec 2016 at 21:30

Bald-Eagle22 said:
Falklands conflict . Her and HMS Hermes were the aircraft carriers .

Invincible was there too

, my two uncles served on her at the time, very fond memories awaiting the task force return in Portsmouth.

Tefal · 7 Dec 2016 at 21:30

ChroniC said:
Don't understand why it doesnt come down to Portsmouth and go into the Naval Museum yard, or expand the Submarine Museum to include this. I'd love to go on an aircraft carrier. It could then make money

It would never make money

IronWarrior · 8 Dec 2016 at 00:13

zola25 said:
Very true, it's just a crying shame the Type 45's have virtually no surface-to-surface capability. Although a Type 23 could keep company with it's Harpoons.

Not even that, the Harpoons have come to their end of service life. We are losing all our anti-ship missiles for the next few years till they can decide what to have next.

So otherwords, we have no long range anti-ship weapons.

OspreyO · 8 Dec 2016 at 00:43

Always thought this was sad....