Home entertainment system, help!

richyfingers · 31 May 2007 at 14:57

Hi guys, I was wondering if any of you could possibly help me.

My brother is moving into a new house soon and I suggested using his PC as the hub of his entertainment system, i.e. the ability to listen to music and watch films stored on his PC with the films and music playing through his TV and separates. Now I know this is possible but I was wondering what I would need to set it up. I saw what I guess was a version of windows media centre running in a shop a while ago, it had a small mouse like device which was used to browse through music, films etc. Looked rather nifty and easy to use.

What I am wondering is exactly what I will need to set up a similar system bearing in mind the PC will most likely be stored upstairs while the TV will be downstairs. I’m guessing some sort of wireless option may be available or perhaps using a small shuttle system with a couple of large hard drives next to the TV would be best. Like I said I’m not really sure what options are available to me and could do with some of your expertise, thanks in advance

Richy.

squiffy · 31 May 2007 at 15:01

To convert a PC into a HTPC you'll need.

IR remote & Receiver.
HTPC front end.

That's it. £24 for the MS one, and Media Portal installed. As for your install you could have variety of options, your PC is server upstairs, so you have a LAN media stream (Squeezebox suitable here for music) or Xbox 360 for video as well, there are some other units around. Or you could use existing PC as a HTPC, or build up a MATX system connected into your LAN, sharing files over the LAN and/or what's on the HTPC itself and the server (or NAS)

I would recommend a Squeezebox for music side, nice and simple, comes with VFD, remote, digital/analogue outputs etc. Easy to use, just install software and away you go. For video side it depends on what he wants. I would go down cheap MATX HTPC system (around £500) connected to your LAN.

richyfingers · 31 May 2007 at 17:34

Would all the functionality be accessible through an interface on the TV?

sid · 31 May 2007 at 17:38

richyfingers said:
Would all the functionality be accessible through an interface on the TV?

Yes,

I'd reccomend XP or Vista MCE instead of Mediaportal if you don't know what you are doing. Mediaportal is more advanced with lots of plugins but it is different to configure for novice users.

sid

squiffy · 31 May 2007 at 17:46

MCE is utter pants, you can't even fast forward avi's, music database is so slow you'll be throwing remote against the wall. Media Portal really isn't that hard, just open up config and edit/add directories you want to access. No different to MCE, which is just prettier.

sid · 31 May 2007 at 17:49

squiffy said:
MCE is utter pants, you can't even fast forward avi's, music database is so slow you'll be throwing remote against the wall. Media Portal really isn't that hard, just open up config and edit/add directories you want to access. No different to MCE, which is just prettier.

Valid criticisms but I've never had any problems with Vista MCE and i've used both on my setup.

I do like the wall of music in vista but it needs properly tagged mp3s. Music database isn't slow but that will depend on how many songs.

There are limited speeds for FF but the skip buttons seems to be faster for videos and dvds.

sid

richyfingers · 31 May 2007 at 17:51

Can I ask what kind of setups you guys have, list of equipment/software etc..

I've started reading up on some of the stuff you have mentioned but it’s not an area I know much about.

sid · 31 May 2007 at 17:54

richyfingers said:
Can I ask what kind of setups you guys have, list of equipment/software etc..

I've started reading up on some of the stuff you have mentioned but it’s not an area I know much about.

HTPC connected to 1200es amp with hdmi-dvi cable then to tv via hdmi-hdmi cable.

HTPC is basic spec and runs 32bit vista ultimate.
AMD64 3500+ 1gb ram, geforce 6800le, 300gb storage, it is networked so you can add stuff on it.

TV is a 37" LG LC2DB.

sid

squiffy · 31 May 2007 at 17:57

HTPC is AMD 4200X2 939 (was 3700+) 1GB RAM (will be upgraded this week to 2GB) 60GB 2.5" IDE boot, 500GB Samsung Data, Asus MATX 6150 board, ATI X300 PCI-E, M-Audio Revolution 5.1. Digital out to av pre-amp, S-Video into av pre-amp then onto to 28" CRT (previously into 42" 1080p via DVI-HDMI) Seasonic S12 430W PSU, Silverstone TJ-08 case, Microsoft IR receiver, URC MX-700 remote. DNS-323 on the LAN with movies/avi's. Music on the 500GB as flac/ogg/mp3/mpc, 2x Squeezebox V3 into LAN, one in the HT, HTPC has slimserver installed. Second output to 17" LG TFT.

OS is XP Pro with Mediaportal. Have installed XP MCE on a few occasions but went back to Mediaportal due to it's limitations/annoyances. Want to try Ubuntu/Linux MCE but driver installation looks a right pig, and hardware not really working (digital audio out not working)

I don't use HTPC as music playback, too much hassle..use the Squeezebox instead. For AVI's htpc takes over. Oppo 981 for DVD-Video playback (couldn't find quiet DVD-R/DVD-ROM so bought the oppo)

sid · 31 May 2007 at 18:01

squiffy said:
HTPC is AMD 4200X2 939 (was 3700+) 1GB RAM (will be upgraded this week to 2GB) 60GB 2.5" IDE boot, 500GB Samsung Data, Asus MATX 6150 board, ATI X300 PCI-E, M-Audio Revolution 5.1. Digital out to av pre-amp, S-Video into av pre-amp then onto to 28" CRT (previously into 42" 1080p via DVI-HDMI) Seasonic S12 430W PSU, Silverstone TJ-08 case, Microsoft IR receiver, URC MX-700 remote. DNS-323 on the LAN with movies/avi's. Music on the 500GB as flac/ogg/mp3/mpc, 2x Squeezebox V3 into LAN, one in the HT, HTPC has slimserver installed. Second output to 17" LG TFT.

OS is XP Pro with Mediaportal. Have installed XP MCE on a few occasions but went back to Mediaportal due to it's limitations/annoyances. Want to try Ubuntu/Linux MCE but driver installation looks a right pig, and hardware not really working (digital audio out not working)

How come a small TV squiffy? why did you sell the 42" 1080p? I was expecting a grand setup from you judging by your usual advice on these forums?

Also had a look at these squeezeboxes you rave about, looks like a pain to browse through music on it and you need another pc on anyways so why not use the MCE pc to play music? Mediaportal has folder browse which is a godsend and quick.

sid

sid

richyfingers · 31 May 2007 at 18:01

Sorry for all the questions but in the setups you both have do you have a main PC networked to the HTPC which sits next to your setup?

Thanks again guys, the info is very helpful.

*edit*

Yea I noticed the display on the squeezebox was very small, can imagine it would be a pain browsing through a lot of music on it, I Guess Media portal offers the same functionality through the main interface?

sid · 31 May 2007 at 18:03

richyfingers said:
Sorry for all the questions but in the setups you both have do you have a main PC networked to the HTPC which sits next to your setup?

Thanks again guys, the info is very helpful.

Yup, What ever I download is transferred to media pc and played from there (i could play off network but i'd rather not. seems unstable on my wifi anyways. so i'd rather avoid it .

sid

squiffy · 31 May 2007 at 18:10

That 42" went back due to picture problems

MCE has music playback but it means

1) Display must be on
2) Must install plugins, most don't work (MCE)
3) Painfull slow (MCE)
4) Have to browse by directory or database. In MCE that's impossible, in Media Portal better as you can browse by directory, but since having Squeezebox for a while in another room it's just easier
5) I have used custom browser, music is in a database, but with \a, \b etc arrangment, singles aren't in there (in a seperate singles field) and various artists are in VA field. Really fast.
6) Even though I have dual display, so could use HTPC front end for music selection, I just prefer Squeezebox. Have one right next to the monitor.

Squezebox display is a VFD, It's visible from quiet a distance (big fonts are massive) but once you've done the above it's faster than the htpc. Tried MCE search and within 2 minutes wiped the HD because it's so slow. No way it's the PC.

Data can be anywhere on the LAN, HTPC has 500GB with music/videos, but also 600GB elseware on the LAN in the NAS. No problems playing HD over the LAN (100mbps wired)

edit in "big" mode the font height is 15mm. The above picture is with medium size font (one down from max)

HTPC is on 24/7 so not a problem. You could use a Qnap or Buffalo Linkstation Pro with Linux for music server/storage.

sid · 31 May 2007 at 18:46

squiffy said:
That 42" went back due to picture problems
MCE has music playback but it means

1) Display must be on
2) Must install plugins, most don't work (MCE)
3) Painfull slow (MCE)
4) Have to browse by directory or database. In MCE that's impossible, in Media Portal better as you can browse by directory, but since having Squeezebox for a while in another room it's just easier
5) I have used custom browser, music is in a database, but with \a, \b etc arrangment, singles aren't in there (in a seperate singles field) and various artists are in VA field. Really fast.
6) Even though I have dual display, so could use HTPC front end for music selection, I just prefer Squeezebox. Have one right next to the monitor.

Squezebox display is a VFD, It's visible from quiet a distance (big fonts are massive) but once you've done the above it's faster than the htpc. Tried MCE search and within 2 minutes wiped the HD because it's so slow. No way it's the PC.

Data can be anywhere on the LAN, HTPC has 500GB with music/videos, but also 600GB elseware on the LAN in the NAS. No problems playing HD over the LAN (100mbps wired)

edit in "big" mode the font height is 15mm. The above picture is with medium size font (one down from max)

HTPC is on 24/7 so not a problem. You could use a Qnap or Buffalo Linkstation Pro with Linux for music server/storage.

Fair enough but how do you search for songs on the squeezebox, searching songs on NAS hdd is gonna be slower than local hdd for sure.

Also i can't how browsing will be easier than MCE(albeit slow)

sid

squiffy · 31 May 2007 at 18:58

Searching on the SB with the music on NAS is no slower than music on a local HD, the database build is held on your slimserver. Only when you start playing it'll access the file. I can play two flac tracks at the same time over a 100mps LAN (sync and differential) Is Winamp media library slow when your music is in a shared directory on other PC, and changing artist/album? No. Same thing.

I've tried MCE and Media Portal, trust me it's slow. Only Winamp with a mouse is fast, but the reason is obvious. You can see the whole lot and zip to the one in a couple of seconds.

Definietly worth £165. Searching (artist, album, song) is done by mobile phone style. Exactly like MCE. Except SB responds, MCE dawdles and hogs like a dumb **** If you want to play FLAC/OGG/MPC files in MCE you need to install plugins, which don't work. When I told MCE to look at the music directory it didn't pick them all up, even though in Media Player the flac music is all there, in settings the plugin was working and enabled. Go figure. Mp3 works though. In Media Portal directshow flac/ogg/mpc filters means the built-in player works straight off.

oh yeah if your HTPC is loaded it means secondary display can't be used, as it opens full screen. You can't move cursor across.

At least with SB I can navigate music whilst using PC monitor, granted can do that in Winamp.

I think it's the sort of thing will understand, once using MCE/Mediaportal, finding it's quirks etc.

sid · 31 May 2007 at 19:13

squiffy said:
Searching on the SB with the music on NAS is no slower than music on a local HD, the database build is held on your slimserver. Only when you start playing it'll access the file. I can play two flac tracks at the same time over a 100mps LAN (sync and differential) Is Winamp media library slow when your music is in a shared directory on other PC, and changing artist/album? No. Same thing.

I've tried MCE and Media Portal, trust me it's slow. Only Winamp with a mouse is fast, but the reason is obvious. You can see the whole lot and zip to the one in a couple of seconds.

Definietly worth £165. Searching (artist, album, song) is done by mobile phone style. Exactly like MCE. Except SB responds, MCE dawdles and hogs like a dumb **** If you want to play FLAC/OGG/MPC files in MCE you need to install plugins, which don't work. When I told MCE to look at the music directory it didn't pick them all up, even though in Media Player the flac music is all there, in settings the plugin was working and enabled. Go figure. Mp3 works though. In Media Portal directshow flac/ogg/mpc filters means the built-in player works straight off.

oh yeah if your HTPC is loaded it means secondary display can't be used, as it opens full screen. You can't move cursor across.

At least with SB I can navigate music whilst using PC monitor, granted can do that in Winamp.

I think it's the sort of thing will understand, once using MCE/Mediaportal, finding it's quirks etc.

So as I said then you can't browse music on the SB, sure you can search for it when you are looking for it but that assumes you know what song you want to play. sometimes i like to browse through albums and pick something rather than having something picked already. This is where the squeezebox is a let down. Say if someone is around and wants to play a song but how is he/she gonna know what songs you already have?

sid

squiffy · 31 May 2007 at 19:21

lol. Of course you can browse. I think you should download "Softsqueeze" you can browse (or search)- by artist, album, genre, singles, composer, decades, years..by anything tag contains, or by directory. Or use custom browser and create your own filters.

sid · 31 May 2007 at 19:36

squiffy said:
lol. Of course you can browse. I think you should download "Softsqueeze" you can browse (or search)- by artist, album, genre, singles, composer, decades, years..by anything tag contains, or by directory. Or use custom browser and create your own filters.

I meant on the external module not on the pc.
How do you browse through thousands of songs on that? you can't easily can you? that was my point.

sid

squiffy · 31 May 2007 at 19:41

And why would you browse through thousands? Would you do that on the PC? No. Even browsing by album on the PC is difficult (takes about 2 minutes to scroll from top to bottom in winamp)

Browsing through thousands of songs in MCE is stupidly slow as well, it still only displays 9 at a time. Media Portal does a better job of this.

You CAN browse through thousands of course. But you can use a filter beforehand. WHich most sensible people would use.

It's just using a DAP, but with remote...but lots more configurability.

I think you should play with MCE, Mediaportal and a Squeezebox....without trying to have a misinformed opinion.

oh squeezebox menu browsing has acceleration.

sid · 31 May 2007 at 19:56

squiffy said:
And why would you browse through thousands? Would you do that on the PC? No. Even browsing by album on the PC is difficult (takes about 2 minutes to scroll from top to bottom in winamp)

Browsing through thousands of songs in MCE is stupidly slow as well, it still only displays 9 at a time. Media Portal does a better job of this.

You CAN browse through thousands of course. But you can use a filter beforehand. WHich most sensible people would use.

It's just using a DAP, but with remote...but lots more configurability.

I think you should play with MCE, Mediaportal and a Squeezebox....without trying to have a misinformed opinion.

oh squeezebox menu browsing has acceleration.

What the hell are you talking about?

vista mce displays 20albums on 1 screen to look at once, how is that little squeezebox going to do that? Looking at the size of the screen from the pic, you display 3/4 lines of text max. so if someone wanted to browse through your collection of albums to pick one, how is that going to work? Thats gonna take a while now isn't it? forget the pc as you've already said your tv is off when you listen to your music.

sid