Home Office media kit – spec me/advice please

"Pre-outs require a secondary amp. An AV receiver with Zone 2 does not."

Pre-outs can function to zone 2, that's the point. Nothing you using pre-outs to a amp, into zone 2. Or headphone amp.

Also what of AV pre-amps with Zone 2 outputs? They offer zones they just need amps, so no difference between a old school stereo analogue pre-amp, with say a multi-channel amp for main, zone 2, zone 3 etc.

Both can function as "zone 2" they may differ but they can do the same function. You could use pre-outs into a distribution amp. How is that not "zone"

"A+B Speaker only allows one source to be played in A/B or A+B."

True, but that can still function as multi-room, just means the same audio. Which some people or installs are used for. Sure it doesn't offer seperate sources that is a limitation but not everyone needs that.

"An AV receiver with Zone 2 allows different sources to be played in the two zones at the same time."

You just stated not all AVR's have that, or require analogue sources.

So if I had a BD player, with no analogue outputs, and a TV box with no analogue outputs, how would I send audio to zone 2? You can't.

"Zone 2 has been around for a long time, and people are using it now more than ever because music and audio is increasingly a whole home connected technology."

I have multi-room myself. Squeezeboxes (two of them) they can either play the same track, or different tracks. And because both are seperate, I can use other sources on both amps too.

Slim Devices also offered audio media streamers, at the time Squeezebox offered more, for more affordable pricing. The requirement for a server/service was a pain, but Sonos LCD remote was very expensive, it had no VFD, and squeezebox was open, Sonos was closed system.

It's better now of course, and Squeezebox is end of life although it still functions as needed.

"If RFI were to become a problem then there's always the fall-back a balun system which uses balanced CAT cable to deal with noise. Real world solutions rather than negativity. "

Or you could use optical or coaxial out from the AVR or DAC (bypass out) to the next room, into another DAC or AVR. Single cable, and not effected by noise, loss etc (esp optical) Plus pass DD/DTS.

"Are you aware that integrated AV amps and AV receivers with multi-room features have been available since 2000-2001 though?"

Yup. But if they require analogue and digital, they are flawed in my opinion.

My Lexicon does the same, it needs analogue and digital to get zone 2 to work. It's stupid. I believe the MC-12 allowed you to send audio to other zones.

There are many ways of having multi-room, different methods, and if something doesn't work - then need to figure another way of doing it. If your method doesn't function as it should, because of the hardware limitation then use another way. My method isn't wrong, it just has more flexbility.
 
Thanks guys. I’ll be honest I’m out of my depth but two seperate zones sounds like it will suit my needs fine. As I said I’m coming from a. Single sonos one in the living room so i imagine this will sound a lot better. The bose outside speakers as well. Thanks for your help and if I get round to it when it’s done I’ll post some pics up.
One final query any recommended AVRs say £300-500 so I don’t push the budget much more (unless necessary).
 
oneilldo said:
Thanks guys. I’ll be honest I’m out of my depth but two seperate zones sounds like it will suit my needs fine. As I said I’m coming from a. Single sonos one in the living room so i imagine this will sound a lot better. The bose outside speakers as well. Thanks for your help and if I get round to it when it’s done I’ll post some pics up.
One final query any recommended AVRs say £300-500 so I don’t push the budget much more (unless necessary).
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As already said, you may need to send analogue AND digital from your Sonos (and other sources if you have them) to the AVR, to get zone 2 to work. I recall the Sonos do have stereo RCA outputs.

I recommend Yamaha AVR's for relability. They may not have the best in power output (pretty lousy, in fact) but if you want a good solid reliable AVR they are hard to beat. Got a Yamaha 671 myself.
 
Thanks I’ll have a look at the Yamaha’s. The sonos does have stereo output and optical so should suffice. Something else that can happen is that if using multiroom with Sonos Connect it can be slightly out of sync if using digital due to the delay processing in the AVR. However as this will be external and as I won’t be synching with the house it shouldn’t be an issue. I suppose I might get something similar using zone 1 and zone 2 at the same time
 
I'd also have a look at the Denon's while your at the dealer - they're very easy to setup and offer pretty good room correction with the microphone which helps when speaker placement and room conditions aren't ideal.
 
oneilldo said:
Thanks guys. I’ll be honest I’m out of my depth but two seperate zones sounds like it will suit my needs fine. As I said I’m coming from a. Single sonos one in the living room so i imagine this will sound a lot better. The bose outside speakers as well. Thanks for your help and if I get round to it when it’s done I’ll post some pics up.
One final query any recommended AVRs say £300-500 so I don’t push the budget much more (unless necessary).
Click to expand...

All the following will do Zone 2:

Marantz NR1608 @ £450 - not the most powerful AV Receiver @ 50W per channel in to 8 Ohms 20Hz-20kHz stereo, that's a real world measurement. But it is roughly half the height of the conventional alternatives, though a bit deeper too. Lots of connectivity.

Sony STRDN1080 @ £470 - roughly 75W/ch in stereo 8 Ohm 20Hz-20kHz. Conventional size AV receiver with good reviews.

Denon AVRX2400 @ £370 - most powerful receiver of the group at 95W/ch in stereo 8 Ohm 20Hz-20kHz. Spiritual sister to the Marantz (same parent company) but bred for power

Yamaha RX-V683 @ £400 - second most powerful receiver in the group at 90W/ch in stereo 8 Ohm 20Hz-20kHz. Fewer HDMI than the others but better Optical and Coax connectivity. Possibly the best compromise between music ability (Marantz) and film/TV power (Denon).



The next step down in price is £330 for the Pioneer VSX932. It's a nice enough amp, but I think the extra £40 for the Denon would be worth every penny.


Brands currently on the naughty step: Onkyo. Once the darling of the AV world they've rather blotted their copy book with poor reliability on the HDMI boards and also failing Optical/Coax processor boards. Fingers crossed that they're past this now, but only time will tell. With such strong competition between the other brands, and particularly strong reviews for the Denon and the Sony, I can't see a solid reason to favour Onkyo that would make it worth the risk.
 
hornetstinger said:
"Pre-outs require a secondary amp. An AV receiver with Zone 2 does not."

<snip> </snip>

There are many ways of having multi-room, different methods, and if something doesn't work - then need to figure another way of doing it. If your method doesn't function as it should, because of the hardware limitation then use another way. My method isn't wrong, it just has more flexbility.
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I'm not going to waste any more time on this with you. I've already answered all the points in more than sufficient detail. You're becoming obsessed with trying to fit a square peg in to a round hole, and you're losing all sense of perspective. What's worse, you're going off in to irrelevant flights of fancy and ignoring @oneilldo's requirements. Give it a rest.
 
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oneilldo said:
Thanks I’ll have a look at the Yamaha’s. The sonos does have stereo output and optical so should suffice. Something else that can happen is that if using multiroom with Sonos Connect it can be slightly out of sync if using digital due to the delay processing in the AVR. However as this will be external and as I won’t be synching with the house it shouldn’t be an issue. I suppose I might get something similar using zone 1 and zone 2 at the same time
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You don't have to use both Optical and stereo analogue. You would be more than covered just with stereo analogue on its own. I only mentioned Optical because it was something you seemed to be focused on.
 
lucid said:
I'm not going to waste any more time on this with you. I've already answered all the points in more than sufficient detail. You're becoming obsessed with trying to fit a square peg ain to a round hole, and you're losing all sense of perspective. What's worse, you're going off in to irrelevant flights of fancy and ignoring @oneilldo's requirements. Give it a rest.
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Lol if nobody is buying anything that Hornet recommends. Then your better off not buying anything at all lol. Wish they was a block button on this forum
 
So silly question but do I need specific speaker cables. I am going to order the 2xBCK65 ceiling speakers today and want to get some speaker cable as well. The speaker cable is going in the roof and will be lying against a

Do I need low smoke stuff? or would something like Cambridge Audio SYMPHONY 400 speaker cable suffice. I will get the same for the Mass 5.1 speakers (only using sub, centre and front two).

Thanks
 
oneilldo said:
So silly question but do I need specific speaker cables. I am going to order the 2xBCK65 ceiling speakers today and want to get some speaker cable as well. The speaker cable is going in the roof and will be lying against a

Do I need low smoke stuff? or would something like Cambridge Audio SYMPHONY 400 speaker cable suffice. I will get the same for the Mass 5.1 speakers (only using sub, centre and front two).

Thanks
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Massively over-priced for what you need. Can't comment on the spec though as that appears to be some kind of trade secret. That always worries me because they should publish something that gives the cross sectional area and filament count. Unless you're running miles of cable then 1.5mm cable such as Fisual S-Flex will be fine up to 35m.

LSZH - unless you're commercial installing in a multi-dweller property or business premises it's very unlikely that Building Regs will require LSZH cable.
 
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Cheers Lucid, I'll just go for the Fisual S-Flex for internal. Any advice on the external (I will be going for the Bose 251 speakers)

Thanks
 
So one speaker will probably be a ~10 meter length and the other a ~12-15 meter length (depending where I decide to mount it).
Speakers are 100watts.

Would something like QED QX16/2 Outdoor 2 Core Black Speaker Cable suffice, its 2mm cross section?.
 
as far as the whole zone 2 thing goes, it is implemented differently across brands and models. generally speaking:
- The cheaper end receivers have a zone 2 line level output only, so you cant use the unit's internal amps for zone 2 - you need an external amp.
- Mid range stuff will allow you to use two of the internal channels for zone 2 amplification, negating the need for an external amp though of course you loose two channels in your main setup. They may even have a zone 3 (though like my onkyo, zone 2 is amped, zone 3 is line-level only).
- Only the really high end stuff allows you to use digital sources with zone 2/3.

With the whole receiver vs separates argument, the difference is an av receiver with zone2/3 will process each zone independently, so you can watch a movie on a bluray player connected via HDMI in zone 1, and have the receivers radio outputting to zone 2 in the kitchen. Or for a slightly more modern example, maybe you could have a google home connected and have zone 2 assigned to that input, all in the same room. That gives you a speaker or two speakers dedicated to the Home's output using zone 2 while you do everything else as usual in zone 1.

Hornet seems fixated on splitting the same source across multiple rooms but that multi zone goes beyond that. In truth though, I've never found it all that useful as it's nearly always hobbled in some way .
 
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