Home recording studio queries

Alexrose1uk

Alexrose1uk

Alexrose1uk

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Home recording studio queries - what do I need, and how, read inside for more...

At my house, the garage is unused, and me and my dad eventually plan to put a floor into the room (at the moment its concrete), and I'm thinking of turning it into a sound studio, as I study Music Tech, and while not particularly amazing at playing, I LOVE to tinker with equipment, equalisers etc to get the best sound, even if my musical skills and design arent good.

I already have CubaseSX 3, and have come up with the following other things I'd need to make this a reality, but my knowledge is somewhat limited, so I'd really like to learn and for you guys to tell me what else I'd need.
The PC I'd be using is my current one, which Im replacing soon (so I could use my current one as a music editing job).

List of equipment I came up with was:

2x Monitor Speakers for PC/Mixing Desk (NEED RECOMMENDATIONS)
Mixing desk 8 Mono Channel Minimum (8 mic input), 16 channel maximum, pref with eq, phantom power, panning and FX if possible (NEED RECOMMENDATIONS) - Thinking Behringer Eurorack
Professional Looking Desk designed to hold Mixing Desk, Monitor and Keyboard and Mouse
3x Shure SM58 vocal mics
3x Shure SM57 instrumental mics
PC (AthlonXP2800+,1GB RAM, 160GB HD, Soundstorm, 9200 gfx, CD Burner when I strip it down for better cooling)
New sound card (to recieve info from mixing desk) (NEED RECOMMENDATIONS) - M-Audio or X-Fi Fatality likely
Cables (NEED RECOMMENDATIONS)
Microphone stands/clamps (NEED RECOMMENDATIONS)
Headphones so artists and I can hear exactly what is being played, like from the monitors (NEED RECOMMENDATIONS)
Phantom Power Condensor Mic?
Drum Kit Mics (NEED SUGGESTIONS)

Also thinking of getting a remote Network Storage device for audial backup.

Obviously the players bring thier own Amps for me to mic up, and I already have a drum kit within the household.

Can you guys please give me suggestions, ie sound card, and can you tell me what I'd need to do to connect the seperate channels on the mixer to a seperate channel on Cubase?
Is there a sound card etc with 6 inputs, or do you just record each input seperately, or DI into the mixer, play all at once, and that outputs in stereo (over a phono/phono lead to the sound card)?
Also, do you recommend a dual monitor setup for the computer?
Also, what mics do you recommend for rigging a drum set?
Does anyone have a good website with a good layout of how they believe one should be mic'ed, and what cables do you lot recommend?


As you can see, on the fine details I'm completely out of my depth so far, so please give me all the knowledge you've got, I love to learn about this stuff, and I wanna make sure when this project happens, its done ok, not badly.

My overall budget for this project will probably be about £1000 max, and ebay will be my friend (can get new Shure mics on there for about £40-50 each!)
For referance, the garage we'd be using as a studio if this project is ever completed is about 10m x 10m.

Also, obviously, HAVE I MISSED ANYTHING?
 
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Thats the thing, I'm not sure, I need recommendations on a lot of equipment, do you have any suggestions? If you've fully read the above, you'll see the technical aspects of what I'll need are currently a bit beyond me.

I was wondering if the Creative X-FI Fatality with its front box with inputs would be any good (upto about £150-200 max I think), I dont intend to use the creative software, just the drivers to get the inputs to register in CubaseSX3.
My other thoughts on sound card were M-Audio, have heard they're excellent for sound fidelity.

Just remembered I'd require headphones as well, as OcUK isn't an audio specialists, any companies named here wouldnt be competitors, so anyone recommend any good headphones for recording/listening to recordings that will do the same job as a monitor (ie they wont boost frequency spectrums like normal listening speakers), and where you can get them, preferably for a reasonable price.
 
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Yeah, I was thinking you'd probably want a decent Creative one that can process quickly, without any loss in quality. Particularly the ones with the break out boxes. Not really sure myself which one you should go for though, sorry
 
Cables, go with ones which use Neutrik connectors, they will last a lifetime.

Mic stands, gonna say K&M here, just proven quality.

Headphones, the Beyerdynamic DT100s are the standard studio headphones, your mileage may vary with these though, so check out a bunch before you buy.

M-Audio sound card over Creative, you want stability and fast drivers, not EAX support.

Mixers, the Allen and Heath Mixwizard WZ3 12:2 should do you nicely.

Edit: The PA12 mixer might do you as well.
 
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Nah I mean a lot of people think they are overrated, so you should wait for other opinions. I don't have any complaints other than they are a touch on the heavy side. Very comfortable though.

All I'll say about Behringer is that you get what you pay for, it would be fine if you were just making a podcast, but you are building up a pretty decent home studio, it makes no sense to skimp on the most important part. The PA12 mixers are just over £400.

Edit: Have a look at the Soundcraft range if you want cheaper than that.
 
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See my edit then.

What I like about the PA12 is the digital output on it, so you can go from the mixer to your PC without any interference issues.
 
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Caged has the right idea IMO :)

If you're recording a drum kit I'd go with an M-Audio Delta1010.
The Delta1010-lt is good if you're on a budget.

You might get away with a Delta44 (or 66 - but the 66 just adds SPDIF - ie no extra analogue inputs), but then you have more limited micing options - and certainly couldn't record a full band live (or at least - not all onto seperate tracks).

In addition to the pre's on your desk, you might want a nice pre for recording vocals.
I would go for a Joe Meek - my friend has this one and it's a beauty:
http://www.dv247.com/invt/20526/
It comes with a lovely built in compressor.

If you can't spend that much on a nice vocal pre - then either rely on your desk, or get something like this:
http://www.dv247.com/invt/20337/
...and a seperate compressor (the RNC is a classic cheapo one)...
http://www.dv247.com/invt/12496/

It is well worth having a nice pre for vocals at least. An outboard compressor isn't so essential - but is still very god to have. You should run the Pre/compressor combo straight into the Delta1010 - don't sully the lovely vocal signal by putting it through your desk when recording, unless you absolutly have to.

This is a nice vocal mic:
http://www.dv247.com/invt/14668/
...but a bit expensive.

If you ask me, the Rode stuff is very good indeed - have a look at their range:
http://www.dv247.com/search/2935/1718/ProductPrice/Ascending//1/

I have an NT3 and although it's pretty bright, it's a very good all-purpose condensor. It's even useful for field work as it can take a 9v battery! It may only have a small capsule - but it's a good mic if you know what you're doing with it!

If I were you I wouldn't get so many 57's and 58's.
They are the same mic - except the 58 has a piece of foam in front of it.
You may ned a few 57's for drums - but you don't need that many 58s - especially if you get a condensor for the vox.

The NTK is a classic - but something like the NT1A would do just fine I'm sure :)

I concurr with Caged again on the DT-100s - you're not looking for quality of sound here - these things have replacable parts and can be kicked about, as they will be by bands!

As for monitors...
Well - I'm going to be contraversial...
The Alesis Monitor One's get slagged off to hell and back by many people. I think they are exceptional value though - especially the active pair:
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/2626

If you have a little money to spend I'd go with some Genelec's - I've never heard a bad pair of speakers from them to be honest:
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/?m_ma...88117a1fe4f065525ed8c819e3b&filter_type=basic
 
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BTW - if I were building a new studio I would look into getting a hardware 'control surface' rather than a desk. I do all my mixing in software anyway - so much better to get three or four nice outboard pre's and run them straight into the sound card than to buy a full-on mixing desk.

It's an approach more people are taking these days - and it's one that works well.

The less circuitry between the mic and the hard drive the better!

Nice clean dedicated pre's are going to be much better than the pre's on a cheap desk. Those ART ones (and some others) are really pretty good and cheap too!
 
Oh - and while I'm at it, I found Cubase performance increased hugely when I got an AMD X2 3800+ CPU.

That software really likes multiple cores/cpus!

Multiple cpu support is really improved in Cubase3 too!
 
Heheh, I cant really afford to spend £600 on a pair of monitor speakers, or build a new PC, the pc used is my old one, as I'm getting a new gaming rig soon (ironically with a 3800+), my budget is really £1000 to £1500 max with as little spent as possible, as Im a student and this will take a while to save for.

Do like the idea of digital output on the PA12, does this output all channels, so i could say output 8 channels at once, digitally via one cable, or would it still be one cable per sound output?

TBH, the cracked copy of CubaseSX I find runs pretty well anyway, apparently cutting out and emulating a lot of the hardware dongle calls, and security increased speed somewhat.


Might check out the equipment my school recording studio has for some ideas, think they use Sennheiser headphones there though.
 
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Alexrose1uk said:
Heheh, I cant really afford to spend £600 on a pair of monitor speakers, or build a new PC, the pc used is my old one, as I'm getting a new gaming rig soon (ironically with a 3800+), my budget is really £1000 to £1500 max with as little spent as possible, as Im a student and this will take a while to save for.

Do like the idea of digital output on the PA12, does this output all channels, so i could say output 8 channels at once, digitally via one cable, or would it still be one cable per sound output?



Might check out the equipment my school recording studio has for some ideas, think they use Sennheiser headphones there though.
Click to expand...

Oops - got carried away and didn't look at the budget - lol!

Some of my suggestions still stand though :)

...and if you're on a budget it's possible you could start off with an M-Audio Delta44 sound card and later add another one as they are designed to work well together.

I would still look at getting one of those ART pre-amps if you can afford it. It would make the world of difference for the vocals - and that's what people listen to in the main after all!

Start off just using a 58 for the vox and get a condensor later.
You can get away with a 58 for the bass drum believe it or not (yes - it's anot a nice thing to do recording purists - but we're on a budget here - now anyway ;) ).
Then you can stick a 57 on the snare and use two other 57s for overheads. That's just four mics for the kit :)

If you can afford a Rode NT3 then do grab one, as IMO they are very very versatile. They sound great on guitar cabs and are surprisingly good for vocals if you know how to tweak some of the hi-mid in eq afterwards. Again - this isn't ideal - but you can't afford a U87 yet I guess ;)

I still stand by what I said about a desk.

I would *much* rather have four 'ok' outboard pre's and mix in software, than a cheap and nasty desk. That's just my approach though. Many people get reasonable results with these cheap desks - I can't though...

Have a think about this approach, and how much mixing you would actually do on the desk and how much you would do in software...

I still think the Alesis Monitor ones are good - and fit in the budget reasonably well.

Otherwise you could go cheaper and get some M-Audio jobbies - which would be alright:
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/?m_ma...88117a1fe4f065525ed8c819e3b&filter_type=basic

As for layout - well, you can make your own bass-traps, which is worth doing. You can also use old matresses to deadden the room. There are often good articles about this stuff in Sound on Sound magazine - so get a subscription!

Have fun - and keep loving the music :D
 
Was looking at around 200-400 rrp for a desk, so not completely cheap, especially if I can get a nice deal on one on ebay, besides, I can get a nicer one, just with fewer channels :) and no, the £1400 condensor made my lmfao...

How much were those more expensive models of M-Audio cards with the multiple inputs, I'm interested now...

I'm not a great musician, as it says in the first post, but I LOVE to tweak for sound, so not a purist, or a perfectionist, but I do like to get the best I can get before I get hacked off or bored lol

You reckon 2800+AthlonXP, 1GB DDR, 160GB HD would be ok for music work?
Would timings make any diffence, as I can get about 8-4-42.5 dual channel guaranteed, and perhaps more if I tweak the machine, or 6-3-3 at single channel, not sure of CAS, as my old mobos vdimm was messed and I dont know the true capabilities of this RAM.

Any other drum mic recommendations. My current thoughts are Rode NT3 for vocals, 2x sm58 for backing vocals, 3 sm57 for amps, and whatever I can get for a drum kit that dont cost the bomb, as I dont wanna spend half my budget on mics lol
 
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8 input/output :D

Could input my whole mixing desk to cubase if I ended up with a 8 channel mixer at once!, by the look of it, from the phono, you could output to those, and 8 stereo inputs too... I LIKE this card.
Are the drivers good?

And I cant be classed as audiophile as I'm running my cd player through 2 bass amps....effectively mono, as they're only one speaker, but as they're different sizes and good for different frequencies, it actually sounds quite nice :D
 
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Alexrose1uk said:
8 input/output :D

Could input my whole mixing desk to cubase if I ended up with a 8 channel mixer at once!, by the look of it, from the phono, you could output to those, and 8 stereo inputs too... I LIKE this card.
Are the drivers good?
Click to expand...

The drivers are excellent.

I have the Delta66, but it uses the same drivers (all the Delta cards play nice together - you can have a Delta44, Delta66, Delta1010 - all in the same PC and running over ASIO nicely).

The only thing to do is search the web for hardware conflicts between your mainboard and the Delta1010LT.

You should be fine though - I don't know of aybody who has had a problem that wasn't betwen the chair and the keyboard ;)
 
Alexrose1uk said:
8 input/output :D

And I cant be classed as audiophile as I'm running my cd player through 2 bass amps....effectively mono, as they're only one speaker, but as they're different sizes and good for different frequencies, it actually sounds quite nice :D
Click to expand...

Lol - well you're half-way to monoblocks, which is *very* audiophile - lol ;)
 
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