Honda and Nissan (and maybe Mitsubishi) merger

Stu999 · Monday at 15:13

I heard reports a few weeks ago that Nissan might be "in trouble" financially and it turns out that might be true. News is saying there may well be a merger with Honda, a Memorandum of Understanding has been signed with a view to agree the merger by June next year then complete the merger in 2026. Mitsubishi might also be part of the alliance.

Interesting times in the car industry, what with VW potentially laying off 35,000 people by 2030.

Official: Japanese giants Honda and Nissan planning to merge | Autocar

The two Japanese firms are in talks to join forces in new holding company that could also include Mitsubishi

www.autocar.co.uk

Volkswagen to cut 35,000 jobs by 2030 as part of restructuring plan | Autocar

German car maker says decision is part of comprehensive restructuring plan to save up to €4 billion

www.autocar.co.uk

jpaul · Monday at 15:25

Lot's of plans already made for Nissan to share Renault ev platform .. so I thing it needs to be a >threesome.

sovietspybob · Monday at 15:46

Nissan and Renault have had a long term partnership, they've shared lots for quite a long time now.

The latest Renault Kangoo van is exactly the same as the Nissan Townstar (which is also the same as the Mercedes interestingly..)

Very interesting times ahead all round in the automotive industry, especially for a lot of the Japanese brands which seem to have put their head in the sand regards EVs, even some with a big lead initially like Nissan.

Simon · Monday at 16:20

jpaul said:
Lot's of plans already made for Nissan to share Renault ev platform .. so I thing it needs to be a >threesome.

Zoe leaf ring any bells ?

jpaul · Monday at 17:22

OK - yes hadn't realised it had been a two way IP traffic .. but otherwise think of Nissan as a stagnating brand ~~rip Z cars~~ + brexit probably not helping to penetrate europe.

e: V
you hadn't wanted a z car

jpaul said:
or an older favourite
The Run - Nissan 350Z - Official Version in HD
... does not seem to be already referenced

adam cool dude · Monday at 22:04

Where does Renault come into this as they have been in cahoots with Nissan for over 25 years?

The P12 Primera was the first car of their alliance and a piece of rubbish after the P11 Primera. Going backwards in pretty much every way dynamically. The K11 Micra was the best super mini of the 90's. None of the other Micras since quite matched it.

Fact is Nissan have been churning out rubbish for quite some time now since their 80's and 90's heyday so it is of no surprise where they are now. They struck gold with the Qashqai getting in early but the other manufacturers soon caught up. Honda too have been totally lost in Europe at least. Both basically losing all market share to the Koreans.

I just had a quick look through both UK sites and Nissan offer 4 models of uninteresting rubbish and Honda are charging 26k basic for a Jazz and 35k basic for a Civic. Madness.

sovietspybob · 2024-12-24T08:53:09+0000

I remember reading an article 10 or 15 years ago about how could the Japanese manufactures cope with the influx of the Korean brands.

If you wanted posh you get a BMW or whatever premium brand, if you want reliable cheap transport you used to get a Nissan or Toyota but now you just buy a Kia instead as they're just as reliable and usefully cheaper so they lost most of their market in a few years.

You still however have the option for unreliable cheapish transport from any number of brands offered by Stallantis...

squerble · 2024-12-24T08:56:35+0000

adam cool dude said:
Fact is Nissan have been churning out rubbish for quite some time now since their 80's and 90's heyday so it is of no surprise where they are now. They struck gold with the Qashqai getting in early but the other manufacturers soon caught up. Honda too have been totally lost in Europe at least. Both basically losing all market share to the Koreans.

I just had a quick look through both UK sites and Nissan offer 4 models of uninteresting rubbish and Honda are charging 26k basic for a Jazz and 35k basic for a Civic. Madness.

I'm surprised that Honda and Nissan merging is being expected to make things work, for these points exactly. One has to expect both are in trouble for effectively betting against BEVs.

Jonnycoupe · 2024-12-24T09:05:08+0000

They need to catch up fast. So easier to get the return on investment with double the volumes. Anyone else would just subject the partner to big license fees and not developing their own IP. Pretty straightforward really.

sovietspybob · 2024-12-24T09:10:05+0000

Jonnycoupe said:
They need to catch up fast. So easier to get the return on investment with double the volumes. Anyone else would just subject the partner to big license fees and not developing their own IP. Pretty straightforward really.

Yeah i guess with just how eye wateringly expensive it is to develop a new platform of anything now it makes sense to have fewer, amalgamated groups like the VAG group or Stellantis. You just have to hope you make a decent EV platform (unlike what the Stellantis one has seems to be..) if you're going to base scores and scores of cars off it, it's a big gamble putting all your eggs in one basket but most have little choice.

Rroff · 2024-12-24T09:18:41+0000

Nissan has made some puzzling decisions in awhile and some of their vehicles have just priced themselves out of the market.

For example trying to sell the Xtrail at around the 40K point advertising it as if it has a level of off-road credibility which it really doesn't while paired up with uninspiring engine choices I'm not sure if desperation or clueless, which is a shame because the latest generation is not a bad looking vehicle.

Killing off the Micra seems an odd one to me as well.

adam cool dude · 2024-12-24T09:56:52+0000

Rroff said:
Nissan has made some puzzling decisions in awhile and some of their vehicles have just priced themselves out of the market.

For example trying to sell the Xtrail at around the 40K point advertising it as if it has a level of off-road credibility which it really doesn't while paired up with uninspiring engine choices I'm not sure if desperation or clueless, which is a shame because the latest generation is not a bad looking vehicle.

Killing off the Micra seems an odd one to me as well.

Honda too. I was looking at the prices yesterday. Entry point for a Jazz is £26k yet a Kia Picanto is £15k entry price or a Stonic £21k. Even the Ceed is only 23k entry and that is bigger class of car. All of those have 7 year warranty too.

Terminal_Boy · 2024-12-24T10:05:24+0000

sovietspybob said:
Nissan and Renault have had a long term partnership, they've shared lots for quite a long time now.

My Dacia Duster has Nissan stickers and parts under the bonnet for this very reason.

Rroff · 2024-12-24T15:57:42+0000

adam cool dude said:
Honda too. I was looking at the prices yesterday. Entry point for a Jazz is £26k yet a Kia Picanto is £15k entry price or a Stonic £21k. Even the Ceed is only 23k entry and that is bigger class of car. All of those have 7 year warranty too.

And the primary customer for the Jazz, albeit not what the car was aimed at, is the money conscious retiree who values practicality and convenience of a smaller car. Even Kia though aren't as cheap as they used to be Vs brands like Honda.