Honest thoughts on what to do as a mature student with little experience

[CharliePA]

Hi all,

I graduated last year at the age of 33 with a Business & Management degree (upper 2:1) from the OU and have since then been applying for roles in a wide range of sectors.

That wide range reflects just how scattered my focus is, as there are many fields that interest me in some way -- although none totally satisfies my interests, something I'm prepared to overlook just to get on.

Now 34 and considering how to upskill, including through learning coding from scratch -- something I'd rather not do given it's another unpaid learning process and renders my four years of study largely pointless -- I'm once again paralysed by analysis.

I really have no idea where to focus my efforts. I've tried roles in business analysis, finance, administration, marketing and strategy to no avail, orienting my CV each time to those fields as much as I can given my lack of professional experience in them (I worked in hospitality and pursued writing projects under my own steam in the years preceding my studies).

If an application within one of those fields had transpired positively I'd have just gone along with it and started a career within it. But nothing did so now I'm at a loss.

I also face the strange situation of being older and knowing myself well enough to know those jobs will leave me feeling like a fraud (as writing is what I'd rather be doing, but I finally have come to accept its place as a hobby, for now), and experiencing daily cognitive dissonance from applying for roles that aren't really me, even though I'm technically interested in them, and yet knowing I have no choice but to build a career.

I'm not really sure what advice I'm actually seeking. Both general life advice and career skills advice, I guess (not asking for much).

Anyway, appreciate your thoughts...

C

 

[dowie]

Now 34 and considering how to upskill, including through learning coding from scratch -- something I'd rather not do given it's another unpaid learning process and renders my four years of study largely pointless -- I'm once again paralysed by analysis.

It's not something you need do full-time, unless you sign up for some bootcamp or something (which I guess might get you into a job).

It doesn't necessarily mean your other studying is pointless, you've got a degree, you could take a master's or MBA later etc. using that degree, some business knowledge is useful to have anyway.

Perhaps you don't become a full time developer but instead become a business analyst or a product manager etc.. being able to code can be useful in those developer adjacent roles too even if you're not necessarily required to write any; simply being able to read code and have some technical knowledge in general is helpful.

 

[Black Noir]

Echoing what @dowie has said, your degree is pretty generic and may actually be a benefit for senior positions if you did branch out into coding/software in future.

As a hiring manager I'd be interested in asking what has led you to the scenario where you're graduating aged 33 and I'd explore why you've decided to retrain and your motivations. Providing you have a genuine answer, that's going to be your biggest hurdle

 

[CharliePA]

Yeah, trying to put a positive spin on it is a big consideration. I really wish I was always someone who just wanted to do one, sensible thing and stick with that from a young age. Life would be somewhat more straight forward.

I hadn't expected my degree to attract this much indifference from employers. Trying to get onto the career ladder has proven near-impossible thus far. I'm even considering, sort of, a masters, just to boost my CV. It's overwhelming having so many options pulling me in so many directions.

 

[radderfire]

Do what you love, love what you do.

Don't do coding, it sucks unless you have a real passion for it.

You must have some strong interests, passions, that offer career or money making opportunities. Work out what they are, and then apply yourself. Try to cut the amount of thinking down to a minimum, and restrict how long you think about it before applying yourself to earning money. If you can find something that you love to do, and you can make enough money to survive off it, your life will be much more rewarding.

 

[CharliePA]

Do what you love, love what you do.

Don't do coding, it sucks unless you have a real passion for it.

You must have some strong interests, passions, that offer career or money making opportunities. Work out what they are, and then apply yourself. Try to cut the amount of thinking down to a minimum, and restrict how long you think about it before applying yourself to earning money. If you can find something that you love to do, and you can make enough money to survive off it, your life will be much more rewarding.

Hard to argue with that regarding coding...I'm interested in coding as a concept (I tend to be interested in most things), but it's definitely not a passion of mine.

Where my real interests/passions lie are in the creative side of things, unfortunately. But I'm also interested, genuinely so, in the world of global affairs and investments etc., it's just I don't have much to show for that, other than following events fairly closely.

I suspect business analysis would be a pretty varied role, and therefore be something I could stomach as a day job -- it's just getting the initial experience that's been so difficult.

 

[dowie]

I suspect business analysis would be a pretty varied role, and therefore be something I could stomach as a day job -- it's just getting the initial experience that's been so difficult.

What do you do at the moment?

BA roles can be a new grad jumping into a junior analyst type role or can be other technical people, devs, QA etc.. moving across into a BA role, or can be subject matter experts in a particular domain - the latter might be applicable if you've got X years in some industry and there are relevant software vendors for that industry.

I really have no idea where to focus my efforts. I've tried roles in business analysis, finance, administration, marketing and strategy to no avail

Getting a degree is a way to signify a desire to change career though I guess just blindly applying to stuff even if you try to tailor your CV could be rather hit & miss with no experience to pivot from and nothing to offer.

Think of it from an employer's perspective, a degree ticks a box perhaps but lots of people have degrees, generic grad schemes have a fair bit of competition and if you don't get one of those then what skills can you actually offer them? Is there anything relevant re: what you did previously?

You mention finance and administration - pursuing an accountancy qualification might help there, you could have perhaps done ATT without a degree and got a job in the finance dept of some company then pursued ACCA... I guess you could start to pursue ACCA or CIMA etc. now anyway. I'm out of date on this but one flatmate was working in tax for a big 4 firm post-uni, in his opinion (keeping in mind this was a while back and just the opinion of one guy) there were so many numpties in his intake failing exams, quitting etc.. that if someone actually applied to the firm with a few exam passes off their own back then it's quite a good thing.

That could apply to other areas too, I think you need to decide what you want to do first and foremost then commit to that area... that could involve going to meetups, finding some relevant internet forum, Reddit thingie, twitter communities etc.. read about it, network and get yourself started.

 

[CharliePA]

What do you do at the moment?

BA roles can be a new grad jumping into a junior analyst type role or can be other technical people, devs, QA etc.. moving across into a BA role, or can be subject matter experts in a particular domain - the latter might be applicable if you've got X years in some industry and there are relevant software vendors for that industry.



Getting a degree is a way to signify a desire to change career though I guess just blindly applying to stuff even if you try to tailor your CV could be rather hit & miss with no experience to pivot from and nothing to offer.

Think of it from an employer's perspective, a degree ticks a box perhaps but lots of people have degrees, generic grad schemes have a fair bit of competition and if you don't get one of those then what skills can you actually offer them? Is there anything relevant re: what you did previously?

You mention finance and administration - pursuing an accountancy qualification might help there, you could have perhaps done ATT without a degree and got a job in the finance dept of some company then pursued ACCA... I guess you could start to pursue ACCA or CIMA etc. now anyway. I'm out of date on this but one flatmate was working in tax for a big 4 firm post-uni, in his opinion (keeping in mind this was a while back and just the opinion of one guy) there were so many numpties in his intake failing exams, quitting etc.. that if someone actually applied to the firm with a few exam passes off their own back then it's quite a good thing.

That could apply to other areas too, I think you need to decide what you want to do first and foremost then commit to that area... that could involve going to meetups, finding some relevant internet forum, Reddit thingie, twitter communities etc.. read about it, network and get yourself started.

Currently doing a little part-time job in hospitality till I find something career-wise.

Thinking from an employer's POV is certainly humbling, yeah. Accounting is a funny one for me. It's the only module for which I achieved distinction, and I weirdly enjoyed trying to diagnose issues, AND getting those qualifications are a good way to upskill, which other areas don't really have, but I've never super-seriously considered it for various reasons (mainly its reputation of being stale). Maybe, come to think of it, that should be my sole 'realistic day job' focus, as opposed to just one of many. Something to consider for sure...thanks!

As for roles extending from interests/hobbies...I suppose writing-related would some sort of editing, journalism...that sort of thing...which would be cool, but again I have no credentials so probably best avoided.

 

[dowie]

As for roles extending from interests/hobbies...I suppose writing-related would some sort of editing, journalism...that sort of thing...which would be cool, but again I have no credentials so probably best avoided.

I mean there is probably enough competition there among English or Journalism grads and they likely have work experience/internships etc. Nothing to stop you from having a side interest, starting a substack etc..

I do know an accountant who is also a BA/consultant... he started off in software with only a few accountancy exams (was told the firm would pay for more but they didn't, he paid for them himself regardless), he's now an independent contractor earning a nice daily rate.

I've also worked with a law graduate BA/consultant (I'm not sure if she was a solicitor for a bit too), if you're working on something that impacts a whole load of areas in say a bank then you encounter a bunch of different people - both cases regulatory change type stuff can make BAs with relevant legal or accounting education very useful.

Basically, you can take an interest in more than one thing but it can be a lot of work, if you work in tech first and want an additional qual like ACCA because it's relevant to your BA/consulting role then that's a lot of studying, especially if you're also traveling around, living in hotels and doing consulting work as your day job. Likewise, if you're doing a regular accounting job but fancy moving into more of a tech consultancy-type role then you might be jumping into the deep end trying to learn some vendor's software to a decent level when you've spent the last few years studying for exams and doing auditing or whatever regular accountancy work you've been engaged in.

Maybe you could learn some really common software and go contracting... perhaps do some salesforce training and become a salesforce consultant or learn SAP or something... either of those would give you some general being a tech guy/doing basic consultancy type stuff for corporates... you then have "a" skillset and could perhaps join one of the consulting arms of the big accounting firms or someplace like Accenture and get more generic consulting gigs, pick up some other skill sets and perhaps find your niche?

 

[redfist]

Have you thought about temp work in the area’s your interested rather than the hospitality your currently doing. That would give you experience in the roles and potentially if your good they maybe able to offer you a permanent role?

 

[dowie]

^^^ as @redfist suggested

Perhaps you could do something like a junior accounts assistant role at least instead of some random hourly hospitality job:

Accounts Assistant Jobs | Reed.co.uk

Find Accounts Assistant jobs with Reed.co.uk. Discover Accounts Assistant vacancies on offer, across the UK, helping you ❤ Mondays.

www.reed.co.uk

Start studying for the first ACCA exams or whatever, maybe there would be a perm role available in the company you end up with or maybe you use the experience + exam passes to apply for some sort of junior/trainee accounting positon?

Have you tried firms like this though?

EY to no longer consider degrees or A-level results when choosing employees

EY’s managing partner for talent, said she hoped the new policy would 'open up opportunities for talented individuals regardless of their background'

www.independent.co.uk

One of Britain’s biggest graduate recruiters will no longer consider degree or A-level results when assessing potential employees.

EY, the global accountancy firm, announced that it was scrapping the requirement for applicants to have a minimum 2:1 degree pass or Ucas point score of 300 (the equivalent of three B grades at A-level).

 

[throwaway4372]

Aren't there loads of generic "manager" jobs?
I.e. someone who recruits, deals with holiday/sickness, has 1:1 meetings with reports, attends meetings on behalf of the team, etc.?
Surely every sector needs these people?

 

[mid_gen]

Aren't there loads of generic "manager" jobs?
I.e. someone who recruits, deals with holiday/sickness, has 1:1 meetings with reports, attends meetings on behalf of the team, etc.?
Surely every sector needs these people?

It's very difficult/impossible to do those jobs well without a decent understanding of the business domain.

Realistically, to get an actual job like that, you're probably going to need to start off in a non-management role and learn the business, then progress to management.

 

[radderfire]

You need to tell us specifically what your interests/passions are.

 

[dowie]

Aren't there loads of generic "manager" jobs?

Yes, there are, though lots of them require management experience.

It's very difficult/impossible to do those jobs well without a decent understanding of the business domain.

Nah not necessarily, the poster was referring to generic "manager" roles, I know someone who has done these for years - they've been a manager or deputy manager at a leisure centre, a fast food restaurant, a cinema, a tourist attraction etc... they've been able to jump between these roles because they have prior experience managing teams not because they necessarily have any domain knowledge.

In each of those cases, they're managing fairly large teams of low paid full time and part-time employees.

 

[CharliePA]

Thanks a lot for the replies, everyone... Apologies for the silence...I've been away doing some thinking, despairing, and some applications...

My problem is I'm interested in too many things. To me, everything has an interesting aspect, and it leaves me somewhat lost or overwhelmed at all the options. And unsure of what my passions are as I don't know how to identify when an interest is a passion.

I'm also trying to keep my scope realistic. As in, not applying for anything too high-calibre: my degree is a 2:1 from the Open University, which is definitely not even mid-tier, and I wonder if that's partly why I've received only a muted response so far.

I've been applying for analyst roles, as I did earlier in the year, with a view of getting into BA, but we'll see if anyone bites...

Also, I'm still considering getting into coding. That'd make my skill set directly relevant to roles -- do you think it'd mitigate the negatives of my age (34) and unimpressive CV when applying for coding jobs? It's definitely not been a life-long passion of mine, but it does interest me how you can make something from nothing.

Cheers for any responses!

 

[dowie]

Also, I'm still considering getting into coding. That'd make my skill set directly relevant to roles -- do you think it'd mitigate the negatives of my age (34) and unimpressive CV when applying for coding jobs? It's definitely not been a life-long passion of mine, but it does interest me how you can make something from nothing.

Some programming roles are to some extent self-selecting, granted plenty of people can learn a bit of python or java and work on simple problems, likewise plenty of people can build a UI or do some web development etc. if you can tackle more difficult problems then there is potentially more $$$ available.

You don't necessarily need any qualifications in order to be a programmer, it's useful to have a degree of course but if some crypto firm wants to hire a smart contract developer or whatever they're going to be more interested in what you can do, especially if such a job is remote too, for that sort of role it's more likely your GitHub or similar that will be relevant.

 

[throwaway4372]

Also, I'm still considering getting into coding. That'd make my skill set directly relevant to roles -- do you think it'd mitigate the negatives of my age (34) and unimpressive CV when applying for coding jobs?

(Trying to be kind and stop you wasting your time) - you won't get coding jobs. You'll be up against people with degrees in computer science and years of experience, and younger so easier to push around, you won't get interviews. You also won't be able to self-teach to a sufficient level on your own.

There are jobs around the edges of coding, e.g. project manager, product manager, manual software tester. You might be able to get basic qualifications fairly easily to get your first job in one of those positions. Then you can really see how coding teams work and decide for yourself.

 

[CharliePA]

(Trying to be kind and stop you wasting your time) - you won't get coding jobs. You'll be up against people with degrees in computer science and years of experience, and younger so easier to push around, you won't get interviews. You also won't be able to self-teach to a sufficient level on your own.

There are jobs around the edges of coding, e.g. project manager, product manager, manual software tester. You might be able to get basic qualifications fairly easily to get your first job in one of those positions. Then you can really see how coding teams work and decide for yourself.C

Honest responses is what I like/need! Thanks.

So you think those fields you mention look more kindly on older applicants?

 

[throwaway4372]

Yeah I know they are.

Especially testing, manual testing just requires a brain and patience, and there's scope to do some automation of your tests (coding) which almost inevitably comes up and the manual testers willing to embrace that do better.