That would be a nice lifestyle to have for sure, working remotely in crypto!
I think what i need is for one application to succeed, then I'll just roll with whatever career path that starts me on...till then I'll be somewhat all over the place.
Honest thoughts on what to do as a mature student with little experience
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I think what i need is for one application to succeed, then I'll just roll with whatever career path that starts me on...till then I'll be somewhat all over the place.
Well I guess you could always get a QA job as per the suggestion of the other poster and then transition into a dev role from there if you find you like it, application support analyst is the common entry-level type positon in software firms (note not IT helpdesk but actually analysing issues with the software and liaising with development teams etc..).
In both those cases, some coding skills can be usefull, if you're a support guy then digging into the code to try and solve an issue can be useful (certainly could make you stand out vs the typical application support types) - general all round techie skills count there too; good knowledge of SQL, basic unix/linux command line stuff etc.
QA and software delivery teams (these might be colocated and managed by the same overall manager) sometimes have internal developers - these people don't work on the application itself but write code for internal automated testing tools for the QA analysts to use and tools to automate aspects related to the delivery of software upgrades, fixes etc.. so that could be a very easy dev job to progress into as a QA analyst, it doesn't even necessarily require you getting approval from a manager for an internal move, you could stay in the same team you're in as a QA analyst and start picking up a little bit of dev work in addition to your QA/testing stuff. It's perhaps a bit less pressure too, you potentially break an internal tool and look a bit foolish to your immediate colleagues rather than break a client's production system and look foolish to a whole bunch of people it gets escalated to.
Thanks for the response, very detailed and a whole new branch of jobs to consider...which is somewhat overwhelming. I have no idea about QA but it what you've plotted out there certainly makes sense as something that could work.
I'll have a look at QA roles in my city, and perhaps even London if that's where I have to go for work, and see what sorts of 'requirements' the roles tend to have. Cheers!
QA analyst and application support analyst roles won't have too much, some SQL, unix/linux etc.. is useful these sorts of roles can be suitable for a grad hire, I guess some small to mid-sized software/tech company where there isn't too much competition for roles might be worth a shot, they'll maybe just want someone ideally with a degree, smart enough (some places will have little aptitude tests), and with at least a little bit of general tech knowledge... beyond that (for small/mid-sized companies) it can simply be a case of will this person fit into the team/would you and the team get on with them etc..
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Calling a spade, a spade here... you don't seem that interested by coding.
Unless you're passionate about a role how will you expect to build up a good portfolio of work to show prospective employers? I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue it but at least if you went the traditional route and did some certifications with a specific job in mind you would be able to gain some tangible qualifications that might help you in a different role.
I can't think of anything worse than someone saying they're not that interested but then expect them to commit to building a portfolio of work.
If you were young I'd suggest volunteering or an internship so you could "see" the sort of roles out there.
Unless you're passionate about a role how will you expect to build up a good portfolio of work to show prospective employers? I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue it but at least if you went the traditional route and did some certifications with a specific job in mind you would be able to gain some tangible qualifications that might help you in a different role.
I can't think of anything worse than someone saying they're not that interested but then expect them to commit to building a portfolio of work.
If you were young I'd suggest volunteering or an internship so you could "see" the sort of roles out there.
You're right. It does seem like a lot of creative as well as technical endeavour to undertake, so without passion for it...it'd be somewhat challenging.
My main passion is writing (fiction), as well as some other financially-challenged pursuits, so finding another 'true' passion would be quite difficult. I think that's the appeal of business analysis; it seems engaging and I like the sound of the analytical elements, among others.
Obviously, now I wish I wasn't a 'creative' sort, and had just one financially-sensible pursuit from high school age that I wanted to focus on...that's part of the awkward position I'm in, I guess. I know what I like, and who I am, but I'm having to pretend that side of me doesn't really exist.
My main passion is writing (fiction), as well as some other financially-challenged pursuits, so finding another 'true' passion would be quite difficult. I think that's the appeal of business analysis; it seems engaging and I like the sound of the analytical elements, among others.
Obviously, now I wish I wasn't a 'creative' sort, and had just one financially-sensible pursuit from high school age that I wanted to focus on...that's part of the awkward position I'm in, I guess. I know what I like, and who I am, but I'm having to pretend that side of me doesn't really exist.
I can empathise a little in that I enjoy writing and am more passionate about that than the sort of stuff I typically do in work. One of the reasons I frequent this forum is because it is a rare opportunity to write prose. I completed an PG DIp with OU when I was 31 and then topped it up to a MSc at 36.
Maybe where I'm a bit different is that during that period I had a career developing in the background so whilst I've never got to pursue my passion and be a journalist or whatever, I have at least been able to earn a reasonable living.
It sounds like you need to get a foot in the door, a 2:1 is good enough to get you onto a graduate scheme, have you looked into that at all? They are tailor made for people with degrees and limited practical experience, although some may have an innate bias towards younger candidates as they will consider them more malleable. If you can get on one than after 2 years you'll naturally have built experience to use as a stepping stone to another job.
Maybe where I'm a bit different is that during that period I had a career developing in the background so whilst I've never got to pursue my passion and be a journalist or whatever, I have at least been able to earn a reasonable living.
It sounds like you need to get a foot in the door, a 2:1 is good enough to get you onto a graduate scheme, have you looked into that at all? They are tailor made for people with degrees and limited practical experience, although some may have an innate bias towards younger candidates as they will consider them more malleable. If you can get on one than after 2 years you'll naturally have built experience to use as a stepping stone to another job.
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Yeah, you did it the sensible way around...I really did put all my eggs in one basket, like a genius, and I'm not scrambling to make up for that mistake. Still wanting to write, though, but need to 'get real' and get that foot in the door.
I've tried grad schemes, yeah -- many of them. I've wondered about the preference for younger grads, as I always made solid applications and did well in aptitude tests, but who knows...I've tried applying to enough of them to know they're not the best time focus, I think.
I think trying to get some sort of analyst role, to then move into BA eventually is my best shot. Maybe take some Tableau and SQL courses on the side or before the analyst positions to make it clear what my focus is. Even so, finding a job description that doesn't ask for some experience is extremely rare. I seriously wonder where on Earth people get their first jobs! Maybe I'm not looking 'low' enough, even with junior/entry positions.
I've tried grad schemes, yeah -- many of them. I've wondered about the preference for younger grads, as I always made solid applications and did well in aptitude tests, but who knows...I've tried applying to enough of them to know they're not the best time focus, I think.
I think trying to get some sort of analyst role, to then move into BA eventually is my best shot. Maybe take some Tableau and SQL courses on the side or before the analyst positions to make it clear what my focus is. Even so, finding a job description that doesn't ask for some experience is extremely rare. I seriously wonder where on Earth people get their first jobs! Maybe I'm not looking 'low' enough, even with junior/entry positions.
What do you mean by "some sort of analyst role, to then move into BA eventually"?
A BA is a "Business analyst", there are also data or business intelligence analysts, support analysts, quality assurance analysts etc..
SQL is useful in general, tableau is perhaps useful for BI/data analyst roles though some BA roles might overlap a bit and be quite data-focused.
A BA is a "Business analyst", there are also data or business intelligence analysts, support analysts, quality assurance analysts etc..
SQL is useful in general, tableau is perhaps useful for BI/data analyst roles though some BA roles might overlap a bit and be quite data-focused.
Soldato
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What are the other financially-challenged pursuits? If you have a passion for writing could I suggest that you also try and get some sort of paid work doing this as a sideline, and keep thinking how you could make money from this. In general, writing jobs seem hard work and poorly paid, but just do it almost as a hobby and as a channel to indulge your interest. Writing for websites and magazines would pay you something, I know it's hard to start, but just keep trying.
The lack of focus thing is something I can relate to. You really do need to focus your mind on what you would enjoy spending your time doing that also pays you enough to get by. I know that's not easy, but the key thing is to choose something you actually enjoy, as that will make things a lot easier for you. Do some hard thinking about this, and then you can identify what you actually are / want to be, and then you can start working towards it. Put a time limit on how long you will allow yourself to decide though, otherwise you will remain unfocused. In the meantime, keep up the writing as a sideline to keep yourself busy, and you never know, it might open some doors.
The lack of focus thing is something I can relate to. You really do need to focus your mind on what you would enjoy spending your time doing that also pays you enough to get by. I know that's not easy, but the key thing is to choose something you actually enjoy, as that will make things a lot easier for you. Do some hard thinking about this, and then you can identify what you actually are / want to be, and then you can start working towards it. Put a time limit on how long you will allow yourself to decide though, otherwise you will remain unfocused. In the meantime, keep up the writing as a sideline to keep yourself busy, and you never know, it might open some doors.
I've heard people describing a possible path to becoming a BA involving being an analyst in a focused area, such as a data analyst or QA, then move into BA. Of course, it seems those are also pretty tough to get, but besides junior BA roles, I haven't found another path into BA.
Financially-challenged pursuits are all the usual creative suspects: writing is the main one, then there's an interest in acting, film-making and other things, but I've tried to just focus on writing to avoid being spread too thin.
Something I'd actually enjoy in the world of work...I have no idea what that'd be, to be honest, even after much consideration. I suspect the closest I can get to that is something that's engaging enough to make the hours pass quick, and which perhaps includes an aspect that I'm interested in, such as global affairs or the business world. I actually tried to focus on 'finance' jobs, but didn't get anywhere; I think the demands from employers are understandably high -- too high for my CV.
Soldato
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What kind of things have you written and have you ever got paid for anything?
I write prose; genre fiction is the main focus, but really I just like strong concepts in any genre. And no, I have never been paid for any writing.
In a strange way, that's why studying business management worked: it was the complete opposite of writing, and yet had aspects that interest me, such as strategy and business world. I'd tried academic degrees before and couldn't sustain interest.
So I think that's another appeal of BA, that it's the opposite to my passion in many respects.
It's just a case of getting my foot in the door.
So I think that's another appeal of BA, that it's the opposite to my passion in many respects.
It's just a case of getting my foot in the door.
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Soldato
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Set yourself a challenge of trying to get paid to write something. There are various freelance sites out there that will pay writers. Otherwise try writing on topics relevant to the job application and submit articles to relevant websites. This is just as a sideline though, carry on with a focus on getting a job.
I'd say SQL is more useful than Tableau because most data-related jobs can make at least some use of SQL somewhere along the line, whereas Tableau is a proprietary tool that a given organisation simply may not use.
As for people getting first jobs I think it is a mix of:
- Graduate entry
- Recommendations / family ties
- Taking a rubbish job and then moving internally (this is what I did when starting out) - a lot easier to give confidence to the hiring managers if they have evidence of what you can do
- Really tailoring their CV / application for a particular role, maybe even exaggerating their experience
- Scattergun approach, just blasting out dozens and dozens of applications until something sticks
- Undertaking some sort of vocational training with close ties to getting taken on afterwards / work experience / apprenticeships etc
- Recognising what really is a junior job that more experienced candidates are unlikely to apply for, and taking the requirements with a pinch of salt. e.g. they want a couple of years experience in the domain, but they aren't paying enough for that
Thanks a lot! That's a great list...1, 3, 4 and 7 seem like good shouts. 3 might actually have to be what I opt for...again...having tried really basic admin jobs before but getting nowhere because of the high temping rate for those jobs, so they all asked for a lot of experience. Will give it another try, though...
Maybe. Seems like a whole additional thing to learn and adapt to, on top of the job search, so maybe not now, though.
It's for sure quite hard to identify the right 'basic' job from the outside. I'd say ideally you want something with:
- Transferrable skills, rather than working with proprietary processes and systems specific to that organisation (or worse, department). I fell foul of this a bit and it took me a long time to move out of a crap job because whilst it was a relatively skilled/technical job, it wasn't doing things that would be recognised much elsewhere.
- Has ties to other departments so you can network with and learn about the work being done in other departments. e.g. an admin assistant that interfaces with an accounts or marketing department, that maybe opens up opportunities to spiderweb. What you don't want is like a job where you are locked in a silo, unless it's giving you good experience to take elsewhere
- Is in a large organisation with lots of churn and hence opportunities to move around in different roles.
Regarding getting paid to write, I have a friend (haven't spoken to her in years mind) who moved abroad and took up freelance writing. She would do all these random articles for websites and stuff but the pay was (understandably) really bad. She also wrote some lewd fantasy fiction under a pseudonym - was a slow burn but I think she's doing OKish out of it now judging from her youtube presence, Patreon etc, can probably scrape a living from it.