You say that, but I had 2 estate agents come around, and only one seemed to 'care' about the house price. The first wanted to list our house for about £90k less than what it has 'sold' for. Based on his history, it would be a possibility that he is a developer himself so he'd get a proxy in to buy the house for himself.
House Buying/Selling - unnecessary stress?
- Thread starter RedvGreen
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You say that, but I had 2 estate agents come around, and only one seemed to 'care' about the house price. The first wanted to list our house for about £90k less than what it has 'sold' for. Based on his history, it would be a possibility that he is a developer himself so he'd get a proxy in to buy the house for himself.
You say it shouldn't affect much, but from the seller's perspective, each day is painful, and each week is tedious beyond belief. Every single negative possibility is running through your mind...
1. Are the buyers genuine?
2. Are they someone I cheesed off, or a friend of someone I did?
3. Maybe they're hiding from not being able to buy it, but haven't the cajones to say?
4. The deal will fall through, and all the surveys i've paid for are wasted.
5. Maybe I best off just cancel the sale altogether and save myself hassle and upset...
etc
Caporegime
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Just completed on a house last week. Totally insane, we had to exchange contracts and complete the following day to work to some insane time schedule the seller was determined had to be met so his new property wouldn't be lost.
Solicitors seem to be in a world of their own, and depending on which member of their team you got through too they gave totally different verdicts on the stumbling blocks along the way.
Solicitors seem to be in a world of their own, and depending on which member of their team you got through too they gave totally different verdicts on the stumbling blocks along the way.
That's true but as they still havnt found a property or made an offer then we have that going for us
The only reason I think they will pull out is they purchased the house for 187500 and our offered was accepted at 159000 so it's a big loss.
It's annoying because we are in the position to get the mortgage and almost all of the slots are filled with people simply enquiring about a mortgage without any need for one at the time.
I have a telephone meeting next week with a different bank so may just go with them as it's the same rate.
Soldato
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I am currently trying to sell a flat, and have to say it's a pain in the...
in scotland you have to commission the "home report" which is a survey so basic that if you don't see anything pointed out in a home report when viewing, you must not have eyes!
so that's about £400 away before you start - then if someone wants to get a mortgage, you have to re-do the home report so it's less that x number of days old, depending on the lender - obviously surveyors don't do anything for nothing either
I have had a few people looking at buying, a note of interest from a solicitor and then a guy who was a "cash buyer" that made an appointment to see the estate agent and subsequently disappeared off the face of the planet (won't even respond to his own solicitors calls!)
All the mucking around starts to grate on you...
annoyingly I need the money before I can buy the plot I have my eye on, but no doubt it will sell just before a sale goes through!
in scotland you have to commission the "home report" which is a survey so basic that if you don't see anything pointed out in a home report when viewing, you must not have eyes!
so that's about £400 away before you start - then if someone wants to get a mortgage, you have to re-do the home report so it's less that x number of days old, depending on the lender - obviously surveyors don't do anything for nothing either
I have had a few people looking at buying, a note of interest from a solicitor and then a guy who was a "cash buyer" that made an appointment to see the estate agent and subsequently disappeared off the face of the planet (won't even respond to his own solicitors calls!)
All the mucking around starts to grate on you...
annoyingly I need the money before I can buy the plot I have my eye on, but no doubt it will sell just before a sale goes through!
Why on earth would the agent give two blinks to your desire to knock money off the price you agreed upon. Like ALL business the agent is there to represent their clients best interests. The fact they get paid commission has nothing to do with the buyer what so ever. What, they should do it for free?
There are too many people out there who moan when the agent doesn't do what they want. Sure stamp your feet- the agent will quite rightly tell you to jog on and sell the house to someone else for more money.
Either get with the programme or carry on whining and never buy anything.
Yes there are bad ones but there are also many very caring intelligent and committed individuals out there who do a damn good job of looking after their clients.
Shoe other foot- agent- 'hello mr vendor, your buyer would like to knock 20k off because he thinks he needs to redecorate the lounge'
Mr vendor - 'tell them to get lost or I'll resell it to someone else'
Agent- !ok mr vendor'.
Then you whinge because you don't get what you want.funny that.
Associate
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You're assuming that when I approached the EA about deductions it was for simple cosmetic redecorations. That's not the case. I'm talking structural issues and asbestos - major problems. The buyer has ZERO representation/power when it comes to this stuff, yet the seller has bundles. It's not right.
Of course you have power. The power to pull out of the proposed contract unless the terms are adjusted (the price).
There is no binding agreement until you exchange, meaning everything that goes on up till this point is purely negotiation, including the costs you have incurred to get to that point (surveys, legal costs) - they are your 'due diligence'.
There is no binding agreement until you exchange, meaning everything that goes on up till this point is purely negotiation, including the costs you have incurred to get to that point (surveys, legal costs) - they are your 'due diligence'.
Associate
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Is that power? You have no power of persuasion. There is no requirement for the vendor to drop the price for any reason at all, and you have the EA acting directly *against* you as a buyer. There's no power there, for the buyer. It's all stacked in favour of the EA and the vendor, and the solicitors have basically nothing to gain either way from a sale going through or falling through.
So whet does the agent do then? The vendor is fully expecting the agent to look after them. Therefore why would the agent agree with the buyer to the detriment of their client? Why? The vendor simply ditch them and go find an agent that will fight for their best interests.
It's not the agents fault at all - you want to pay less , the vendor wants as much as possible and both of you expect the agent to do as they are told - because YOU want what's best for YOU.
Who the heck do you think the agent is going to represent? The people paying their commission and expecting then to do a good job thats who.
If it were the other way around the agent would never sell anything but hey, at least the buyer is happy because agents are all scum who only care about money and nothing else.
Try that approach in the business world and see how far it gets you.
It's not the agents fault at all - you want to pay less , the vendor wants as much as possible and both of you expect the agent to do as they are told - because YOU want what's best for YOU.
Who the heck do you think the agent is going to represent? The people paying their commission and expecting then to do a good job thats who.
If it were the other way around the agent would never sell anything but hey, at least the buyer is happy because agents are all scum who only care about money and nothing else.
Try that approach in the business world and see how far it gets you.
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I honestly don't know what you're arguing with me about. I'm not saying that EAs are doing their job wrong - I think they are doing their job ruthlessly well. I'm saying that the way the whole system operates is poor and terribly stacked against the buyer, and EAs are absolutely largely responsible for that. The system needs to change such that buyers have proper power to negotiate with vendors - currently they don't. This is basically the opposite of all other industries, where the buyer is the one with the majority of the power. There needs to be an even playing field and there is not, currently, in my direct experience.
I can understand your frustration, but you just have to step outside it and see it for what it is. The EA is not there to represent your best interests - they are merely a means of connecting sellers with buyers.
Money is all you can use as your bargaining chip, as there is no ongoing relationship after the sale has gone through to make the agent/vendor want to keep you 'sweet'. It's a one shot deal and there is always the possibility of another buyer coming along who will just pay the asking, or over the asking, and give them much less hassle than someone trying it on (trying it on in the sense of wanting to do more than just hand over the money and complete the transaction).
Forgive me I'm not meaning to come across argumentative but I'm so exhausted by the continuos bashing of agents. I agree the pointy shoed, silver Primark suited, gelled haired typically thick agents should frankly be put back into college to learn a skill but, the better ones don't deserve to be tarred with the same brush.
I know it's frustrating as a buyer but you must see it from the other side.
Soldato
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as a seller, I have paid an estate agent an upfront fee of nearly £500, then when it sells they get a further 1% of the sale value - I would be livid if i thought the agent was there trying to get my sale value down for a potential buyer that has paid them nothing!
the agent isn't working against a buyer as it's in their interest to sell a property
the agent isn't working against a buyer as it's in their interest to sell a property
This is EXACTLY the point I have been making
Most Estate Agents have no upfront cost - this therefore makes them equally interested in both the Buyer and the Seller. Obviously once their Seller signs up with them it is important to retain them (no cash if they go elsewhere).
We nearly pulled out of our house sale (due to what I mentioned in the OP), and our Estate Agent went above and beyond the call of duty to try to get us to keep the house on the market - in-so-far-as to hassle the buyer to speed things up.
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I completely agree with what you are both saying - it's absolutely not unexpected that the EA is acting on behalf of the vendor, since they are their direct customer - if they didn't do all they could to keep the price up they'd be rubbish at their job. However the issue is that the buyer agrees the purchase price BEFORE they know of any defects with the property, which are only evident once the BUYER pays to have the surveys done. If, say, £20k worth of major issues are discovered that must be sorted prior to being able to move in, the vendor is under no obligation whatsoever to drop the price once requested by the buyer via the EA, and the EA and the vendor's solicitor will obviously fight and fight and give any reason they can why they won't drop the price, because it would mean they all receive less between them. Therefore the buyer has zero bargaining power in a market such as we're in right now where there are tonnes of buyers and a massive shortage of stock = huge competition between buyers. All the EA and Solicitor need to say is "hey, you're welcome to pull out - we've got other buyers lined up". That's a terrible system. There's almost zero incentive for negotiation on the vendor's part.
This is not a fair system, in my experience. It's bizarre in the extreme that you would agree a price for a product before you know what condition it's in. Imagine if this were the Bay and you wanted to buy a used car from a seller there. You wouldn't say "I commit, subject to contract, to paying you £5000 for your car, regardless of condition". You'd make damned sure its condition was reflected in the price first, or the seller would have to accept that it's not and drop the price accordingly once the issues are disclosed/discovered, and any reasonable person would be happy to negotiate, since they should know the issues prior to the sale. In the case of property selling, the vendor might not know of certain serious issues (mine had no idea the house was tip to toe in asbestos), but I seriously think they should have a contingency in place for unknown issues that arise from surveys and be ready to negotiate over these issues.
The process is utterly mental. In a buyers' market it's a little better, because the vendor will usually have to be more willing to neg on the sale price etc. But on those occasions you could argue it's all stacked against the vendor, which is no good either. What we need is a balance. Currently the majority of the time it's all stacked heavily against the buyer, and I think that's terribly wrong.
Where EAs come into all this is that they have enormous power and influence over the industry and its practices, and with such heavyweights involved there is very little anyone can hope to do to even the balance between buyer and seller. Solicitors need more power, in my opinion. Similarly, it is ridiculous that the potential buyer (not even the committed buyer!) must pay for surveys to be done to find out if there are issues with a property they don't even own yet. Then, if the buyer pulls out, the same batch of surveys are all paid for yet again by the next potential buyer ad infinitum. It's insane.
The vendor should absolutely have to pay for all surveys, once, and give them out free to potential buyers via the EA. The HBR was a step in the right direction but sadly was removed. Then it's all dead simple - "Here's my property with XYZ issues which we have had valued independently at ABC price." - then you negotiate a little here and there if necessary. Currently it's "Here's my property - I'm not disclosing any of the issues with it that I know about already, you're going to have to pay perhaps £800 or so to discover those issues, and once you let me know about them, I'm probably going to simply ignore them anyway, so you're pretty much wasting everyone's time even bothering.". That's not right. It's also bonkers that the buyer (the potential buyer!) then, on top of all this, must pay YET AGAIN to have the bank do a mortgage valuation survey, when one was done prior to the property going on the market.
And all this time, you're still not definitely getting the property, because at any point you or the vendor could pull out. But hey that's great flexibility for the buyer, right? Not really, because by the time you've gone all the way down this lengthy, painful process, you've probably paid something like £1500-£2000 just in survey and legal costs, and maybe anything up to £6000 in rent. So suddenly you're £8k down - of course you're not going to just jump ship at that point. You're so heavily invested in the process it's almost too late now. If you had to start over from scratch you'd lose another 6k in rent, another 2k in fees and maybe the next place you find will have worse problems or be in a less suitable location or just cost more for whatever reason. Enormous pressure and stress is put on you to keep on going, keep moving, keep your nerve and not let things get on top of you. All the while there are zero guarantees and you've got the property and the EA and vendor's solicitor fiercely fighting against you giving you every reason under the sun why their property will sell tomorrow if you pull out now and why the price is fair etc. etc. This all sounds great for the vendor, except that that same vendor is also a buyer, probably, or would be shortly afterwards...
It's a horrible process and needs to change, in my opinion and experience.
The Scottish system might in some way help you out there, as it's more about binding contracts at the offer stage.
Just remember you don't agree a price (not a binding one) at the offer stage. It's nothing more than a verbal agreement and the missives stage (solicitors) are where you get a chance to actually form a contract given what you now know.
I agree with you in as much as it's a process where probably 80% down the process you actually get to discuss changing the price, by which time everyone is so invested in time and money that it's seen as almost bad form (by British standards) to dare hold things up.
An upfront survey might possibly cut down the whole process hugely, although there is a conflict of interests depending on WHO actually pays for the thing. You probably go into some serious legal sticky areas as a surveyor having to balance getting a valuation right for the vendor now, rather than the the buyer, and also having to be honest, while at the same time not scaring off buyers in your report.
I'm currently in for 700 quid broker, 795 survey, 1500 mortgage application fee (if we get it), 1300 solicitor so I know all about upfront costs at the moment. Our mortgage is still being considered by underwriters as well so it might all go to pot.
Just remember you don't agree a price (not a binding one) at the offer stage. It's nothing more than a verbal agreement and the missives stage (solicitors) are where you get a chance to actually form a contract given what you now know.
I agree with you in as much as it's a process where probably 80% down the process you actually get to discuss changing the price, by which time everyone is so invested in time and money that it's seen as almost bad form (by British standards) to dare hold things up.
An upfront survey might possibly cut down the whole process hugely, although there is a conflict of interests depending on WHO actually pays for the thing. You probably go into some serious legal sticky areas as a surveyor having to balance getting a valuation right for the vendor now, rather than the the buyer, and also having to be honest, while at the same time not scaring off buyers in your report.
I'm currently in for 700 quid broker, 795 survey, 1500 mortgage application fee (if we get it), 1300 solicitor so I know all about upfront costs at the moment. Our mortgage is still being considered by underwriters as well so it might all go to pot.
Soldato
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I think that was true before the housing market went t!ts up, I spoke to five different agents and all had a "marketing fee" to be paid up front (obviously so that if somewhere doesn't sell for a year they have at least got something for it)
Obviously the system up here is a bit different in that we have to (legally) have a basic survey carried out (at the sellers cost) before the house can be sold - this survey also has a valuation on it, so that information is available to a buyer at the outset, and if they wish a full structural survey that is done at the buyers cost before the purchase
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The Scottish system sounds far more sane and balanced, although I think it's still unreasonable to force a potential, non-committed buyer to have to pay for a full structural survey. I think there should be full disclosure prior to putting any offers in.
nucastle your up-front costs are roughly what mine have been. crazy considering that your mortgage isn't even approved and the vendor could still pull out at any stage for any reason. best of luck!
nucastle your up-front costs are roughly what mine have been. crazy considering that your mortgage isn't even approved and the vendor could still pull out at any stage for any reason. best of luck!