How best to set network up going forward

Matt_Hirst · 7 Dec 2021 at 16:16

Been having a few issues since swapping to Vodafone, so now moving back to Plusnet, all the issues have made me think about the network I have and how it should be setup.

Currently I have Vodafone router => Netgear R7800.

The R7800 is then connected to:
* Wired home network, cat6, which covers upstairs only.
* Work PC.
* Devolo homeplug.

Upstairs we have:
* 3 tv with mix of wired / wireless connections.
* Each TV has a ROKU streamer attached (wireless network connection).

Downstairs we have:
* 1 TV connected wired via homeplug.
* 1 ROKU connected wireless.

We have 4 mobile phones, 4 tablets which connect wireless, also 2 servers connected via wire and homeplug, one is for backup of main pc (going to combine this into one server thought)

We are quite a bit away from the cabinet serving our fibre so max we can get is 31mbit.

The issues we have been having, I am told, are bandwidth related, this seems to have been helped by plugging the R7800 in and enabling QOS and using the Vodafone router / modem as just a modem. Note we didn't have issues with bandwidth previously with the plusnet modem and R7800 router etc.

My question is should or rather will there be any benefit to buying my own kit e.g. new modem and better wifi router, combined modem / router, modem + router + ubiquiti to replace homeplugs or ??? Or will I be wasting a load of money for little or no return?

Basically just want a good reliable service, kids not moaning about glitchy tv.

Any advice or help appreciated.

Matt

P.S. Am a networking novice so there will be lots of daft questions no doubt.

Rainmaker · 7 Dec 2021 at 18:29

All that info (most of which is very helpful, thanks for not being an annoying OP

), but no sign of what the 'issues' actually are that you're trying to solve... It's hard to make recommendations when we don't know what's actually broken or not working nicely for you. You talk about 'bandwidth issues' and 'glitchy TV', but what's that? Do you mean streaming to the Roku devices, or your Freeview is terrible? Is one device using the network bandwidth and the rest are dropping packets? We can't meaningfully answer until there's an actual clear question.

Matt_Hirst · 7 Dec 2021 at 19:44

Rainmaker said:
All that info (most of which is very helpful, thanks for not being an annoying OP ), but no sign of what the 'issues' actually are that you're trying to solve... It's hard to make recommendations when we don't know what's actually broken or not working nicely for you. You talk about 'bandwidth issues' and 'glitchy TV', but what's that? Do you mean streaming to the Roku devices, or your Freeview is terrible? Is one device using the network bandwidth and the rest are dropping packets? We can't meaningfully answer until there's an actual clear question.

Hi,

Sorry, we tend to see the Roku players going all glitchy (my daughters terms) so the picture is pixelated and then the swirly icon also losing the network completely, also phones tablets tend to be slow at accessing web pages. This was just with the vodafone router.

Speaking to Vodafone they said initially it was due to the Devollo homeplugs causing an issue, so I removed these and fitted one of Vodafones own mesh wifi boxes. No improvement.

Another call to Vodafone their tech guy said it was due to the speed I was receiving (unfortunately I cannot get any more due to where we are) and how it was been distributed or rather lack of distribution by the Vodafone hub (they don't have any QOS on the hubs anymore), this lead to me looking at reconnecting my netgear r7800 and using that which appears to have balanced out all the connections but it can still cause the Roku players to slowdown but nowhere near as bad as the vodafone router handling all the connections by itself.

At this point as I was still in Vodfaones cooling off period I cancelled Vodafone and have re signed back up to go to Plusnet (31mb again as it's all I can get).

All this hassle has made me question my whole setup and if there is anything I can do to improve it ready for when Plusnet takes over the service.

Am currently thinking going down the route of Draytek Vigor 130 or 166, connect that to my Netgear R7800 (though may look for something newer/better?). The router from here can feed my network (through patch panel to TP-Link TL-SG1024 switch) to the bedrooms and also the homeplugs dotted around the house.

Guess I am thinking that the internet speed I cannot change, but was kinda hoping better kit may manage the speed / throughput better or am I wrong?

Rainmaker · 7 Dec 2021 at 20:47

Thanks, much better. You didn't actually specify, but I'm assuming that the source of the Roku streaming is also local, for example from a NAS or whatever to the devices? Most of what you're describing sounds like poor WiFi more than anything else. My personal gold standard recommendation here (and, tbf, almost anywhere):

Modem for the *DSL line
x86 box serving as router, running OpenWrt with cake or IPFire/*Sense running fq_codel
Switch plugged into aforementioned x86 router, with all wired LAN devices plugged into it
Wireless access point plugged into the switch, serving the LAN's WiFi (eg 2nd hand Ruckus, Unifi, Omada)

Leave the homeplugs/powerline adapters in the drawer (or better yet just sell/recycle them). Wire in anything and everything you possibly can. For example, you can run a couple of cables per room back to the switch in a central location. You could also put a small cheap gigabit switch behind the TV unit/stand/whatever to wire in TV/Roku/TiVo/Sky/whatever and then have a single wire back from it to the main switch - nothing TV wise is going to get congested sharing a 1Gb uplink to the core switch.

If this isn't possible, get a cheap but decentish router for the WAN (even a £50 EdgeRouter will easily do for <35Mbps) and spend the extra on a good AP that you wire in and locate fairly centrally. Something like a 2nd hand Ruckus R710 will run you £150 to £200 but be solid no matter what you throw at them. They're designed for 250 to 1000 users in commercial settings and they are fantastic (from experience). Ubiquiti UniFi or TP-Link Omada stuff will be cheaper, and likely be more than adequate for what you need (albeit at the expense of poorer antennae and buggier firmware).

TLDR: spend the afternoon cabling things in. You can buy cables cheaply (cat 5e is fine), and either a staple gun or cable tacks along the wall. Alternatively - and nicer/neater - invest in some plastic trunking to run along the skirting and tuck them in there. It disappears from sight once stuck up and you can open and close to add/change cables as required. It's a few hours work but you'll never regret it.

Matt_Hirst · 7 Dec 2021 at 22:02

Rokus are wireless, they are either streaming Disney +, amazon prime or catchup or fed from one of the two servers.

The poor reception also happened with a wired appletv box whilst streaming disney +, this was whilst on the vidafone router, going through the r7800 it is less of an issue.

Running speedtest whilst having the issues it was all over the place from 2mb down to 34 mb down and anywhere in between. Again this was with everything going through the vodafone, through the r7800 it was consistent.

I must admit regards networking none of it sinks in with me, so apologies.

So start at the modem I've seen the Draytek vigor 130 go secondhand around £50 or around £100 new is this a good starting point or would you recommend something else?

This "x86 box serving as router, running OpenWrt with cake or IPFire/*Sense running fq_codel" I haven't got a clue what you mean or how to set this up.

Hopefully the above two for the basis to solve my problems.

Rainmaker · 7 Dec 2021 at 22:32

The 130 is a modem only, if I read correctly? I haven't been on *DSL since... 15 years ago? I wouldn't know where to start with that. Check out the BT/ADSL threads, but iirc the gist was a second hand OpenReach modem off eBay was the way to go.

I assume then the plan would be to replace the Voda router with the 130 modem, and keep the Netgear router? Do you have QoS set up? Worth a play if not, but from a read of the manual it's not clear what they're using as a backend.

Matt_Hirst · 8 Dec 2021 at 07:37

Thanks for the response.

After a bit of googling I see the x86 box is just a pc running software to act as my router and it is far more powerful than off the shelf routers so is fairly future proof. How difficult is it to setup?

So if I go this route I can buy a modem bt open reach or draytek, setup an old pc or buy a specific sff pc to act as router install the software you suggest. For now that would allow me to run the r7800 purely as a ap for now or until I can find a dedicated ap.

As said networking is not my thing.

BigT · 8 Dec 2021 at 08:09

In your opening post you said you never had the problems with plusnet. Now you’re going back to them might you not revert to what you had and see if the problems disappear thus not requiring you to spend any cash?

But if you do then modem + x86 based router is a fine solution. I’d not bother with a draytek modem. It’ll not offer you anything meaningful a second hand BTOR modem off eBay won’t give you.

As for ease of use of the router distributions, they’re OK but way more complicated than an off-the-shelf router because of the added feature set and complexity. You say networking is not your thing but you seem from your posts to be fairly savvy so with the help of YouTube videos and forums I’d guess you’ll be OK. Make sure your old PC you’ll repurpose (or buy) has two NICs, one to go to the modem and one for LAN. And if you use more than one of the LAN ports on your current router then you’ll need a switch too.

I also can’t help but think placement of whatever you use as an AP is important. You’ve cabled up upstairs so it may be multiple APs helps with some issues, but if going with the one then high and central is generally best provided the style of AP is designed to radiate out and down. If using your Netgear not sure that would apply - just don’t stick it in a corner hidden behind a TV or anything.

ChrisD. · 8 Dec 2021 at 08:26

Also check that your wifi channel setting is not competing with neighbours.

Matt_Hirst · 8 Dec 2021 at 10:18

BigT said:
In your opening post you said you never had the problems with plusnet. Now you’re going back to them might you not revert to what you had and see if the problems disappear thus not requiring you to spend any cash?

But if you do then modem + x86 based router is a fine solution. I’d not bother with a draytek modem. It’ll not offer you anything meaningful a second hand BTOR modem off eBay won’t give you.

As for ease of use of the router distributions, they’re OK but way more complicated than an off-the-shelf router because of the added feature set and complexity. You say networking is not your thing but you seem from your posts to be fairly savvy so with the help of YouTube videos and forums I’d guess you’ll be OK. Make sure your old PC you’ll repurpose (or buy) has two NICs, one to go to the modem and one for LAN. And if you use more than one of the LAN ports on your current router then you’ll need a switch too.

I also can’t help but think placement of whatever you use as an AP is important. You’ve cabled up upstairs so it may be multiple APs helps with some issues, but if going with the one then high and central is generally best provided the style of AP is designed to radiate out and down. If using your Netgear not sure that would apply - just don’t stick it in a corner hidden behind a TV or anything.

I'm going back as I know it worked OK ish, only reason I swapped was because I had a modem psu blow and they wanted to charge me for a new one as it wasn't covered (I had been with plusnet associated companies for many years, each renewal I never bothered with a new modem as didn't see the point as old one worked - if I had gone for a new modem the psu would have been replaced FOC, so decided to swap to another supplier).

I think what is best is as you say revert back to original setup, though I notice plusnet use a modem router nowadays. See if the WiFi can be disabled on this and run it in modem mode only, connect it to my netgear router.

Then once family is happy tv is back to normal, look at getting a separate box to act as a router for me to learn how it works, long term this seems the best option. I might also look to relocate my upstairs wired network into a small cabinet in my office for ease of access.

I can then add ap to the wired network as required to cover the house and garage.

Thanks for everyone's help so far.

Matt_Hirst · 8 Dec 2021 at 11:15

Just found out my old plusnet modems, knew they were here somewhere have a BT HG612 and a technicolor TG582n I presume the bt is the one to use.

BigT · 8 Dec 2021 at 11:43

Matt_Hirst said:
I think what is best is as you say revert back to original setup, though I notice plusnet use a modem router nowadays. See if the WiFi can be disabled on this and run it in modem mode only, connect it to my netgear router.

I think this is very sensible and patience will pay off here even if it doesn't get the kids off your back quickly. There might be all sorts that want addressing that have been mentioned in here. Placement, channel selection, QoS etc.. Heck if one of your kids has discovered torrents or peer-to-peer streaming that'll nuke your connection. Although you don't have huge amounts of internet bandwidth, your connection isn't ADSL archaic. HD streams I think tend to be 4Mbps so there should be enough for everyone at an acceptable level of performance.

I'm not au fait with them but walking round with a WiFi analyser on an Android device may well reveal more info to implement a long term solution.

Matt_Hirst · 8 Dec 2021 at 18:56

I've unlocked the hg612 and connected it to the wan port of the r7800 with vodafone.

The r7800 is connected to the home network and homeplugs to hopefully serve the house, will just see how it goes over the next few days, see if all devices play well.