How can we end political correctness?

Rich_L · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:01

Basically you just want unisex changing rooms you dirty perv

DavidMarq · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:01

Van_Dammesque said:
I would say this guy has defeated sexism, was there a "men only" sessions?
It was PC'ness that introduced women only session and not men only sessions!

Big up the man for fighting sexism, I feel that we (men) will have to fight a battle to reclaim true equality (insurance for one, sheila's wheels being specific).

Same for whites have to start a battle for true racial equality.

This is a great example where common sense has failed. This should not be an issue about sexism, It should not be an issue about PC. It should be an issue about choice.

Many women (especially munters

) feel embarrassed about displaying their bodies in front of men. The prefer to swim in same sex groups. Why should this be a problem?

If men have a requirement for a single sex session then let them. This is on the balance of probabilities is less likely as men tend to be happy to dangle their wangs in front of anyone.

I realise I am making sweeping generalisations to illustrate a point, but just because one sex has a particular requirement it does not necessarily mean than the opposite sex requires the same.

Again common sense and not a one rule fits all approach.

alexakasloth · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:02

Rich_L said:
Basically you just want unisex changing rooms you dirty perv

ROFL! Now that I could live with!

Van_Dammesque · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:10

$loth said:
How do you know what they are thinking, you're just pulling made-up assumptions from thin air.

I am plucking things out of air! I do not know the reason for woman wanting their own sex sessions, I am goin g by their actions though, which is clearly sexist.

I think you're being sexist now.

Really care to point out where I am? How can I be sexist if I want sexual equality? Or is this your last stand argument, insults?

I think the buisness is well within their rights to notice that men and women are different.

I will only repeat this again one more time, if I get no repsonse I will stop debating, since it will be an interrogation:

Van_Dammesque said:
What about a gym that said whites only, is this racism or just good business practice?

Van_Dammesque · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:11

DavidMarq said:
This is a great example where common sense has failed. This should not be an issue about sexism, It should not be an issue about PC. It should be an issue about choice.

Many women (especially munters ) feel embarrassed about displaying their bodies in front of men. The prefer to swim in same sex groups. Why should this be a problem?

If men have a requirement for a single sex session then let them. This is on the balance of probabilities is less likely as men tend to be happy to dangle their wangs in front of anyone.

I realise I am making sweeping generalisations to illustrate a point, but just because one sex has a particular requirement it does not necessarily mean than the opposite sex requires the same.

Again common sense and not a one rule fits all approach.

See my post above and my question.

EDIT: no body mentioning get their wangs out, so your are inventing circumstances to suit your argument.

DavidMarq · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:14

Van_Dammesque said:
What about a gym that said whites only, is this racism or just good business practice?

There is a fundamental biological difference between men and women. This is not the case between same sex people of different race. The two issues are not the same.

Admiral Huddy · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:17

Interesting comment some comedian made when being asked when he knows he is being IPC or not:

"When you have to look around before making a comment"

I think it was Jimmy Carr.

Me, I don't give a damn. I say what I think and if people are offended then that's there problem not mine.

PC = end of free speech.

not sure how we can end it though.. I guess people will just have enough and grow tired of it. I think a lot influence comes from our friends from over the pond.

DavidMarq · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:19

Van_Dammesque said:
EDIT: no body mentioning get their wangs out, so your are inventing circumstances to suit your argument.

I think it was quite obvious that the reference to wangs was light hearted. It was qualified in the next sentence down.

Van_Dammesque · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:25

DavidMarq said:
There is a fundamental biological difference between men and women. This is not the case between same sex people of different race. The two issues are not the same.

But the differences are not on show, people do wear appropriate swim wear!
We are not talking about a nudist swimming pool! :eek:

alexakasloth · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:29

Van_Dammesque said:
So you think businesses are within their right to allow sexist practices? What about a gym that said whites only, is this racism or just good business practice?

I think their is a point to women only sessions as DavidMarq has pointed out, but now you are making up completely un-realistic examples to prove your point, talk about inventing circumstances to suit your argument

Van_Dammesque · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:50

Sloth said:
I think their is a point to women only sessions as DavidMarq has pointed out, but now you are making up completely un-realistic examples to prove your point, talk about inventing circumstances to suit your argument

Are you delibtraely trying to wind me up?!

I said this:

Van_Dammesque said:
Why do woman want a woman only session? Embarrassment? They are not embarrassed to swim in front of other women, so it is sexism. What are they implying about men? That we are all drooling maniacs? That we would stand and point and laugh at the fat etc...?

Then you reply:

Sloth said:
How do you know what they are thinking, you're just pulling made-up assumptions from thin air.

Yet when DavidMarq replies with this:

DavidMarq said:
Many women (especially munters ) feel embarrassed about displaying their bodies in front of men. The prefer to swim in same sex groups.

You agree with him!

As to your point:

making up completely un-realistic examples to prove your point, talk about inventing circumstances to suit your argument

Firstly, it is an analogy to prove my point since you cannot grasp it directly.
Secondly, why is it "completely un-realistic examples"? Is it becasue you are afraid to answer my question directly? Is it becasue you agree with me that a racially segregated gym sessions wouldn't be legally allowed? This is why I used the analogy, PC allows on one hand one dicriminating practice but on the other allows doesn't allow a dicriminating practice!

But if woman want to be sexist they can, but if someone wants to be racist they cannot!

Oh and you haven't explained why I am sexist, I guess it was a personal insult after all!

Starfall · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:51

Here's my view on one part of "sexism":

An employer has choice of two 22 year old university graduates, one male, one female both of equal ability. On average which one will be more usefull for the company over a 15 year period, i.e. what will probably happen to one which won't to the other?

I loose out on car insurance because being male i'm more likely to make a claim. It's annoying but I understand and accept it.

On average i will live for a shorter time than females, should i pay less National Insurance?

alexakasloth · 13 Feb 2007 at 11:55

Van_Dammesque said:
Are you delibtraely trying to wind me up?!

Calm down dear, you're getting annoyed at women only swimming classes? Seriously? Their is not much point in debating about it.

Van_Dammesque · 13 Feb 2007 at 12:02

$loth said:
Calm down dear, you're getting annoyed at women only swimming classes? Seriously? Their is not much point in debating about it.

I am not wound up but you contradicted yourself, then called me a sexist for my troubles.

Jofujofu · 13 Feb 2007 at 12:04

Van_Dammesque said:
Why do woman want a woman only session? Embarrassment? They are not embarrassed to swim in front of other women, so it is sexism. What are they implying about men? That we are all drooling maniacs? That we would stand and point and laugh at the fat etc...?

So you think businesses are within their right to allow sexist practices? What about a gym that said whites only, is this racism or just good business practice?

I think it's fair enough that women get their sessions. After all, they are only embarrased of their bodies as a lot of women are insecure about their shape and size.
How is that sexist? I would say that it's helping them out personally, and if it makes them feel comfortable wheres the harm?

Paul

fatiain · 13 Feb 2007 at 12:06

Rich_L said:
Basically you just want unisex changing rooms you dirty perv

Our swimming pool has unisex changing rooms.

DavidMarq · 13 Feb 2007 at 12:15

Van_Dammesque said:
Firstly, it is an analogy to prove my point since you cannot grasp it directly.
Secondly, why is it "completely un-realistic examples"?

Do you not see that your analogy is unrealistic?

Take football for example. Women are not as physically as strong as men, they cannot compete with men on an equal footing. This is not sexism it is an unquestionable difference between the sexes.

Black and white men can compete on an equal footing to deny them the opportunity to do so based on colour would be racist.

The two issues are not the same.

Van_Dammesque said:
But if woman want to be sexist they can, but if someone wants to be racist they cannot!

Are you arguing the racism should be allowed on this basis?

Van_Dammesque · 13 Feb 2007 at 12:15

Jofujofu said:
I think it's fair enough that women get their sessions. After all, they are only embarrased of their bodies as a lot of women are insecure about their shape and size.
How is that sexist? I would say that it's helping them out personally, and if it makes them feel comfortable wheres the harm?

Paul

Should someone's own discriminating insecurities be pandered to?

Your argument is flawed, if they are embarrassed then why do they not feel embarrassment about being in a bikini in front of other woman?

Van_Dammesque · 13 Feb 2007 at 12:24

DavidMarq said:
Do you not see that your analogy is unrealistic?

nope.

Take football for example. Women are not as physically as strong as men, they cannot compete with men on an equal footing. This is not sexism it is an unquestionable difference between the sexes.

Indeed but this is not the same as swimming in a pool for exercise or leisure! where does competition come into play when men are not allowed in the pool for exercise or leisure SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE MEN!?
Do you not see that your analogy is unrealistic?

Black and white men can compete on an equal footing to deny them the opportunity to do so based on colour would be racist.

The two issues are not the same.

We ar enot talking about competition, we are talking abouyt access to leisure facilities, you are using poor analogies that are drifting from the main point.

Are you arguing the racism should be allowed on this basis?

Not at all, I am against sexism.

Jofujofu · 13 Feb 2007 at 12:26

Van_Dammesque said:
Should someone's own discriminating insecurities be pandered to?

Your argument is flawed, if they are embarrassed then why do they not feel embarrassment about being in a bikini in front of other woman?

They obviously feel more comfortable showing there bodies in a room full of equally embarrased women. Why is that a problem?

I don't get how its sexist :confused:

Paul