How can we see the center of *** universe?

malfunkshun · 12 Jul 2007 at 20:45

Woody__ said:
But if the catalyst existed outside of space and time, and thus outside of laws of physics, why shouldn't it be possible to create energy out of nothing in a place where our laws of physics surely wouldn't apply?

But a catalyst would need to exist, however briefly, within our space and time to affect it, surely. Also a catalyst must surely catalyse 'something' pre-existing.
Which comes back to frames of reference. Using the entire universe as our frame of reference, then the catalyst would have come from a different frame of reference, thereby having a source and no new energy is created, only transfered.

THMRK · 12 Jul 2007 at 20:56

malfunkshun said:
But a catalyst would need to exist, however briefly, within our space and time to affect it, surely. Also a catalyst must surely catalyse 'something' pre-existing.
Which comes back to frames of reference. Using the entire universe as our frame of reference, then the catalyst would have come from a different frame of reference, thereby having a source and no new energy is created, only transfered.

Of course I have no answers, and what caused the big bang and where it came from is still subject to a lot of speculation since we can't go right back to the singularity that was the start of the big bang, we can merely go back to "the birth" of the universe from the primordial state. It might never be possible for science to explain what the inital cause was.

malfunkshun · 12 Jul 2007 at 20:58

Woody__ said:
Of course I have no answers, and what caused the big bang and where it came from is still subject to a lot of speculation since we can't go right back to the singularity that was the start of the big bang, we can merely go back to "the birth" of the universe from the primordial state. It might never be possible for science to explain what the inital cause was.

Personally, I think will never is more likely, just more theories that will be adjusted and replaced by newer theories as new entities/energies are realised. All we can ever do is apply the accepted, current thinking to the problem.

cheets64 · 12 Jul 2007 at 21:23

Its where Jesus was born right?

malfunkshun · 12 Jul 2007 at 21:32

No, Jesus was, reputedly, born in a barn. To a woman and, as is insisted, a man who is not his father.

weringo · 12 Jul 2007 at 22:14

What I find fascinating is that if we were able to travel at faster than the speed of light, we would be able to look back in time at Earth.

Also, about the universe not being infinate, what if you got to the current end of the universe and went past it, what would happen? I would be surprised if anyone can answer that.

iCraig · 12 Jul 2007 at 23:10

malfunkshun said:
No, Jesus was, reputedly, born in a barn.

"Jesus, shut that bloody door! Was you born in a barn?!"

"Yes."

"Oh.."

Clinkz · 12 Jul 2007 at 23:45

weringo said:
What I find fascinating is that if we were able to travel at faster than the speed of light, we would be able to look back in time at Earth.

Also, about the universe not being infinate, what if you got to the current end of the universe and went past it, what would happen? I would be surprised if anyone can answer that.

If you can plot me the edge of the universe, i will go there, however it is important that you remember the light from such regions is 13.7 billion years old and relative to our space time frame may not even exist any more. Think on that one

Domo · 13 Jul 2007 at 00:52

Unless I am mistaken, The "Big Bang" was born out of a singularity. Understanding the Big Bang (or Planck epoch) is the easy bit in relative terms.

Trying to figure out what happened before that is where the fun begins.

Big Bang <> t=0.

Mat · 13 Jul 2007 at 08:49

If the universe is infinite and there is roughly 1 hydrogen atom per metre cubed, is it true to say that there is an infinite amount of hydrogen or would that slowly fade out until there is absolutely nothing the further you go?

Haircut · 13 Jul 2007 at 08:51

Mat said:
If the universe is infinite and there is roughly 1 hydrogen atom per metre cubed, is it true to say that there is an infinite amount of hydrogen or would that slowly fade out until there is absolutely nothing the further you go?

The universe isn't infinite though.

There is no edge in 3 dimensions, but it is finite.

Domo · 13 Jul 2007 at 08:55

Mat said:
If the universe is infinite and there is roughly 1 hydrogen atom per metre cubed, is it true to say that there is an infinite amount of hydrogen or would that slowly fade out until there is absolutely nothing the further you go?

But the universe is finite.

AJUK · 13 Jul 2007 at 09:03

I saw a documentary about this and we have already looked back as far as we can, ultra high resolution telescopes (radio) have looked beyond the formation of the galaxies, beyond the proto galaxies to just after the big bang. If I remember correctly the scientist explained that it is almost impossible to look any further because, according to the big bang theory, there was nothing to look at.

EDIT: Oh, and people are correct, there is no centre.

mauron · 13 Jul 2007 at 18:20

Maybe we all end in a giant black hole & it all starts again

malfunkshun · 13 Jul 2007 at 18:24

mauron said:
Maybe we all end in a giant black hole & it all starts again

I like that idea, eventually its all drawn back into a singularity and the whole process starts again (big crunch theory), but even that would have to have had a start point.

Biohazard · 13 Jul 2007 at 18:28

AJUK said:
I saw a documentary about this and we have already looked back as far as we can, ultra high resolution telescopes (radio) have looked beyond the formation of the galaxies, beyond the proto galaxies to just after the big bang. If I remember correctly the scientist explained that it is almost impossible to look any further because, according to the big bang theory, there was nothing to look at.

EDIT: Oh, and people are correct, there is no centre.

Thats where the LHC comes in, if the standard model hasn't been shown to be incorrect by the time its turned on.

I've read (iirc) that there is evidence pointing to the standard model being wrong.

Tenzen · 13 Jul 2007 at 19:04

There was somethign before the big bang, conciousness (awareness if you like). This expressed itself it is current form - the big bang (and everything now in the universe).

There you are, all sorted. Everything is juut a thought form which has its roots in conciousness.

Things like tables, buildings, man made things etc - were all in someones head, then they were made physical. Same th8ing applies to the universe but on a much much bigger scale than any of us can imagine.

The power of the mind people...often what is right in front of you, is the hardest thing to see.

As an aside, if you go past the big bang you enter the realm of metaphysics - whihc is great creative stuff - just like the big bang

Nash · 13 Jul 2007 at 20:14

Jaffa_Cake said:
Center? The Universe is infinite!

S'not!

Energize · 13 Jul 2007 at 20:34

Concorde Rules said:
Better than this "God Made it" rubbish....

Yes, because the light hasn't reached us yet, so if we overtake it and wait for it to catch up we could see from the start of light, if there wasn't any before?

Speed of Light = roughly is 2.97x10^8 meters per second.

Traveling quicker than the speed of light is E=mc^2, c being a constant I believe?

So atm its not actually possible to travel quicker than light, but if we could behind us we wouldn't see anything (because light can't catch up) and people directly in front wouldn't see anything (due to us overtaking the light before its even moved), if you get what I mean!?

Light to the side of us, hmm, probably be distorted as one eye gets one ray the other gets a different one

But doesn't dark matter cause the rate of the universes expansion to slow down before it starts speeding up again (assuming our universe really is flat)? If so when the expansion slowed down the light would have hit the end of the universe and would have been destroyed.

rare · 13 Jul 2007 at 20:44

I find it all a bit scary if I think about it to much.

A bit like sitting there and realising that one day, you wont be there any more.