How far is this VW thing going to go?
- Thread starter Diddums
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Excellent, I'll put it back on the list then. Can't stand those petrol things.
I'd keep it off the list, but because it's a fairly terrible engine not because you'll be banned from anywhere
Guess I'll be effected!
2 Litre Turbo Diesel CC
Not really depends on your engine there is 500k cars that are affected with this software. At the current time the software is not affecting MOT tests here in the UK only tests in the USA. VAG garages will have a list of cars affected in the next day or so.
I didn't think much of viability of Boris' Ultra Low Emission Zone in 2020 (Euro 3 for petrols, Euro 6 for diesels mandatory) or what it means, until few weeks ago I needed a friend to help me move some stuff from the office back to Kent. We took two trips in his 2001 VW Transporter people carrier thing and then two weeks later he received two fines £250 each for entering the regular London Low Emission Zone (the one that's been running since 2008 and everyone thought it only affected lorries and busses). It turned out LEZ had quiet 2013 update, and Boris now requires Euro 3 from anything registered by DVLA as over 1.2 tones unladen and not listed as "Estate car" in V5.
Trouble of course is - up until late naughties UK market was full of pre-registered vans purchased by fleets straight from factories, then you had other official "grey" imports - dealers were importing basic shell versions through Cyprus and converting them to campers, MPVs, disabled access vehicles with ramps at the back etc, second hand dealers were importing cars from Japan by boatloads, and none of these cars have Euro emission assignments in V5 at first registration. Not because the cars in question were leaving clouds of smoke behind, but because nobody would pay for full homologation. It wasn't required, it wasn't needed. It was just a another field in an old green registration document. Fast forward 11 years and now the smallest of SWB versions of VW Transporter, from 2001, with 7 seats inside gets owned for £500 every time it crosses Bexleyheath on A2 because some ***** up V5 blunder 14 years ago and there is no way to straighten it out or fix it. No Euro 3 in V5, no entry. Same goes for all those imported Hilux Surfs, Shoguns etc. If not estate car in V5, they're screwed.
Ultra Low Emission Zone is happening on 7 September 2020. It's signed. Boris' legacy to the city. If all of those Octavias, Superbs, Leons, Passats and Golfs get slapped with de-classification from Euro 6 as a result of cheating, tens of thousands of people won't be able to enter inner London without penalty?
Trouble of course is - up until late naughties UK market was full of pre-registered vans purchased by fleets straight from factories, then you had other official "grey" imports - dealers were importing basic shell versions through Cyprus and converting them to campers, MPVs, disabled access vehicles with ramps at the back etc, second hand dealers were importing cars from Japan by boatloads, and none of these cars have Euro emission assignments in V5 at first registration. Not because the cars in question were leaving clouds of smoke behind, but because nobody would pay for full homologation. It wasn't required, it wasn't needed. It was just a another field in an old green registration document. Fast forward 11 years and now the smallest of SWB versions of VW Transporter, from 2001, with 7 seats inside gets owned for £500 every time it crosses Bexleyheath on A2 because some ***** up V5 blunder 14 years ago and there is no way to straighten it out or fix it. No Euro 3 in V5, no entry. Same goes for all those imported Hilux Surfs, Shoguns etc. If not estate car in V5, they're screwed.
Ultra Low Emission Zone is happening on 7 September 2020. It's signed. Boris' legacy to the city. If all of those Octavias, Superbs, Leons, Passats and Golfs get slapped with de-classification from Euro 6 as a result of cheating, tens of thousands of people won't be able to enter inner London without penalty?
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Soldato
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Derby & Nottingham are looking in to charging diesel engines vehicles £12.50 a day to enter there city's. Not that I think it will happen, it would kill the city's trade
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Soldato
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I think we it doesn't help when the media cover what a former science adviser says, that diesels are killing people. They really are getting a bad rep at the moment...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34407670
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34407670
[TW]Fox;28625429 said:
Exactly this. My last three cars have been diesel which has saved me thousands of pounds in fuel over the past 6-7 years.
I know diesel is a dirtier fuel than petrol, but to assume petrol is somehow "clean" is pure BS. My only reason for choosing diesel is to save money, not the environment. And before anyone gets all "how dare you not care", why do they not get an electric car instead of petrol?
I don't think the tech is good enough, yet. Nor is the infrastructure yet quite good enough. When you can get 300 miles off a single charge in a pure electric? I'm in. You've also then got to wonder why the government decided to give a grant to only the first 50,000 purchases. Surely if they're serious about getting the uptake of these firing (I don't seriously think they are), they'd do much more than that.
However when you factor in the environmental cost of the batteries, then again you've got to ask just how clean they are.
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Massively more clean than petrol/diesel.
It's funny how certain people bring up batteries, but not the oil drilling, refining and every other part of the chain.
If you take both from start to end, there's no comparison. Electric is multiple times better. every single stage is more efficient than petrol/diesel.
I also left out the chain of material manufacturing for the cars as well because I didn't think it needed pointing out.
I did not say that they are still not cleaner than combustion engines, I merely stated that given the environmental cost of the cars (of which the batteries are the largest factor), electric cars are not a golden panacea.
I still want one.
EVs are about as good as it gets. Hydrogen has more drawbacks than electric TBH, though it's early days for that tech yet so a lot could change.
The next five years should see truly practical, reasonably priced EVs hit the market. Range is slowly being conquered, as are charge times.
The next five years should see truly practical, reasonably priced EVs hit the market. Range is slowly being conquered, as are charge times.
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Excellent, I'll put it back on the list then. Can't stand those petrol things.
Would it be a problem for you if your car was banned from major cities? What about if there was a 12.50/day fine instead? In the absence of a crystal ball, I wouldn't go making such a big decision based on what others think is likely.
I'd hold off until this whole episode has blown over TBH. A few months down the line we'll all have a better idea as to the lasting impact of this scandal.
Soldato
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Sorry I haven't read any posts in this thread...
I'm starting a new job on Monday and the company car selection is Audi, vw, skoda, seat and I think Vauxhall.
If I get a skoda superb diesel and if turned out the emissions have been forged then I'm assuming vw will compensate the government tax overlords directly. I shouldn't have to pay for the sneaky German tricks
I'm starting a new job on Monday and the company car selection is Audi, vw, skoda, seat and I think Vauxhall.
If I get a skoda superb diesel and if turned out the emissions have been forged then I'm assuming vw will compensate the government tax overlords directly. I shouldn't have to pay for the sneaky German tricks
This is a completely unhelpful comment that is typically Labour – they caused the mess and now they are happy to sit on the sideline rubbing salt into the wounds. Lovely.
The Labour government created a UK car market that is obsessed with diesel by shaping the taxation system around CO2 output and maintaining some of the worlds highest fuel prices. The manufacturers then responded to this increased demand by developing more and more diesel cars to satisfy it.
On the day Labour took power, the vast majority of executive car ranges were almost entirely petrol powered. Some models had no diesel available at all. On the day they left power, the complete opposite was the case. They created this. Not the consumer. The consumer simply responded in the expected way – exactly as they were intended to.
NOX isn’t some sort of new knowledge. It has always been known that NOX is a bad thing, yet the government instead prioritised CO2 and rammed it down everyones throat as if it was the only thing that mattered and shaped buyer behaviour as a result.
Many of us have always said this was the wrong call but it was the call that was made and millions of motorists now drive diesel cars. Whilst you can try and slowly change this in the future through new car regulation what you absolutely cannot do is punish everyone who simply did what they were told by crucifying everyones car residuals with continual ‘oooh we might ban them’ rubbish.
It’s especially rich to hear former Labour government staff coming out and saying ‘Yea, this is bad’. What next, Gordon Brown saying ‘Yea, we ruined the economy’
I drive a diesel car. I do not like diesel cars. I do not need the efficiency they provide me with. I would rather drive a petrol car. But I don’t have one because the work Labour and the rest of the EU did whilst in power created a market where for the model of car I wanted to buy, 99% of them are diesel and unless you get very lucky or factory order a brand new one you can simply not easily find a petrol car in the specification I want.
Create a world of high fuel prices and random CO2 taxation and you get a world full of diesel cars. Look at a world where there is no CO2 based taxation and low fuel prices – like, I dunno, the USA and… oh, you have hardly any diesels..
BTW, we are closing the stable door after the horse has bolted anyway – the damage diesel does is in the past in terms of new cars (Ok, hi VW). Euro 6 standards are sufficiently tough as to have massively improved the situation and any new car sold today MUST be Euro 6 compliant. The issue is the older diesel cars – an issue that will go away on its own as these cars go out of service.
Which for a typical diesel won’t be long as nobody wants to shell out thousands of quid to fix all the junk fitted to them once they hit 8 years old anyway.
The interesting thing is all of this has almost nothing to do with the VW thing anyway which it seems the vast majority of people have not bothered to understand, hence some of the comments in this thread.
There is no 'Will Volvo XC60's be banned from towns' scandal to wait to blow over so you may be waiting a while. People have randomly linked stuff - the VW thing is totally unrelated to banning cars from towns.