How has skiing changed in 25 years?

jsmoke

jsmoke

jsmoke

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Went a few times at school, skiing holidays etc. After a quick search it seems we've gone from straight skis to shaped skis requiring a different technique?

How different a technique would this be, would you likely just be able to jump back into it or would you need lessons etc. Apart from shaped skis I can't imagine much else has changed?
 
Apart from the bright coloured clothing, additional new things like Snowboards, Skiboards, Snowblades, short skis and the introduction of harder coded runs, and the prices being much much higher for absolutely everything, the majority is the same.

If anything, you will find modern skis easier, smoother but also a lot faster.

However won't harm to jump in and have a refresher lesson, then just do some free sessions before going away.
 
jsmoke said:
Went a few times at school, skiing holidays etc. After a quick search it seems we've gone from straight skis to shaped skis requiring a different technique?

How different a technique would this be, would you likely just be able to jump back into it or would you need lessons etc. Apart from shaped skis I can't imagine much else has changed?
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Even professional skiiers take 'lessons' and are instructed on how to improve.

A group of 4 of us booked 1 day with an instructor last year in Les Arcs (all been skiing for 5-10 years, 2 weeks a year) and he taught us loads. Small techniques that made a decent difference in turning, moguls, off piste technique etc. Gave us advice on our individual equipment too. Well worth it.
 
When skiing with old straight skis you basically could learn snow plough, step turns and parallel turns (some would skip step)
Modern skis tend to skip the middle stage and go snowplough to parallel

The shaped skis mean you can actually turn without doing either though, thats the point
Carving : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGn62uxnhjg

Step turn : many people don't learn them now, I luckily did and like in this example they are far better than parallel for some slopes, you would never clearly attempt to snow plough turn something like this ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRB9saJqLJc
 
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I've only ski'd on the "new style" skis and as far as I understand the principles are the same, but the newer hour-glass side-cut (and arguably the upturned u profile) provide more grip as they tilt.

As MKW said, modern tuition steps are generally snowplough -> snowplough turns -> plough-parallel turns (start in a snowplough but end parallel) and then parallel turns. So the old style of hopping onto the new edge is gone.

Technique-wise... the old style of ankles together, pivoting and skidding had been replaced with feet at shoulder-width and adding pressure through the inside of your foot (almost like you're pressuring your big-toe of the downhill leg).

As Arsonist implied - there's never a bad time to get lessons, so if in doubt then get lessons when in resort, as they'll always be able to find terrain to get you out of your comfort zone...
 
I really wish someone had preserved my grandads cine film of skiing the Italian/Swiss alps in the 50s or so. Completely different world, completely different equipment and the amount of snow was crazy. I remember watching it as a kid in awe.
 
DereksDontRun said:
I've only ski'd on the "new style" skis and as far as I understand the principles are the same, but the newer hour-glass side-cut (and arguably the upturned u profile) provide more grip as they tilt.

As MKW said, modern tuition steps are generally snowplough -> snowplough turns -> plough-parallel turns (start in a snowplough but end parallel) and then parallel turns. So the old style of hopping onto the new edge is gone.

Technique-wise... the old style of ankles together, pivoting and skidding had been replaced with feet at shoulder-width and adding pressure through the inside of your foot (almost like you're pressuring your big-toe of the downhill leg).

As Arsonist implied - there's never a bad time to get lessons, so if in doubt then get lessons when in resort, as they'll always be able to find terrain to get you out of your comfort zone...
Click to expand...

That's a pity I liked the hopping was like being a pro, maybe I'll find a set of 'old' skis. Hard to believe i'm calling them old.
 
jsmoke said:
That's a pity I liked the hopping was like being a pro, maybe I'll find a set of 'old' skis. Hard to believe i'm calling them old.
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You can still do it, I do it and as mentioned in the video I gave its still a thing for hard slopes, the tips are far fatter though so you have to be a little more careful on catching one tip to another with more extreme turns

The other thing I think we missed is that skis are shorter now so that changes the dynamics

Its probably more technical now, putting the weight on the ski in different places has far more of an effect due to the carve

Other techs have come in to play more such as rocker
 
Not sure have materials now improved ? - like carbon fibre (as for bike frames), since the necked/carving skis, did have poorer transfer of power.
... still have an old pair, when they were taller than you.

Best for maximising ski holiday/tuition benefit, injury avoidance, is some kind of preparation for those muscle groups.
 
jpaul said:
Not sure have materials now improved ?
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materials have changed massively since the original planks of wood...

As I understand, ski technology/design was pretty stagnant for years and years, then snowboarding came along and they developed side-cut, profile shapes and manufacturing techniques, etc. and that rippled back into skiing.

I'm a snowboarder at heart, been teaching it for years, and built my own board in the past - so have a slight idea about that construction and believe skis are similar.

I seem to remember a board is constructed as:
top sheet - plastic sheet with printed graphics
fibreglass mat
wooden core - type of wood (think Poplar is popular), grain-direction and number of pieces depending on cost and flex.
fibreglass mat
Plastic sheet on the bottom (sintered for high-end and extruded for cheaper)

The wooden core is surrounded by a metal edge and there's a vibration-dampening material (sometimes cork) wrapped around the edging too. To add extra "spring" to the board/ski you can get strips of carbon fibre tape on this wooden core, with the placement and direction all down to what flex and characteristics you want.

This is all squeezed and heated together in a press to provide the camber/rocker/hybrid/etc. profile shape. The excess resin is then cut away to follow the metal edging, and thus you have a board/ski.

Some companies have done v weird/creative things with the materials in the past. There was a German company (the name is on the tip of my tongue and it's annoying me, think it begins with a "S") that came up with a weave-layup that basically adjusted the flatness across the board as it flexed along the length. As you carved its edges actually dug down into the snow and gripped more, but if you bent it the other way (such as boardsliding a rail) the edges lifted up, like a boat hull (or Battaleon's TBT). Crazy tech.

Full carbon would be v v v stiff and thus it probably wouldn't be fun or forgiving to bumps/chatter.
 

Is a pretty succinct explanation. The main thing with modern shaped skis is that by tipping the skis on edge, as long as you maintain balance they essentially turn themselves and so the shape of a turn can largely be dictated by how aggressive the tipping is, as demonstrated here by several World Cup racers just doing some free skiing and turn drills.


Edit - actually this one’s better - more slow-mo so you can see the edging (and lack of skidding)

 
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DereksDontRun said:
materials have changed massively since the original planks of wood...

.....

Some companies have done v weird/creative things with the materials in the past. There was a German company (the name is on the tip of my tongue and it's annoying me, think it begins with a "S") that came up with a weave-layup that basically adjusted the flatness across the board as it flexed along the length. As you carved its edges actually dug down into the snow and gripped more, but if you bent it the other way (such as boardsliding a rail) the edges lifted up, like a boat hull (or Battaleon's TBT). Crazy tech.

Full carbon would be v v v stiff and thus it probably wouldn't be fun or forgiving to bumps/chatter.
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Thanks.

um - thinking further - on carbon bike frames (quite a cheap chinese fabrication capacity now), they do succeed in giving flex/compliancy and crank power transfer without too much rigidity ..... Grosjean's carbon fibre shell ... I'm not sure carbons an anathama.


Seems surprising there has been no new board shape following the snowboard ..... on the surfboard front the personal electric hydrofoil I saw the other day on the gadget show - wow!
 
DereksDontRun said:
materials have changed massively since the original planks of wood...

As I understand, ski technology/design was pretty stagnant for years and years, then snowboarding came along and they developed side-cut, profile shapes and manufacturing techniques, etc. and that rippled back into skiing.

I'm a snowboarder at heart, been teaching it for years, and built my own board in the past - so have a slight idea about that construction and believe skis are similar.

I seem to remember a board is constructed as:
top sheet - plastic sheet with printed graphics
fibreglass mat
wooden core - type of wood (think Poplar is popular), grain-direction and number of pieces depending on cost and flex.
fibreglass mat
Plastic sheet on the bottom (sintered for high-end and extruded for cheaper)

The wooden core is surrounded by a metal edge and there's a vibration-dampening material (sometimes cork) wrapped around the edging too. To add extra "spring" to the board/ski you can get strips of carbon fibre tape on this wooden core, with the placement and direction all down to what flex and characteristics you want.

This is all squeezed and heated together in a press to provide the camber/rocker/hybrid/etc. profile shape. The excess resin is then cut away to follow the metal edging, and thus you have a board/ski.

Some companies have done v weird/creative things with the materials in the past. There was a German company (the name is on the tip of my tongue and it's annoying me, think it begins with a "S") that came up with a weave-layup that basically adjusted the flatness across the board as it flexed along the length. As you carved its edges actually dug down into the snow and gripped more, but if you bent it the other way (such as boardsliding a rail) the edges lifted up, like a boat hull (or Battaleon's TBT). Crazy tech.

Full carbon would be v v v stiff and thus it probably wouldn't be fun or forgiving to bumps/chatter.
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And then some, mine have some titanium sections that retain and then return energy after compression in shaped pieces above the top surface, also the core isnt just wood its sandwiched titanium and bamboo
Some also avoid the wood core and go foam (generally it gets bad press), the legendary solomon 1080s were one, that was iirc worked on by the canadian military, my other half has a set of them and they are crazy light

The tech evolves every year thats for sure
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
And then some, mine have some titanium sections that retain and then return energy after compression in shaped pieces above the top surface, also the core isnt just wood its sandwiched titanium and bamboo
Some also avoid the wood core and go foam (generally it gets bad press), the legendary solomon 1080s were one, that was iirc worked on by the canadian military, my other half has a set of them and they are crazy light

The tech evolves every year thats for sure
Click to expand...
yeah, i didn't want to go full geeky and lose the audience...

I'm guessing you're on about Tinatal? which ironically doesn't have titanium in it, i think. mainly aluminium alloy.

I remember years ago Burton's Vapor snowboard had some milled aluminium honeycomb core. "cheap" from what I recall (about £1.5k about 10 years ago)

Almost any material has been tried over the years, from Kevlar instead of fiberglass to metals instead of wood... All depends on the desired outcome, if it's a complete master of 1 job (like a Kessler beast) or claiming eco-credentials...

Even the top-sheets get messed about with, with Never Summer playing with "carbotanium" (carbon fibre weave into the plastic top-sheet) and Mervin manufacturing (Lib Tech and Gnu) messing with bean-derived materials and basalt matting?!?

Signal snowboards used to do a series called "every third thursday" when they just ran with a random idea and made a board, going through the construction and manufacturing. Some were v unique like an all glass board, others were less good/different...
 
Even some weight saving from carbon fibre on piste skis must be a questionable benefit, loosing some crust cutting, straight line inertia,
for something easier to turn, jump-turns in lighter/shorter mountaineering skis is needed, but, they can be tiring on a piste.

If cf means ski is thinner and you can reduce cantilever force, and have foot closer to the edge though.

ski edges - now if you had something that was more resilient to the occasional stone/chipping - that would be good - cobalt ? like drill bits.


Need to find hire shops that allow you to audition different types over a few days.
 
Boarding become the thing the cool kids did for so long it’s now starting to be cool to ski again, although to qualify you have to be a park rat doing backflips or free-rider going full send down some stupidly steep chute whilst getting it all on your go-pro, you don’t get much love on r/skiing for hitting racer turns on a groomer these days lol.
 
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