How important are University tables?

RastaManBob

RastaManBob

RastaManBob

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Joined
30 Dec 2003
Posts
2,254
Hey,

With A-level results tomorrow I really wish I wasn't having to ask this now but here goes...

This academic year I have applied to Universities through UCAS to study Electronic Engineering. I applied to Bristol, Birmingham, Loughborough, Nottingham, Sheffield and Southampton. All places gave me a conditional offer or an interview and following which a conditional offer. Although against what others, including tables, recommended I really felt Birmingham and Nottingham were my favourites.

Come the date at which I had to select my firm choice I could not find a single reason to pick Birmingham against Nottingham, and vice versa. Ultimately I checked the Electronic Engineering tables and put the one which was came out better (Birmingham) as my firm choice - I could think of no other ways to decide.

Fast forward to two nights ago and it dawned on me that the 2007 University league tables were out - I decided I would have a check with the Electronic Engineering table and see how far Birmingham had climbed (Never assume :o ) only to find that now they were not in the top 20 at all - Talk about sending me into a panic attack!

It seems that the Electronic Engineering table has had a complete shake up - Many Universities seem to be in completely different places... Nottingham dropped too however has maintained it's place in the top 20.

My most recent thought is that if I collect my results tomorrow and find I have done well enough to get the necessary grades to get into a University that I may ring up Nottingham and explain the situation to them and hope that it is possible to study Electronic Engineering there. My main question for you people lies here - Is this over kill?

How important are the University tables? Is the fact a University has dropped out of the top 20 enough a reason to change universities (Or consider trying in any case)?

Any advice would be greatly (And I mean greatly) appreciated! As I'm sure you know this is already a stressful time and this is yet another stress I don't need... I s'pose it's taken my mind off of results!

Look forward to reading your comments.

Many Thanks :)

Dan.
 
i think its important to go somewhere you feel comfortable and actally want to go to. but that is not to say that the league table position is irrelevant.

i think it also depends on the job that you want to move into and the circles therin. do you know anyone in your prefered industry who is at a senior level? ask them if poss whether they care about uni tables.

i suspect that most dont, and would instead look at your grades and history, and then afterwards interview performance. but if yours is a highly specialised industry it does sometimes pay to go to the established leaders as this may help get your first job from uni.
 
Make your decision on the content of the course over the university league table IMO. You have to be happy doing your course, as this will help massively in getting a good grade, and this is more important than the name of the university you have gone to.
 
Mohinder said:
Universities need tables as much as anywhere. You can't very well be expected to write leaning on each other's backs all day.
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Taxi!

Seriously though, they arn't particuarly important. I wouldn't of though an employer would pick someone from somewhere just because their university was a few rankings below it. Maybe 15-20 places makes a difference, I'm not sure.
 
Nickg said:
i think its important to go somewhere you feel comfortable and actally want to go to. but that is not to say that the league table position is irrelevant.
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I visited all six places and found that I most comfortable at both Nottingham and Birmingham - Hence my main reason for considering these two above most others. It was only the table (Which has now changed) which swayed the decision... Which is the hard bit to swallow!

Nickg said:
i think it also depends on the job that you want to move into and the circles therin. do you know anyone in your prefered industry who is at a senior level? ask them if poss whether they care about uni tables.

i suspect that most dont, and would instead look at your grades and history, and then afterwards interview performance. but if yours is a highly specialised industry it does sometimes pay to go to the established leaders as this may help get your first job from uni.
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I am not sure about a specific job or anything of that sort of accuracy at the moment and have nobody to ask but when I originally checked the tables (2006 versions) all my choices were in top 20 - Whilst the choices may not be the best in the world they are certainly far from worst. Unsure how much much difference industry would find between Nottingham and Birmingham in terms of how established and respected they are.

Thanks for your input :)

Dan.
 
Dont worry about the general university tables too much, they are mostly set by the PR people. Those that care about them are those that usually bost that their uni is better than X because the tables said so... :rolleyes:

But the individual department ratings are quite accurate, and should be taken into consideration when deciding. After seeing your department, you should also have a walk around the campus, and see if you like it. I loved the Nottingham University campus, which is stunning, but I didnt like the engineering department, so I chose to go to Loughborough University instead, even though it isnt as prestigeous as Nottingham.
I know a few people that declined Oxbridge, because they knew they wouldnt fit in with the type of people who go there. Your choice of university should be a very personal decision, not made by media's favorites this year.
I personally think that the most respected universities are those that are the oldest, and nottingham and birmingham fall firmly into this catrgory. Its not very good for me, but I dont care what other people think!
 
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unless you are doing banking/law/accounting etc then you really dont need to worry too much about league tables.
 
nealw said:
unless you are doing banking/law/accounting etc then you really dont need to worry too much about league tables.
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If you want to do well, its very important for all subjects. As companies def know which university are good and which are. It will affect your career paths.

As above, its not the university as a whole. Its the department tables you need to be looking at.
 
I think it depends...I'm told that for some courses e.g. Law, it's very important to come from the right university in terms of how your prospective employer would feel about you. E.g. Law at Cambridge is going make life easier on the job-hunting side of things rather than going to e.g. Edge Hill University.

For some it doesn't really matter. E.g. I'd heard that because of the doctor shortage people aren't TOO bothered about what uni you went too.
 
AcidHell2 said:
If you want to do well, its very important for all subjects. As companies def know which university are good and which are. It will affect your career paths.

As above, its not the university as a whole. Its the department tables you need to be looking at.
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I have to reluctantly agree, although I'm a year behind the OP in this but I think that although it has to be on personal preference it still affects your outcome by how well ranked the university is. Unfortunately for me I've looked round a few university campuses and I've prefered the smaller ones like Chester and Lincoln over Manchester and Nottingham.

:)
 
They will only matter when you graduate and you are on the milkround. If you have dreams of joining some large multi-national corporate on their graduate scheme, the calibre of the university will matter. If you don't, then fair play!
 
While at this time I do not mind too much where life takes me after University obviously a good, successful job is always a bonus! Birmingham has slipped down both the subject and overall tables and actually not in the top 20 of either... So I s'pose on that count it doesn't fair too well. Whilst Nottingham is still not one of the "best" it still seems the better option than Birmingham.

Just checked the Nottingham website for Clearing info and the course I was looking for is still available as is another one (A joint honours in Maths and Electronics) which I missed first time round but seems very appealing now (Though requires much better grades than simply electronics) - Certainly food for thought!

Many Thanks.

Dan. :)
 
Mr Nice said:
They will only matter when you graduate and you are on the milkround. If you have dreams of joining some large multi-national corporate on their graduate scheme, the calibre of the university will matter. If you don't, then fair play!
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Your right, the University's reputation is very important, unless you do something like engineering, as employers are happy to take anyone since nobody wants to do it! Especially true for electronic/electric engineering. Nottingham university was so desperate when I entered univerisity, that they lowered their entry requirments to CCC for EEE in clearing, Which is a long way from their prospectus requirement of ABB!

But for todays "trendy" subjects, like law, economics, or business related degrees, your university is vital, as there is so much competition for the good jobs, since there are so many graduates. Which is why on average graduate saleries are amung the lowest in these fields.
 
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My advice would probably be to chill out and see what happens tomorrow. The tables are here and there; people read into them what people read into them. If you really could not decide between Nottingham and Birmingham based on anything else, you could just view the table as an alternative to a coin toss.

If there really is that little between them, won’t you be (as) happy at either?
 
Going to a top uni and doing a degree which is world renowned has certainly already helped me lots and I've only just graduated. I had a veyr well paid year in California which I wouldn't have had the opertunity to even apply if the university did not have the reputation.

However, it all quite complex. There are overal university reputations, department repuatations and degree reputations. Some university that overall score well can score low for specific subjects, and vice versa. And the reputation/league table doesn't inidcate teaching quality. At many lesser universities you will get much better quality of teaching and support- this can help you get a better grade, maybe a 1st which would be better than a 2.2 from a uiveristy with a better reputation.


If you aim to do furhter research then a good uni helps a lot. And in this day and age with everyone getting degrees you really need to show youself as being different.
 
RastaManBob said:
While at this time I do not mind too much where life takes me after University obviously a good, successful job is always a bonus! Birmingham has slipped down both the subject and overall tables and actually not in the top 20 of either... So I s'pose on that count it doesn't fair too well. Whilst Nottingham is still not one of the "best" it still seems the better option than Birmingham.

Just checked the Nottingham website for Clearing info and the course I was looking for is still available as is another one (A joint honours in Maths and Electronics) which I missed first time round but seems very appealing now (Though requires much better grades than simply electronics) - Certainly food for thought!

Many Thanks.

Dan. :)
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Of course the irony is that due to supply and demand, the "hardest" courses such as maths, physics and engineering are the ones with the lowest entrance requirements.

Anyway, my advice would be to pretty-much disregard the University tables and decide WHAT you want to study first. Then look at what Universities offer this course, and then look at their individual reputations for this course and compile your shortlist from that. From there you can make the decision (if applicable) whether to apply for the Universities with the best teaching reputations for your subject area or whether to go for the established name, and also factor in things such as social life, living costs, sports facilities. You may find a correlation between Universities general reputations and the reputations for particular courses, you may not.

Unfortunately, HR people at large companies who make decisions on these things are generally pretty thick (if they werent, they wouldnt be in HR) and
will only look at general reputations from things like University tables (which are largely based on how good a University is at getting research grants which ironically doesnt matter a jot to undergrads until they work on their Honours projects and actually get a taste of research involvement).

Hope this isnt too random and rambling and is actually of some use :)
 
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We get the same threads this time of year every year.

Yes, like it or not, red brick unis (higher up the league tables usually) gets more recognition from employers than ex-polys.
 
I would be more worried about getting a new pc tbh.

University tables mean fa to me, i just wanted to go somewhere half decent in a busy area. Hence im off to UWE.
 
Raymond Lin said:
We get the same threads this time of year every year.

Yes, like it or not, red brick unis (higher up the league tables usually) gets more recognition from employers than ex-polys.
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I'm sorry - As I've never had to worry about University before I've not checked these sort of threads and hence did not know...

I think (From what I do know) that both Birmingham and Nottingham are classed as "Red brick" so if thats the case hopefully I'll be okay.

Meanwhile it seems advise suggested is probably best - Wait until tomorrow... Get results... Decide if I'd rather a different course and go for it - We shall see... (Now to find out if employers would prefer a degree in Electronic Engineering to a joint honours degree in Electronic Engineering and Maths or vice versa... Any ideas?).

Many Thanks.

Dan.
 
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