I think that realistically the only solution to this are wholly-segregated cycle lanes that can't be used by other vehicles except in emergencies, the reason being that no matter how harsh the law is on this issue there will always be people that don't care or are in emotional states that preclude much thinking about the consequences.
How life pans out
- Thread starter physichull
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 2 Apr 2009
- Posts
- 5,768
- Location
- Location, Location!
On every single road in the UK? How on earth is a cycle lane magically going to save someone from a drunk driver who crossed lanes, went though a field and into a garden.
On the face of it he sounds a ******* selfish idiot who deserves everythng that's about to be thrown at him.
But I also have in mind that we should walk a mile in someones shoes before condemning them. Maybe there were serious issues in his life which caused him to drink heavily and then everything flowed from that, including an affair, addiction, whatever. But on the face of it I can't have much sympathy for anyone who gets plastered and then steps into a car. I do feel sorry for his kids of course. They are just as much victims as the poor cyclist.
But I also have in mind that we should walk a mile in someones shoes before condemning them. Maybe there were serious issues in his life which caused him to drink heavily and then everything flowed from that, including an affair, addiction, whatever. But on the face of it I can't have much sympathy for anyone who gets plastered and then steps into a car. I do feel sorry for his kids of course. They are just as much victims as the poor cyclist.
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Mar 2010
- Posts
- 11,373
- Location
- Bucks
Sounds like a stand up guy.
I think different people react differently to anger. No matter how angry I am I would never get behind the wheel of a car since I would think about the consequences [not necessarily to someone else, but to me]. I have got a lot better at controlling my anger, and that has come with time. But I think some people see red and lose all perspective. These are also the kinds of people who should have their licence permanently revoked.
Absolutely agreed. OP says this man's behaviour was miles away from what he was like at school, but the train of events seen here hints at a load of earlier difficulties which were probably playing out at school, affected him later in life, and led him to take certain decisions which had disastrous and fatal consequences.
This only covers you up to the point where you got into a car when you were drunk and killed a guy.
If you're a **** human and damage the lives of those around you then thats horrible but ultimately people have free will and can get away from you/cut you out of their lives at some point. When you kill someone through your actions then all bets are off. No sympathy. People who kill someone by driving like a **** should have the book thrown at them. A car is a very lethal weapon and this idea that just because you didn't want or mean to kill someone shouldn't take away from the fact that A) you did and B) that what you were doing was fantastically dangerous and likely to result in someones death eventually.
No doubt he will get a few years in prison and the family of the dead man will be broken forever. Seems fair. Its OK though, he didn't mean to kill him and who could have foreseen than driving a few tonnes of metal at speed when you are drunk might kill someone.
I fully empathise with someone going through that much stress to completely throw any sense and consideration for others out the window. Especially if it was someone basically 'cracking'
But also. You are responsible for your actions and drink driving is a choice. He could heavy smashed something up, gone for a walk etc. I can understand how you could do what he did. But you are aware of what you are doing. You should face the consequences.
If he's a decent guy he'll now live with that forever legally and emotionally and the cyclist is gone with the impact on their family.
But also. You are responsible for your actions and drink driving is a choice. He could heavy smashed something up, gone for a walk etc. I can understand how you could do what he did. But you are aware of what you are doing. You should face the consequences.
If he's a decent guy he'll now live with that forever legally and emotionally and the cyclist is gone with the impact on their family.
Soldato
- Joined
- 2 Jul 2019
- Posts
- 2,633
I point the finger at alcohol. Repeatedly this drug causes people to do things that are "out of character". You can argue many use alcohol responsibly ofcourse, but unfortunately alcohol is the direct cause of more than 2 lives being destroyed or wrecked here. Unfortunately this kind of thing we have to live with if alcohol is deemed okay. Just like how cars are extremely dangerous but most use them safely.
Accident is an accident. Changing drinking laws will do little, but still welcomed from me too. I'm not really a fan of alcohol, but riding on the road is something i despise, and i ride a lot.
I wouldn't want to be the one sentencing the guy, but i take note that he is a paramedic, so has done some good in his life at least.
Accident is an accident. Changing drinking laws will do little, but still welcomed from me too. I'm not really a fan of alcohol, but riding on the road is something i despise, and i ride a lot.
I wouldn't want to be the one sentencing the guy, but i take note that he is a paramedic, so has done some good in his life at least.
Different people react differently to alcohol. Some get happy and more animated, some get tired, some get argumentative, some get more relaxed, some hardly change. That's one of the big problems with it, it affects people differently and unpredicatably.
I'm not sure how Pestilence meant it - whether by taking control he meant the events and circumstances that ended up in drinking and then this or the decision on the day to drive while drunk.
I'm not suggesting anyone in here is saying that. Thats basically what the law says on the matter. It baffles me that killing someone by driving in a way that is likely to result in a crash and therefore has a high likelihood of someones death is treated so lightly in the eyes of the law.
I've had the most near misses on a 5 mile cycle lane near me which I rarely use... They are too narrow, pedestrians step out into it without looking and it stops and starts in awkward locations creating danger points with cars. I always prefer travelling with cars and being seen as another (slower) moving vehicle. The expectation is that other drivers on the road are sober. I say this as someone who is 1 month into recovery from a road cycling accident that landed me in hospital for a few days, one which is filled under **** happens.
I think some people are missing the OP's main point, which is how someone we can know for years can do something so drastically unexpected and seemingly out of character.
We think we know some people but there is so much that goes on behind closed doors that we don't see or could ever comprehend, and most often an anecdotal account from the main party will be very subjective and one-sided.
We think we know some people but there is so much that goes on behind closed doors that we don't see or could ever comprehend, and most often an anecdotal account from the main party will be very subjective and one-sided.
I mean you could argue that from the other end and say he should know how to handle pressure with all that experience.
Depending on what he's had to witness over the last 18 months though it could be a factor.
Pretty much bang on.
Its a shame that it doesn't apply to all. All I've seen the last few days is videos of how "great Jack Grealish is" or how is he such a "nice guy". This world where people idolise people like that - bonkers.
In the future people will probably look back and gasp that you could get into a car and start it drunk.
I can only hope that technology finds a way to detect if someone is unsuitably fit to be in control of a one ton killing machine.
RIP cyclist and thoughts to their family, I don't know how you handle getting news like that, chills me to the bone.
I can only hope that technology finds a way to detect if someone is unsuitably fit to be in control of a one ton killing machine.
RIP cyclist and thoughts to their family, I don't know how you handle getting news like that, chills me to the bone.
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2008
- Posts
- 10,120
- Location
- Burscough
I've not been dramatically or mentally affected by this news, so its not really a pick-me-up kind of thread....it was more just reflecting on the fact that often its just seconds that change peoples lives forever.
I don't in my heart of hearts believe that this person is evil, or indeed reckless, and just for the record, I don't know all the personal circumstances other than the bullet points I posted originally. So it would be harsh to make judgements into his character, really. I have no doubt that he will be as devastated by this as anyone else.
I've been watching a few prisoner interviews / documentaries lately and oftentimes the people concerned are not unconscionable people at all. They are measured, calm, reflective and truly sorry for their crimes, and what strikes me the most is that all it takes is one single momentary lapse of concentration or reasoning, mere seconds of their life, and everything changes in an instant. I just can't wrap my head around that.
Its like we often hear of fighting in city centres on nights out, this happened (pre-covid!) week-in week-out, but all it takes is one punch and lives are changed forever.
I don't in my heart of hearts believe that this person is evil, or indeed reckless, and just for the record, I don't know all the personal circumstances other than the bullet points I posted originally. So it would be harsh to make judgements into his character, really. I have no doubt that he will be as devastated by this as anyone else.
I've been watching a few prisoner interviews / documentaries lately and oftentimes the people concerned are not unconscionable people at all. They are measured, calm, reflective and truly sorry for their crimes, and what strikes me the most is that all it takes is one single momentary lapse of concentration or reasoning, mere seconds of their life, and everything changes in an instant. I just can't wrap my head around that.
Its like we often hear of fighting in city centres on nights out, this happened (pre-covid!) week-in week-out, but all it takes is one punch and lives are changed forever.
I've seen videos of people not concentrating as they step into the road and then getting wrapped round the wheel of a lorry.
The problem can be with the day-to-day activities that we do so often and stop paying attention to.