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    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

How many of you are going to get a Broadwell-E CPU?

Broadwell-E is very tempting, though I don't know if the next tock next year is gonna be worth it. I don't have faith in Zen doing any more than just keeping up with Skylake (at best). Really, the question boils down to: do I want to go smaller in case size or not? If I do, and kinda leaning towards it, then I'll probably just wait for Kabylake. As it stands, getting a fancy cpu like 5960x+ isn't necessarily a bad spend since you can keep it for many years and get good performance out of it, but it isn't that great either since gaming doesn't require that much & DX12 looks to level CPU demands even further.

Of course, for demands other than gaming the equation changes a bit. Not for me tho.
 
Businesses that are not 'greedy' tend not to do very well or go out of business. I take it you don't own any company shares? If so how would you feel at an share holder meeting if the ceo came on stage and said that there would be no dividend this year as the company thought it should just sell its product cheap despite there being no competition because some people were moaning on an internet forum!

I have been in this game long enough to remember when amd launched the fx51 cpu for $733 12 years ago!

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...d-the-world-amds-64-bit-fx-51-ten-years-later

Adjusted for inflation that's about $957 in 2016 dollars the 5960x is sold by Intel for $999.

Amd were pretty much as 'greedy' as Intel when they had the technological edge its just that they lag behind now and so cant sell their products for premium prices.. Or do I take it that you would have no complaint if Intel dropped the 5960x price by $42? And remember when Amd were selling that CPU Intel where relatively more competitive on performance than Amd are now compared to Intel

It's something more than simply looking after shareholders. Businesses without shares will also try to bite as much profit as humanly possible. It's inherent in the human system. Intel can't hide behind the shareholder's argument on this one, neither can AMD.
 
I really do wish people would get of the lets blame Intel bandwagon

A bit of Nostalgia courtesy of wayback…

http://web.archive.org/web/20031220161246/http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/amd_64_bit.html


The FX51 costing £499.95 (£587.44 inc vat at 17.5%) in December of 2003

At the time the the $/£ conversion rate was trending a relatively generous $1.72 / £

https://taxfreegold.co.uk/2003forexrates.html

Plug £499.95 into an inflation calculator and in 2016 £ that’s £727.77

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...tion-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html

add vat (now at 20%) and you get £873.32 or so

The 5960X sells for £869.99 OEM or £899.99 retail currently on OCUK

$/£ conversion rates are currently a much less generous 1.41 $/£ (source google)

Blame inflation, blame VAT going up by 2.5%, blame the $/£ conversion rates but don’t just rant about it all being Intel’s fault that you have to pay the best part of £1000 for their current top end CPU because this sort of price level has been the case for well over a decade now (I remember the 90’s when even a basic computer was prohibitively expensive for a lot of people)

The other common complaint is that Intel are not increasing the performance generation on generation like they used to. This is a myopic approach for at least three reasons

1) It ignores the realties of physics that we are approaching the limits of what current silicon based CPU’s can achieve 5nm may be feasible for mass production but whether its commercially viable is yet to be seen. As we approach the limits of what the technology has achieve each increment has become increasingly more difficult and expensive to achieve.

2) There is also the reality that silicon just can’t support the massive increases in per core clock speeds that we have seen in the past. Performance gains for most of the history of CPU’s have relied upon the core speed of the processors being ramped up from a few MHz to 4+Ghz. Intel had originally hoped that its Pentium 4 Netburst CPU’s would hit 10Ghz + . They actually topped out at 3.8Ghz and we have not seen significant increases in per core clock speeds since the toasty 90nm Prescott CPU was released in February of 2004. IPC has improved in leaps and bounds since but again this is going to be subject to a degree of diminishing returns. CPU’s have more cores now of course but its not as simple to utilise more cores to improve performance compared to the performance jump that a simple increase in per core clock speed generates. Some tasks of course inherently cant benefit from more parallel computing and require the fastest single core performance to show good results.

3) and finally it ignores the reality that we a long time ago passed the point where the computing power of a CPU generated meaningful returns in terms of general use and productivity. Even the lowliest of desktop CPU’s is now ‘powerful’ enough for most uses. The emphasis has therefore rightly shifted to power consumption and incorporation of more functions (i.e. iGPU) onto the CPU die as the trend is to increasingly mobile devices.

So in summary I find the frequent diatribes against Intel on this forum and others to be poorly informed and misguided.

I neither work for Intel or hold shares in them of any linked company. I have had plenty of AMD CPU’s in the past when they were competitive and would love to see AMD become competitive and profitable again as although a duopoly is not great its preferable to a monopoly
 
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Your post I was referring to read....



This was in response to someone saying that you could not blame Intel as they have no (effective) competition at most levels I the CPU market.

You seem to suggesting that Intel have a 'responsibilty' to sell you what you consider a suitably powerful cpu and a price you deem to be reasonable.

I merely pointed out that Intel are a publically listed company whoose aim like all successful businesses is to make the largest return for their investors.

For what its worth I think Intel have actually shown considerable restraint and corporate responsibility of late given their effective monopoly position

You're inferring a lot from a 9 word question there. The point was that people claim it's AMD's fault for the actions intel chooses to make.

Intel is responsible for all the choices it makes, end of.
 
You're inferring a lot from a 9 word question there. The point was that people claim it's AMD's fault for the actions intel chooses to make.

Intel is responsible for all the choices it makes, end of.

The only choices Intel have to make relate to how to maintain a sustainable optimised profit whilst staying within the law.

They don't exist to keep what is in reality a small percentage of their workforce (home computer enthusiasts) happy and the expense of their bottom line.

As I've shown when AMD had the technical edge they charged the same sort of money Intel charges now for their flagship products
 
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Businesses that are not 'greedy' tend not to do very well or go out of business. I take it you don't own any company shares? If so how would you feel at an share holder meeting if the ceo came on stage and said that there would be no dividend this year as the company thought it should just sell its product cheap despite there being no competition because some people were moaning on an internet forum!

I have been in this game long enough to remember when amd launched the fx51 cpu for $733 12 years ago!

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...d-the-world-amds-64-bit-fx-51-ten-years-later

Adjusted for inflation that's about $957 in 2016 dollars the 5960x is sold by Intel for $999.

Amd were pretty much as 'greedy' as Intel when they had the technological edge its just that they lag behind now and so cant sell their products for premium prices.. Or do I take it that you would have no complaint if Intel dropped the 5960x price by $42? And remember when Amd were selling that CPU Intel where relatively more competitive on performance than Amd are now compared to Intel

Haha Gordon Gekko Lives!
 
Businesses that are not 'greedy' tend not to do very well or go out of business. I take it you don't own any company shares? If so how would you feel at an share holder meeting if the ceo came on stage and said that there would be no dividend this year as the company thought it should just sell its product cheap despite there being no competition because some people were moaning on an internet forum!

I have been in this game long enough to remember when amd launched the fx51 cpu for $733 12 years ago!

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...d-the-world-amds-64-bit-fx-51-ten-years-later

Adjusted for inflation that's about $957 in 2016 dollars the 5960x is sold by Intel for $999.

Amd were pretty much as 'greedy' as Intel when they had the technological edge its just that they lag behind now and so cant sell their products for premium prices.. Or do I take it that you would have no complaint if Intel dropped the 5960x price by $42? And remember when Amd were selling that CPU Intel where relatively more competitive on performance than Amd are now compared to Intel

Even more recently AMD tried to sell FX9590 for £800 until it became clear nobody was stupid enough to buy it, those few that did got seriously burned by AMD when the price was suddenly cut by 75%.

Some people just believe that the sun shines out of AMD's bottom when really they are just a failing business doing whatever they can just to get sales at this point, even if that means throwing everything but the kitchen sink in with their products feature-wise and wafer thin margins.
 
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You're inferring a lot from a 9 word question there. The point was that people claim it's AMD's fault for the actions intel chooses to make.

Intel is responsible for all the choices it makes, end of.

Intel's choices are heavily based around the competition, if AMD were not such a big failure at the moment then Intel's choices would be far fewer. The goal of businesses is to make as much money as possible, that's what AMD are doing also it just so happens they are being unsuccessful at it which some choose to perceive as them being some sort of peoples' champion.
 
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