How much for a website?

[Mickey]

I think everyones seriously over estimating prices. There's a lot of progrramers who will work for a lot less to add to there portfolio or as they only do it part time. This is a very easy website to build. Most designers will already have the code and would be able to knock this out in a few hours. Most spent on graphical design not coding.

There's a good forum, for website programmers. But can't remember what it's called.

People are giving the prices they'd personally charge, sure he could find someone inexperienced who'd do it for less, but this often just costs more in the long run by having to pay again to get it done properly. I don't know anyone worth using who started off by working cheaply just to get some portfolio work, I certainly didn't.

Also, just because someone has the code already done doesn't mean they're going to give it to you for free. Charging only for the new development is the worst possible way of working, doing that you endup earning less as you get more experience, not more as you should do.

 

[Glaucus]

Also, just because someone has the code already done doesn't mean they're going to give it to you for free. Charging only for the new development is the worst possible way of working, doing that you endup earning less as you get more experience, not more as you should do.

No they just reserve the copyright, so they can use the code for other websites they make.

You can get perfectly good sites, if you don't mind them reselling the layout/code to other people. As I said there's a forum with thousands of programmers all around the world. which will quote you. There not inexperienced. They just know hoe to re-use code and layouts. You can also get them from other countrys and so have a good exchange rate.

We are not talking high level websites here. This is a very basic website.

 

[Mickey]

No they just reserve the copyright, so they can use the code for other websites they make.

You can get perfectly good sites, if you don't mind them reselling the layout/code to other people. As I said there's a forum with thousands of programmers all around the world. which will quote you.

We are not talking high level websites here. This is a very basic website.

Show me these developers, I'll just subcontract all my work, I'll be rich I tells ya!!!

Tell me, how exactly does reserving the copyright but not charging anyway make these guys any money?

 

[Glaucus]

Show me these developers, I'll just subcontract all my work, I'll be rich I tells ya!!!

Tell me, how exactly does reserving the copyright but not charging anyway make these guys any money?

They do charge.

I can't I've forgotten the website. Someone else will post it I'm sure. It's been posted before.

 

[Mickey]

They do charge.

I can't I've forgotten the website. Someone else will post it I'm sure. It's been posted before.

Right so they are re-charging for existing work then...but they just don't bother to charge market rates? That fills me with confidence.

EDIT:
Another point, you seem to think web designer and web developer are interchangable titles, it's very rare to find a good designer who is also a good developer. You're much better off using two (or more) people, whether they work as one entity or you have to deal with both separately.

 

[Glaucus]

Right so they are re-charging for existing work then...but they just don't bother to charge market rates? That fills me with confidence.

yes re-charging for existing work, knocks the price down instantly. Then you can hire people from abroad. Also knocks the price down as the £ is so strong. But don't let me get in your way.

Most companies want the right for the code, layout and design.. This is not need for the op. The op only needs rights to any pictures/writing.

There is no market rate for website design. It completely depends what you want, who you go with and what rights you want.

But I won't try and change your mind.

 

[Mickey]

yes re-charging for existing work, knocks the price down instantly. Then you can hire people from abroad. Also knocks the price down as the £ is so strong. But don't let me get in your way.

Re-charging for existing work only knocks the price down significantly when you're working with an economy of scale which is outside the reach of the majority of individuals.

Hiring people from abroad, not generally an option to the UK indvidual, even large organisations find it difficult outsourcing work. I make a large percentage of my living re-developing badly designed and/or implemented systems by foreign companies.

Most companies want the right for the code, layout and design.. This is not need for the op. The op only needs rights to any pictures/writing.

When I develop, the company doesn't usually get the right to any code, I still charge my full rate for the whole product though. Either hourly or based on a fixed price job calculated at the start.

There is no market rate for website design. It completely depends what you want, who you go with and what rights you want.

What a load of bull, of course there are market rates, different levels depending on the level of experience and how good a salesman you are, but there are definite market rates which you can expect to pay.

Now personally, I deal with this business all day long. I'm not so sure "A measly shovel technician." gets the same sort of exposure to the web design/development business. In my experience, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

 

[Glaucus]

Now personally, I deal with this business all day long. I'm not so sure "A measly shovel technician." gets the same sort of exposure to the web design/development business. In my vast experience, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

seeing as these people are independent they don't charge company prices, I might be a shovel technician but I can build websites and I know a lot about it. Seeing as i was going to be my career. Before I decided I didn't want to sit in front of a computer all day.

Like everything. you get what you research. Not what you pay for. I could pay 10grand for a website and it be crap. Or I could research and find someone good and delivers what I want and get charged 500 for essentially the same thing.

it's an option for the OP to research if he doesn't want to spend big bucks. Which by the sounds of it, he doesn't.

Oh and Plenty of big companies outsource to abroad. It means they get 24hr programming. Cheaper labour and the customer doesn't even know.

 

[Mickey]

seeing as these people are independent they don't charge company prices, I might be a shovel technician but I can build websites and I know a lot about it. Seeing as i was going to be my career. Before I decided I didn't want to sit in front of a computer all day.

Like everything. you get what you research. Not what you pay for. I could pay 10grand for a website and it be crap. Or I could research and find someone good and delivers what I want and get charged 500 for essentially the same thing.

I'm independent, I am friends and work with many other independent designers and developers, aswell as working with larger companies.

The only people I know who charge the rates you're claiming really aren't worth bothering with. You find me someone who can regularly do for £500 the work a decent developer would do for £10k to the same level and i'll give you a £5k finders fee. Go go go.

 

[Glaucus]

I'm independent, I am friends and work with many other independent designers and developers, aswell as working with larger companies.

The only people I know who charge the rates you're claiming really aren't worth bothering with. You find me someone who can regularly do for £500 the work a decent developer would do for £10k to the same level and i'll give you a £5k finders fee. Go go go.

or use a bit of common sense and realise I was over exaggerating?
Had a bad day by any chance?

 

[Mickey]

Oh and Plenty of big companies outsource to abroad. It means they get 24hr programming. Cheaper labour and the customer doesn't even know.

Yes, many big companies do, but they still find it hard to manage. It's not simply a case of canning the UK staff and taking on a team in some far off land.

It's usually the case that they have to spend much more on people in the UK to manage and check the output from the developers.

 

[Mickey]

or use a bit of common sense and realise I was over exaggerating?
Had a bad day by any chance?

Not particularly, I just get tired of hobyist developers who've clearly never worked a day in the industry claiming the same quality of work can be done for ridiculously low prices.

If anyone charging the rates you're talking about is doing it as a legitimate business then I can't see how they're possibly making money.

 

[Glaucus]

Not particularly, I just get tired of hobyist developers who've clearly never worked a day in the industry claiming the same quality of work can be done for ridiculously low prices.

If anyone charging the rates you're talking about is doing it as a legitimate business then I can't see how they're possibly making money.

so $50 an hour using a set layout and code they already have. Alter it and design a new colour scheme and one or two graphics. A few hours work.

Nope can't possibly see how they make money.

 

[Mickey]

so $50 an hour using a set layout and code they already have. Alter it and design a new colour scheme and one or two graphics. A few hours work.

Nope can't possibly see how they make money.

You seem to be totally ignoring the quality side of the argument. Do you really think smashing sites out like that gives a quality product?

Again, why would someone who could charge decent rates for their work choose not to, why would they choose to churn out hundreds of clones of existing sites?

I do know people who do exactly what you're describing, they still charge a weeks work for it though, spend an extra couple of hours customising it and they're well up on the deal.

 

[Glaucus]

You seem to be totally ignoring the quality side of the argument. Do you really think smashing sites out like that gives a quality product?

Again, why would someone who could charge decent rates for their work choose not to, why would they choose to churn out hundreds of clones of existing sites?

Because it's a market, you go high end market others will go low end market. It doesn't relate to being a rubbish site. It's just not exclusive. Same in ever other market. High end PCs and low end PCs that do pretty much identical things. You seem to think there's brilliant websites that are expensive and rubbish websites that are cheap. That's not the case.

> News
> Screenshots
> Downloads
> Faq
> Forum (ideally themed to fit rest of website)
> About
> Buy/Purchase page (could possible use paypal?)

This is hardly a complicated website, even building from scratch wouldn't take a day to code, if using paypal.

 

[Mickey]

This is the only thing that struck me from that post:

even building from scratch wouldn't take a day to code, if using paypal.

Yes it would, to do a good job would take much longer than a day. The fact you think it could be done in a day tells me everything I need to know.

 

[Glaucus]

This is the only thing that struck me from that post:

Yes it would, to do a good job would take much longer than a day. The fact you think it could be done in a day tells me everything I need to know.

Try switching to asp .net and using a pre built forum.

 

[Mickey]

Try switching to asp .net and using a pre built forum.

I do the majority of web development in ASP.NET.

I've worked with people like you before, they're always constantly stressed out trying to meet the impossiblly short development timescales they've given their bosses/account managers when asked how long they need. They normally endup as the guy everyone thinks is rubbish because they never meet their deadlines.

I personally prefer to give realistic timescales and build in a bit of slack, people are happy because the job gets completed on time and in budget. It's also been properly thought out, developed and tested, so it doesn't fall over the instant it's put live.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Get a designer to design, and a developer to develop - but ensure you have them talk to each other during the design phase*. As much as you may be told otherwise, finding one person who can do both well is hard to find.


*As a web developer, one thing I absolutely hate is to be presented with a design that is completely unfeasible for web.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

I do the majority of web development in ASP.NET.

I've worked with people like you before, they're always constantly stressed out trying to meet the impossiblly short development timescales they've given their bosses/account managers when asked how long they need. They normally endup as the guy everyone thinks is rubbish because they never meet their deadlines.

I personally prefer to give realistic timescales and build in a bit of slack, people are happy because the job gets completed on time and in budget. It's also been properly thought out, developed and tested, so it doesn't fall over the instant it's put live.

Offtopic now, but try not giving a deadline at all. Or to be more useful, have set deadlines before you've decided what work will be done, on a regular date (fortnightly or monthly works best) then instead of saying when everything will be done, tell them you'll have "x" amount done. No point lying to make you look good, it'll bite you in the bum when you fail.